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Six Flags America (SFA) Discussion Thread

p. 337 - New Six Flags Hallowfest information!

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^Hey Matt, don't criticise SFA or you will get called a racist.

 

I think it's good some money is going into the park, they seem like modest additions but hopefully there is some other money going into maintenance and staff incentives, which would could make a difference.

 

EDIT: Six Flags Next To Go.

Is that better Brent

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If the were to sell the park, I wouldn’t mind seeing it go to Cedar fair even if it means Batwing gets changed to Nighthawk, Mind Eraser becomes Flight Deck, and Joker's Jinx becomes Steel Venom, plus about 20 or so thousand trash cans come with it too. Their management is at least better than the way Six Flags is managing it now, and they’re really the only chain that would be interested in the park with enough funds to build major attractions and allow a solid future.

 

SFA definitely has the potential to be really awesome, it just needs a little tightening up. Seeing that it's not too close to another park, I could see it becoming a healthy part of the Cedar Fair chain without them ripping it apart and letting other parks pick at the bones for new rides. Although I could imagine they would relocate Batwing just because it's placement in the park makes absolutely no sense and Dorney and Kings Dominion both could use a flyer.

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^^I believe that you, Brent and I determined the park's new name to be Six Flags under Foreclosure back during the Summer, but I truly do believe that with the park's strong management team and a decent load of captial investments, the park has the potential to become a mild success. Though, the road to success isn't paved on speed slides, fanboy trolls and a barrel of hope--the park needs a little more support to survive...

 

Maybe this sounds a little farfetched, but the Clawshun Industries promotion that is going on with Six Flags New England's Superman and Six Flags Great Adventure's Medusa could easily be extended to the park for a new or updated attraction. Just a thought.

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Maybe this sounds a little farfetched, but the Clawshun Industries promotion that is going on with Six Flags New England's Superman and Six Flags Great Adventure's Medusa could easily be extended to the park for a new or updated attraction. Just a thought.

 

I've belived that for a while. The park has to do something to make it worthwile to guests- not just the season passholders.

 

It's been a -very- long time now since some heavy metal was added in the form of a 'large' hard ride- I.E: Coaster, large water Ride (Penguin River Rapids being the last one) and with attractions only open during certain periods, it makes people nuts. (See also: This attraction open from 12PM to 6PM signs on some rides.)

 

Marketing needs to be spread out- not just a few 'gems' in the crown.

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If the were to sell the park, I wouldn’t mind seeing it go to Cedar fair even if it means Batwing gets changed to Nighthawk, Mind Eraser becomes Flight Deck, and Joker's Jinx becomes Steel Venom, plus about 20 or so thousand trash cans come with it too. Their management is at least better than the way Six Flags is managing it now, and they’re really the only chain that would be interested in the park with enough funds to build major attractions and allow a solid future.

 

SFA definitely has the potential to be really awesome, it just needs a little tightening up. Seeing that it's not too close to another park, I could see it becoming a healthy part of the Cedar Fair chain without them ripping it apart and letting other parks pick at the bones for new rides. Although I could imagine they would relocate Batwing just because it's placement in the park makes absolutely no sense and Dorney and Kings Dominion both could use a flyer.

 

Or just pull a Geauga Lake by closing the park down and moving the rides around to other Cedar Fair parks. Superman could go to Kings Dominion as "Mediocre Generic Hypercoaster", Batwing to Dorney as "Nighthawk", Jokers Jinx to Cedar Point as "Possessed Backlot Twisted Coaster," and Penguins Blizzard River to Valleyfair as "Spinning Raft Water Ride."

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And as I said before, this job market is going to help the park. Parks including SFA won't have to take just any kid off the streets to op rides, they can actually have higher standards for their employees.

 

As someone that's looking to hire a qualified person to hire right now, I'm terrified of what I'm seeing come across my desk. Crap resumes. All of the people that are worth anything, aren't leaving their current jobs, unless absolutely necessary. So, I'd say your theory is pretty hopeful, and not very likely.

 

And higher standards means you better expect to give out higher pay. No corporation is going to do that for a 18 year old ride op. It's cost cutting time, not bring in less people for more money.

 

Economics, dude. Read up.

 

I was simply going with the theory that in a tough economic market you would have a larger pool to draw from due to higher unemployment. So rather then being understaffed with bad employees you have a chance of being staffed properly, hopefully with a better workforce...

 

And by "higher standards" I don't mean they should be looking for people with a degree or anything to op rides, I mean that if a kid is a bad op and can't follow the operating procedures then they can be let go as they aren't understaffed with bad workers.

 

 

^Hey Matt, don't criticise SFA or you will get called a racist.

 

Criticizing the park not so much, criticizing the workers and majority of the park guests by calling them ghetto and saying that they make you feel unsafe due to their "ghetto-ness" may result in that.

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If the were to sell the park, I wouldn’t mind seeing it go to Cedar fair even if it means Batwing gets changed to Nighthawk, Mind Eraser becomes Flight Deck, and Joker's Jinx becomes Steel Venom, plus about 20 or so thousand trash cans come with it too. Their management is at least better than the way Six Flags is managing it now, and they’re really the only chain that would be interested in the park with enough funds to build major attractions and allow a solid future.

 

SFA definitely has the potential to be really awesome, it just needs a little tightening up. Seeing that it's not too close to another park, I could see it becoming a healthy part of the Cedar Fair chain without them ripping it apart and letting other parks pick at the bones for new rides. Although I could imagine they would relocate Batwing just because it's placement in the park makes absolutely no sense and Dorney and Kings Dominion both could use a flyer.

 

Or just pull a Geauga Lake by closing the park down and moving the rides around to other Cedar Fair parks. Superman could go to Kings Dominion as "Mediocre Generic Hypercoaster", Batwing to Dorney as "Nighthawk", Jokers Jinx to Cedar Point as "Possessed Backlot Twisted Coaster," and Penguins Blizzard River to Valleyfair as "Spinning Raft Water Ride."

 

Hehehe. Making fun of Cedar Fair names never gets old does it?

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If the were to sell the park, I wouldn’t mind seeing it go to Cedar fair even if it means Batwing gets changed to Nighthawk, Mind Eraser becomes Flight Deck, and Joker's Jinx becomes Steel Venom, plus about 20 or so thousand trash cans come with it too. Their management is at least better than the way Six Flags is managing it now, and they’re really the only chain that would be interested in the park with enough funds to build major attractions and allow a solid future.

 

SFA definitely has the potential to be really awesome, it just needs a little tightening up. Seeing that it's not too close to another park, I could see it becoming a healthy part of the Cedar Fair chain without them ripping it apart and letting other parks pick at the bones for new rides. Although I could imagine they would relocate Batwing just because it's placement in the park makes absolutely no sense and Dorney and Kings Dominion both could use a flyer.

 

After CF got burned by SF in Ohio I doubt that they'd be interested in purchasing another SF park again.

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After CF got burned by SF in Ohio I doubt that they'd be interested in purchasing another SF park again.

 

That statement is weird in several ways.

 

Are you suggesting that Six Flags fooled Cedar Fair into thinking that Worlds of Adventure was a huge money maker? Did Six Flags further assure them that it would still be, even without all of the marine animal attractions from the SeaWorld side of the park?

 

CF didn't get burned. They got exactly what they wanted, and they would buy it again knowing what they know now.

 

So, yes, they certainly would buy another park from Six Flags, if they thought it served their interests to do so.

 

/Remember kids: Cedar Point is Cedar Fair, and Cedar Fair would kill your mom if they thought she was a threat to CP.

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I don't usually speculate which company is going to buy what park, but I do disagree that Cedar Fair is the only company that would be capable of (or have interest in) purchasing and successfully operating SFA if it went up for sale.

 

One other company that immediately springs to mind is PARC Management. They seem to be doing well with the properties they have (most if not all former Six Flags parks, if memory serves), and they're definitely lacking in holdings in the lower southeastern quadrant of the United States (and on the East Coast altogether if you discount Darien Lake).

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I thought about PARC Management too, but what I mean is that Cedar Fair has the funds to build something huge that SFA could really badly use, like a B&M looper or something. While i do agree that PARC Management is capable of running the park well, even if they don't build multi-million dollar rides, i don't think we'll see them purchase another park for a while until they've gotten enough revenue from their other parks first.

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Let's consider the prospects of a sell off for a second.

 

If SFA were to go to another company, it would require a few major changes from the ground up. While the infrastructure has been updated, the park is in need of some serious other changes- not the least of which are new rides, but also better training and better operational standards.

 

In many ways, SFA is a lot like an old car: It still runs, but not well, and with a large investment, it could become a classic someday. SixFlags doesn't belive in pushing forth the amount of money to make a classic; and it's sitting there, languisihing suburbs of Maryland.

 

If I were in control (And mind you, I'd not want that at all...)- I'd start with the employees. Often unmotivated, very often surly, and lazy- they would be my first target of change. Train the crews that they're there to do a job- such as actually OPERATING the rides on a normal par with what a park needs to- and to dump the attitude- and the Cell Phones/Lunch/magazines, etc. Teach them that they are needed- and that the GUESTS are needed. Give them the tools they need to do their job right- such as rides which WORK, and not just sit there waiting for somebody to do something. Get rid of the people who don't want to be there.

 

Second, I'd invest in better rides. Not necessarily 'big' rides, per se, but good ones that draw crowds. Use the rides I had to full capacity- and to make sure they're capable of handling the workload well. Put in smaller rides with moderate capacity to allow overflow from other rides to be dispersed. Update rides that require attention.

 

Third, I'd add a new coaster, or two, even. While the 'biggest and baddest' often draw crowds from all over, a smaller or more unique ride does get attention from all sides. A good B&M standup, akin to Georgia Scorcher, or a Mack Mouse. Add a decent sized Looping coaster. Something- anything- that would be a crowd-pleaser and something that's different.

 

And... I'd update the water park quite a bit. The Last visit I'd made to the water park (Which is rare, I'm NOT a water park person!) they had long lines for EVERYTHING. A good set of higher capacity slides/raft rides/multiperson lane slides, etc. to offset the larger lines. Add more shaded areas for those that burn easily. Increase the amount of general 'play' areas for both kids and adults- and a good rehab of the existing facilities to make things better appearing- and more pleasant.

 

Now, as people are rolling their eyes, and starting to shout-

 

This is MY idea of what needs to be done. Big Bucks? Yup. Lots of Effort? OH yeah. Easy to do? Nope. But if they want a successful park that's not on the black list of many, they need to do it.

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QueerRudie has this thing down. No questions asked.

I don't think Cedar Fair would pick the park up. Maybe, just maybe under the right circumstances. But if this goes up for sale, I don't see anybody taking it with this economy.

 

 

I put my vote on PARC.

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Let's consider the prospects of a sell off for a second.

 

If SFA were to go to another company, it would require a few major changes from the ground up. While the infrastructure has been updated, the park is in need of some serious other changes- not the least of which are new rides, but also better training and better operational standards.

 

In many ways, SFA is a lot like an old car: It still runs, but not well, and with a large investment, it could become a classic someday. SixFlags doesn't belive in pushing forth the amount of money to make a classic; and it's sitting there, languisihing suburbs of Maryland.

 

If I were in control (And mind you, I'd not want that at all...)- I'd start with the employees. Often unmotivated, very often surly, and lazy- they would be my first target of change. Train the crews that they're there to do a job- such as actually OPERATING the rides on a normal par with what a park needs to- and to dump the attitude- and the Cell Phones/Lunch/magazines, etc. Teach them that they are needed- and that the GUESTS are needed. Give them the tools they need to do their job right- such as rides which WORK, and not just sit there waiting for somebody to do something. Get rid of the people who don't want to be there.

 

Second, I'd invest in better rides. Not necessarily 'big' rides, per se, but good ones that draw crowds. Use the rides I had to full capacity- and to make sure they're capable of handling the workload well. Put in smaller rides with moderate capacity to allow overflow from other rides to be dispersed. Update rides that require attention.

 

Third, I'd add a new coaster, or two, even. While the 'biggest and baddest' often draw crowds from all over, a smaller or more unique ride does get attention from all sides. A good B&M standup, akin to Georgia Scorcher, or a Mack Mouse. Add a decent sized Looping coaster. Something- anything- that would be a crowd-pleaser and something that's different.

 

And... I'd update the water park quite a bit. The Last visit I'd made to the water park (Which is rare, I'm NOT a water park person!) they had long lines for EVERYTHING. A good set of higher capacity slides/raft rides/multiperson lane slides, etc. to offset the larger lines. Add more shaded areas for those that burn easily. Increase the amount of general 'play' areas for both kids and adults- and a good rehab of the existing facilities to make things better appearing- and more pleasant.

 

Now, as people are rolling their eyes, and starting to shout-

 

This is MY idea of what needs to be done. Big Bucks? Yup. Lots of Effort? OH yeah. Easy to do? Nope. But if they want a successful park that's not on the black list of many, they need to do it.

 

The park has spent WAY too much time updating the waterpark(simply because it's cost effective) & needs to focus more of it's capital back into the ride park for a good while,it's this imbalance along with poor operations of the rides they do have that led me to give up on the park after years of supporting it in the hopes that things would improve,now that may involve removing unreliable rides of course but Shapiro needs to wake up & realize that when a ride is removed for reliability issues it should be replaced with a new ride & not just wasted green space.

 

One of the main obstacles to the park's chances for improvement is that Shapiro/Snyder promised change when they took over but have so far failed to deliver on that promise,choosing instead to continue many of,if not all of the policies put in place by the previous ownership that have turned the park into the mess that it is today,the most important of all is in playing favorites with which parks get rides every season & which ones don't.

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One of the main obstacles to the park's chances for improvement is that Shapiro/Snyder promised change when they took over but have so far failed to deliver on that promise,choosing instead to continue many of,if not all of the policies put in place by the previous ownership that have turned the park into the mess that it is today,the most important of all is in playing favorites with which parks get rides every season & which ones don't.

 

Could I buy a period in that run on sentence?

 

I believe Shapiro/Snyder have changed SF for the better. A lot of the complaints about several parks have been resolved. There is a better balance across many of the parks. Instead of SFOG, SFOT, SFGAM and SFGAdv getting money, the money has been spent on those parks as well as SFMM, SFDK, SFNE, TGE.

 

For those of you clamoring for CF to takeover the park, why would CF buy another park that is that close to Kings Dominion and depending on who buys BGW, they may have their hands full trying to stay competitive.

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For those of you clamoring for CF to takeover the park, why would CF buy another park that is that close to Kings Dominion and depending on who buys BGW, they may have their hands full trying to stay competitive.

CF would buy the park to then remove the rides side of the park claiming to make it a high quality water park where they would decide not to build any more slides in it?

My assumption is to remove competition from Kings Dominion.

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Let's consider the prospects of a sell off for a second.

 

If SFA were to go to another company, it would require a few major changes from the ground up. While the infrastructure has been updated, the park is in need of some serious other changes- not the least of which are new rides, but also better training and better operational standards.

 

In many ways, SFA is a lot like an old car: It still runs, but not well, and with a large investment, it could become a classic someday. SixFlags doesn't belive in pushing forth the amount of money to make a classic; and it's sitting there, languisihing suburbs of Maryland.

 

If I were in control (And mind you, I'd not want that at all...)- I'd start with the employees. Often unmotivated, very often surly, and lazy- they would be my first target of change. Train the crews that they're there to do a job- such as actually OPERATING the rides on a normal par with what a park needs to- and to dump the attitude- and the Cell Phones/Lunch/magazines, etc. Teach them that they are needed- and that the GUESTS are needed. Give them the tools they need to do their job right- such as rides which WORK, and not just sit there waiting for somebody to do something. Get rid of the people who don't want to be there.

 

Second, I'd invest in better rides. Not necessarily 'big' rides, per se, but good ones that draw crowds. Use the rides I had to full capacity- and to make sure they're capable of handling the workload well. Put in smaller rides with moderate capacity to allow overflow from other rides to be dispersed. Update rides that require attention.

 

Third, I'd add a new coaster, or two, even. While the 'biggest and baddest' often draw crowds from all over, a smaller or more unique ride does get attention from all sides. A good B&M standup, akin to Georgia Scorcher, or a Mack Mouse. Add a decent sized Looping coaster. Something- anything- that would be a crowd-pleaser and something that's different.

 

And... I'd update the water park quite a bit. The Last visit I'd made to the water park (Which is rare, I'm NOT a water park person!) they had long lines for EVERYTHING. A good set of higher capacity slides/raft rides/multiperson lane slides, etc. to offset the larger lines. Add more shaded areas for those that burn easily. Increase the amount of general 'play' areas for both kids and adults- and a good rehab of the existing facilities to make things better appearing- and more pleasant.

 

Now, as people are rolling their eyes, and starting to shout-

 

This is MY idea of what needs to be done. Big Bucks? Yup. Lots of Effort? OH yeah. Easy to do? Nope. But if they want a successful park that's not on the black list of many, they need to do it.

 

Everything on your list would be great and highly needed at the park. In the past there was severe understaffing issues. Leading to rides being closed due to a lack of employees and employees being forced to work much longer then they were scheduled, resulting in bad attitudes. I know I got annoyed when I was supposed to work from 9-4 and didn't get off until 5-6 because people didn't show up to work. However, they are doing job fair events around the park this off season so hopefully they will have a nice large cast of employees all season.

 

 

 

 

For those of you clamoring for CF to takeover the park, why would CF buy another park that is that close to Kings Dominion and depending on who buys BGW, they may have their hands full trying to stay competitive.

CF would buy the park to then remove the rides side of the park claiming to make it a high quality water park where they would decide not to build any more slides in it?

My assumption is to remove competition from Kings Dominion.

 

In this economy I really doubt we would see that happen at this point in time. SFA given how large it is land wise would sell for quite a bit of money, I don't think CF would want to spend that kind of money just to get rid of what little competition SFA holds over KD. The DC area is a huge market and the parks are nearly 2 hours away from each other in normal bad DC traffic. SFA caters more to the Baltimore/DC side of things while KD caters more to the Richmond/VA side of things. My point is the markets the parks are going after are much larger then the market areas around CP/GL.

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^^^ I was just being stupid. I know it's completely unlikely that that would ever happen. Just trying to show how it was a complete waste of money (in my opinion) for CF to do what they did to Geauga Lake. I don't know why i have to explain my un-seriousness about my post but whatever.

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^^^ I was just being stupid. I know it's completely unlikely that that would ever happen. Just trying to show how it was a complete waste of money (in my opinion) for CF to do what they did to Geauga Lake. I don't know why i have to explain my un-seriousness about my post but whatever.

 

GL was messed up long before CF got hold of it,if SFI hadn't screwed it up they never would've wanted to sell it in the first place....speaking of which ever notice that it has been the former premiere parks(with the exception of SFDK & SFNE) that have been neglected in terms of new ride installations?

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KDCOASTERFAN, you really need to check your facts, how about SFNE, TGE, SFDK all were former Premier Park.

 

For those thinking CF should buy SFA and close it, remember they are in just about as much debt as SF. You don't buy parks in markets with 7+ mil people and close the park.

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