What's wrong with Knott's?

[Fredlv1]

I've recently gone to Knott's a few times on my way to Disneyland in the past couple of months, mainly to ride Xcelerator. As much as I like Xcelator, I am really disheartened with how the park now seems to cater to the lowest common denominator, and most of the authentic feel of pre-Cedar Fair Knott's seems to be evaporating.

 

What do you think is possibly the best example of this?

 

For me, the one thing that irritates me like nails on a chalkboard are the stupid, and inspid rider instruction videos they show in the Ghostrider, Xcelerator, and Silver Bullet stations. Is it too much to ask that they at least make these with a little wit?! They are absolutely embarrassing! Do they think these videos are amusing or funny?

 

The miner in the Ghostrider video acts like Goofy but with half the IQ, the 50's riders in Xcelerator video act like they NEVER, EVER rode a single coaster in their life, and the Silver Bullet men look DOA, and IDIOTIC as well carrying their axepicks onto the ride.

 

Then the narrator on Xcelerator's video takes us through the entire CAD ride--"First high banked turn!!! Second high banked turn!!! SmoOOoth Stop!". I cringe every time I see that.

 

Does Knott's think its patrons are such dimwits that they would be even remotely entertained by this stuff? I know it's more for legal and safety purposes, but it all looks so fake, so sophmoric, and so lame. It's not even remotely interesting. I guess its the whole corporate mental at play which is all manufactured/fake versus the family owned mom/pop business which usually feels more genuine.

 

I always said that, as an enthusiast, the best way to determine what a GREAT park is is by one that you could take someone to, someone who does not like parks, but they would still have a great time at and you would not feel embarrassed about your hobby. They are too many things about Knott's that would make me feel embarrassed about my hobby, which did not exist ten years ago.

 

What are some examples of park I could take such a person to and feel proud of my hobby? Cedar Point (what irony!), Disneyland, Dollywood, Holiday World, Hersheypark, Knoebels, Busch Gardens Africa and Europe, Kennywood, and Indiana Beach to name a few.

 

Knott's was on that list in the late 90's, but eventually fell off that list and it now far from it. Knott's now makes me feel embarrassed to be a park/coaster enthusiast. I guess that's why, among many reasons why I no longer enjoy Knott's, but rather would be at Disneyland any day. You can see how Disneyland influenced the creativity of Knott's in the early day, but it obvious Cedar Fair shuns the past traditions of Knott's. Thank God the Knott family made it part of the deal for them not to touch Calico Mine Ride or Timber Mtn Log Ride. I sure Cedar Fair would rather demolish such treasures and replace them with the usual generic blandness.

[CoasterComet]

I've only been there once. It was a year or so after Ghostrider was built, and the park was pretty good then. I even got a ride (only one side I believe) on the Togo goodness of Wind Jammer (that first drop was downright scary, seat drops out from under you).

 

I mean, they have Montezumas - isn't that the bomb? I have a very special place for older Anton/Werner/Intamin rides. Minus the obnoxious seatbelts, isn't that a good reason to visit?

[ginzo]

Although I agree with most of your exegesis on Knott's, I don't understand why you're embarrassed. Do you have anything to do with the decline of the park? Not likely. The solution is to just not go there anymore. Give your money to good parks instead.

 

One thing that frustrates me about Cedar Fair parks is that they make people think that all roller coasters beat the hell out of you. My local park is Kings Island. I can't even begin to tell you how many people have told me they don't like roller coasters anymore based on their experiences with rough rides at Kings Island. Their story is always the same: "I used to like roller coasters when I was younger, but I just can't take the beating anymore." I also hear a lot of complaints about the restraints on newer coasters.

[KrakenKing]

That's the thing, most GP ARE that stupid that they need these videos. Universal has them on all their rides with stupid looking characters. Does it make me hate the park or make me embarrassed to ride the ride? No.

 

The world today, people think they're inclined to do anything they like as long as they payed to get into it. I goes "Hey, I paid to get in here! I should be able to do whatever I want!". That leads to trash everywhere, line cutters, and people trying to bring items or do something stupid on the rides.

 

If it makes you embarrassed to ride coasters, maybe you should stop and pick a new hobby. Or as stated before, don't go to that park anymore.

[ebl]

Stupid videos are the least of Knotts' problems.

 

I enjoyed going there more back in the '70s than I do now. Why? Atmosphere. To me, the park was always somewhere right in between Disneyland and SFMM. Not just geographically, but in terms of what it offered.

 

There were a few thrills, but their theming was quite good. The park had some charm. For instance, the now-gone models of the California missions. Reflection Lake, which, sadly, is a mere reflection of itself. Knott's was a very different place when there weren't coasters zooming overhead everywhere you looked. Ghost Town felt like an old Western ghost town.

 

It appears that SFMM has learned its lesson and will be focusing more on family rides. Knott's needs to re-evaluate itself, but that won't happen under Cedar Fail.

 

Eric

[Dleo]

I wonder if people actually notice the stupid videos. I am amazed when I see people boarding the train and they are acting more clueless than the characters in the videos. I get more embarrassed for them when it seems like they have never ridden a coaster before.

[Fredlv1]

You know, the videos are just a clear example of how lame-brained corporate mentality is eroding away the atmosphere at Knott's and is catering to the lowest common denominator.

 

However, I agree, it's really the least of Knott's problems. I think with addition and placing of Silver Bullet and Sierra Sidewinder they totally ruined what was once one of the most beautiful areas of any park with Reflection Lake. Now the area seems litered with and endless amount of pillars from SB, SS, Jaguar, and Monty.

 

I know budgets are a concern but perhaps theming Sierra Sidewinder to a small mountain (like in their logo) could have at least added some beauty to the area and cleaned up/prevented pillar pollution. The area around those coasters is seriously hideous.

 

It even more puzzling that Cedar Fair would allow Knott's to appear in such a manner when they know how to operate and maintain Cedar Point, or least make a very pleasant atmosphere around the park and keep things lively. Every time I go to Knott's I always feel tired. I think its because the energy there feels DEAD.

 

Considering the market Knott's sits in, I cannot see how they can't increase their attendance numbers by sprucing up the place and adding some real excitement (atmosphere, not necessarily thrill rides). They might attract back their old clientele, you know, the ones who actually gave a damn about quality, good customer service, atmsphere, class, and orginality.

 

Now they're getting Pony Express which looks like it will make Jaguar's initial general public response seem very positive. It looks like a coaster that ends before it even starts. It looks like it could be the parks biggest fiasco despite its gimmick. Couldn't they at least made it longer by going around the rapids and into some tunnels and extending the end by moving their precious Screaming Swing that nobody rides? I guess not --- it goes in line with catering to the lowest common denominator. What ARE THEY THINKING??

 

If this was RCT, many peeps would be saying "I am not waiting that long (10 minutes) for Pony Express!".

[niiicolaaah]

...Does Knott's think its patrons are such dimwits that they would be even remotely entertained by this stuff? I know it's more for legal and safety purposes, but it all looks so fake, so sophmoric, and so lame. It's not even remotely interesting. I guess its the whole corporate mental at play which is all manufactured/fake versus the family owned mom/pop business which usually feels more genuine. ...

 

It's all due to the need for idiot-proofing here in sue-happy America.

 

What are some examples of park I could take such a person to and feel proud of my hobby? Cedar Point (what irony!), Disneyland, Dollywood, Holiday World, Hersheypark, Knoebels, Busch Gardens Africa and Europe, Kennywood, and Indiana Beach to name a few.

 

Go to Europe.

[coasterdude5]

I wish Herschend could somehow grab this park. I think they could manage to turn it around. It's my favorite of the Cedar Fail parks.

[RIP Psyclone]

I've said the last year of the old/good Knott's was 1996, when the Wacky Soap Box Racers closed. However, I think Knott's was already on its way downhill, perhaps even pre-Cedar Fair. Jaguar! in my opinion is the most boring roller coaster on this planet.

[coasterdude5]

^ Yeah, and the park could open up a bit by removing about half of their coasters. Keep the newer ones while scrapping older ones like Montezooma, Boomerang, Jaguar, and Timberline Twister. I know this isn't too feasible but I think Knott's could really go in another direction if they wanted. But then again it's all about the money!

 

Sort of a side note, but is there any way for Knott's to expand in size in the future? I know they're blocked in but the parks can do some crazy things to get more land.

[Goliath513]

The day Cedar Fail sells the park to another operator, will be the day they can redeem themselves for what they have done to this park. When I was at the park a few weeks ago, I took the time to go all around and it felt like a completely different park when you go from Ghost Town (pre CF) to Boardwalk (Post CF). All that concrete, trash cans, and coasters. The least they could do to that area is to paint Xcelerator and give some more colors to the area like when WindJammer was there. The red, white, and blue is overwhelming in a bad way in that corner. Paint Xcel red and yellow like Windjammer was (TTD's colors!) Did I mention trash cans? There were higher density of them in some places than people. Surprisingly, when I actually needed one, to throw away my drink while in line for PP, there wasn't a single one to be found.

 

And just to add, it was bad enough they put in Sierra Sidewinder, which in my opinion is a horrible ride. Pony express is just going to dig them into a deeper hole than with SS.

[coasterdude5]

^ While the trashcans can become repetitive, I don't think they are the park's biggest issue. I think the overall atmosphere guests were once used to has now been replaced by Cedar Fair Corporate-ness. The park continues to add new coasters (why two in a row, I'm not sure) while letting others fade away (literally with Xcel).

 

Cedar Fair's goal isn't to preserve the past, I don't think they've ever said that, but I think when you've got a park like this that has alot of history, you can try and preserve what all you can, but in the end - you have to do what's going to bring in the money.

 

I love this park and want it to succeed, but I think it needs a change in direction.

[downunder]

I've only been to Knott's post Cedar Fair, and all my visits have been when the park was deserted and the all the coasters were running so I haven't had much to complain about in terms of operations. I guess I don't what it was like in the good old days so my perspective is different.

 

Based on my last visit in August last year, Ghostrider was extraordinarily awful - maybe this is just before it's September rehab, and was brutal to the point I couldn't wait to get off. All my previous rides were just after September rehab and were pretty good.

 

The park is a bit light on for stand out coasters but a couple of world class coasters like an Intamin hyper and a Maverick style ride could change all that.

[laqueefa]

^ Yeah, and the park could open up a bit by removing about half of their coasters. Keep the newer ones while scrapping older ones like Montezooma

 

It would be a sad sad day if they removed this ride.

[mattnz]

I kind of thought Pony Express might be a good addition to Knott's - it's a family-oriented ride after all isn't it?

[ahecht]

One thing that frustrates me about Cedar Fair parks is that they make people think that all roller coasters beat the hell out of you. My local park is Kings Island. I can't even begin to tell you how many people have told me they don't like roller coasters anymore based on their experiences with rough rides at Kings Island. Their story is always the same: "I used to like roller coasters when I was younger, but I just can't take the beating anymore." I also hear a lot of complaints about the restraints on newer coasters.

 

You can't blame Cedar Fair for that one. They've owned King's Island for less than two years, and the only ride there installed by Cedar Fair is Firehawk (which, despite being a Vekoma, is rather smooth).

[RIP Psyclone]

Keep the newer ones while scrapping older ones like Montezooma.

 

Wow. No. Why would anyone want to scrap Monty? The whole point of this thread is the issue of Cedar Fair is ruining Knott's by removing classics rides and the like.

[ginzo]

You can't blame Cedar Fair for that one. They've owned King's Island for less than two years, and the only ride there installed by Cedar Fair is Firehawk (which, despite being a Vekoma, is rather smooth).

 

Yeah, Cedar Fair isn't responsible in any way for rides they own, operate, and maintain.

[Fredlv1]

^ Yeah, and the park could open up a bit by removing about half of their coasters. Keep the newer ones while scrapping older ones like Montezooma.

 

Monty is one of the great rides of Knott's! It's still very popular and if CF ever removed it, it would only make my distain for them even greater. They can get rid of Boomerang if they wanted to, however. I think our country is Boomeranged-out!

[ebl]

"It's all due to the need for idiot-proofing here in sue-happy America." (niiicolaaah)

 

Couldn't be more correct, and I couldn't agree more. People are idiots, all right. "Hmmm...how does you work these here 'seat belt' thingies?"

 

Some things to remember:

• Mere atmosphere doesn't bring in the numbers---it's the rides that do. More rides = More ROI. And Cedar Fair is in business to make money.
  
• Concrete lasts longer than wood. Saves repairs/replacement.
  
• More trash cans encourage people to put their trash inside instead of just dropping it on the ground. Fewer sweepers saves money.
  
• Removing things that "take up room" (the mission models, for instance) frees up space for new stuff.

And so on.

 

I don't agree with everything that's going on at Knott's nowadays, but I understand why.

 

Eric

[coasterdude5]

Keep the newer ones while scrapping older ones like Montezooma.

 

Wow. No. Why would anyone want to scrap Monty? The whole point of this thread is the issue of Cedar Fair is ruining Knott's by removing classics rides and the like.

 

Yeah, you're right. Especially since it's a compact ride. But I still think Boomerang, Timberland Twister, and Jaguar could all be removed.

[deasondodger]

things to improve knotts

 

1. Bring back soap box racers

2. Bring back the gasoline alley cars

3. Bring back the parachutes

4. Bring back the haunted shack

5. Bring back greased lightning

6. Bring back xk1

7. Bring back the tumblers

8 Return the lake and the church to the way they were.

9 Bring back the beary tale or dinosaur ride i really dont care which i enjyed both.

 

Even the carnival rides that were their like whirlpool, cool whip, and the propeller spin had their own special little place there

[cfc]

I think Knott's decline started when they replaced the Roaring 20s and Roaring 20s Airfield with that generic "Boardwalk" theme. That marked the loss of of two of my favorite attractions: the Wacky Soapbox Racers and the Parachute Sky Jump. But I think this happened before Cedar Fair came along (I'm not sure of the chronology). Not everything the Knott family did was golden--anybody remember the Gypsy Camp?

 

The park lost a lot of charm then, and replacing the Soapbox Racers with the late, definitely not lamented Windjammer certainly didn't help. (Xcelerator is a big improvement over that waste of steel, at least.)

 

For me, Silver Bullet symbolizes everything that's wrong with the park now. This mediocre ride is all out of proportion to the rest of Knott's. It towers over the main entrance and ruins the atmosphere of Ghost Town (which seems to have shrunk quite a bit since its heyday).

 

Back when I was a kid, my family enjoyed spending an evening at Knott's as a prelude to Disneyland. Now, I really don't care if I enter Knott's again--which makes me feel a bit sad.

See what I mean? It just looks wrong.

[MonkeyPants]

I very much disagree with the opinion that Knotts is horrible now, and was great before.

 

I've only been there twice... Once was about 9 years ago, Pre-CF. I had a mildly pleasant time but remember having a distinct feeling of "Well, I don't need to do that again."

 

Then I went at the end of last year, (cause my girlfriend had never been there) on a visit to LA. Had a great time, loved the atmosphere, and despite having a parking lot that was beyond packed, the lines were pretty short (exception being Ghost Rider).

 

We were exceedingly underwhelmed with Xcelerator as well. But other rides were fun, and we found the atmosphere to be really pleasant.