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Hersheypark (HP) Discussion Thread


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That was my photo of the trim brake that I sent to a friend of mine. He must have posted it on Facebook. I briefly passed by the site today and snapped two photos of two of the supposed three trims. This one is at the base of the "Stengel" dive. The other just after the apex of the second air time hill. I didn't see a third one to be honest, but I didn't look too hard either.

 

I have to say, I like that these brakes are small and spread out - that should really minimize their affect on the ride experience. It would be really neat, as they look to be electrically driven magnetic brakes, if they could turn them on and off as needed.

 

It would be great if Kings Dominion could do something like this for I-305, and eliminate that long dragging brake at the end.

 

To those that said that I-305 and Skyrush were designed with these trim brakes in mind... I don't think that's completely accurate. They were designed to have trims placed if needed (brackets). I'm not sure if that's what you guys meant. But there is a huge difference in saying that and saying the rides were designed to use trims from the beginning.

 

Fahrenheit has a similar bracket after the cobra roll. It has yet to have a brake installed. Again, many B&M rides are built with mechanical trim brakes that can be turned on and off as need (the preferred method, in my opinion). Designing rides with trims installed, or spots for trims to be installed is common. Designing rides with the intent to use trims makes no sense to me.

 

Again, Intamin is known to push the envelope, which is great. We can all appreciate that. But we've seen them cut that margin too close so many times, that pre-opening adjustments have had to be made (Maverick, I-305, now Skyrush).

 

I'm sorry, I'd rather ride a ride that has nothing tugging on the train as I'm riding. Intamin's rides may be more fun and intense, but I'd rather they play the design just a tad safer (re: the margins), as to not have the ride trimmed after the fact. I see no reason, with today's technology and experience, that a brand new ride should need to be trimmed.

 

*Edit - I just saw the photo comparison from user XYZ. If this Intamin brake can't be turned off, then I would rather have the B&M version.

 

Also, it looks as if, since these brackets are much longer than the brake itself, more brakes can be added as needed. Let's hope it stays with these minimal brakes for now.

Edited by Magnum PA
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I read on the net that anything approaching negative -2 g's or more can cause permanent damage to blood vessel in the brain or even cause aneurysm. I'm not complaining about airtime just trying to figure out if what I've been reading on the net about g's is wrong.

 

Supposedly S&S blast off towers achieve -2g at the top. And the Mondial Capriolo flat ride hits -4g.

 

I wonder what kind of possibilities we could have if humans had as high as tolerance for negative g as they do positive.

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The i305 brakes were in place when that section of track went up, before testing. Also, the ending is perfectly thrilling with those trims on, including the airtime hill that they sit on.

 

I don't remember that. Just so we're clear, you're referring to the same brakes that came off when the first drop brakes were installed? I also disagree that the ending is perfectly thrilling with the brakes. For me it was lacking, compared to the rest of the ride.

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I can't wait for Hershey! I'm going tomorrow, not next weekend... But what rides should I ride first? I was thinking this: Stormrunner, Sidewinder, Fahrenheit, Wildcat, Lightning Racer (The second side I ride will be my 100th coaster! WOO HOO! ), then Great Bear, Comet, and SooperDooperLooper. No kiddie rides because I'm not a credit whore... Sound like a good plan?

 

I would actually advise hitting Fahrenheit first, even before StormRunner. To say Fahrenheit has a slow line is an understatement. As a season pass holder who only goes on weekdays, I still only average 2 rides per summer because of the lines and slow operations.

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I can't wait for Hershey! I'm going tomorrow, not next weekend... But what rides should I ride first? I was thinking this: Stormrunner, Sidewinder, Fahrenheit, Wildcat, Lightning Racer (The second side I ride will be my 100th coaster! WOO HOO! ), then Great Bear, Comet, and SooperDooperLooper. No kiddie rides because I'm not a credit whore... Sound like a good plan?

 

I would actually advise hitting Fahrenheit first, even before StormRunner. To say Fahrenheit has a slow line is an understatement. As a season pass holder who only goes on weekdays, I still only average 2 rides per summer because of the lines and slow operations.

 

 

Ditto: if you don't get to it first thing, you will be waiting a minimum of 45 minutes if you want to ride it. And I stress minimum.

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The i305 brakes were in place when that section of track went up, before testing. Also, the ending is perfectly thrilling with those trims on, including the airtime hill that they sit on.

 

I don't remember that. Just so we're clear, you're referring to the same brakes that came off when the first drop brakes were installed? I also disagree that the ending is perfectly thrilling with the brakes. For me it was lacking, compared to the rest of the ride.

 

Yes they were installed as they are now. They were removed when the drop trims went up, and replaced when the drop trims were taken off.

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Tons of rides (by multiple companies) are built with trim brackets if they're needed, but eventually not used (Silver Bullet and Fahrenheit). It just turns out Skyrush exceeded expectations during testing and needs to be slightly trimmed. I don't think there will be a problem with the trims on Skyrush.

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To those that said that I-305 and Skyrush were designed with these trim brakes in mind... I don't think that's completely accurate. They were designed to have trims placed if needed (brackets). I'm not sure if that's what you guys meant. But there is a huge difference in saying that and saying the rides were designed to use trims from the beginning.

 

Just like Fooz is saying, those brakes have been there since original testing. They were designed into the ride. It's the kind of thing that happens when a park asks for for a 300-foot roller coaster in a tiny plot of land - you need brakes at some point. Just like I said before, I305 was designed with the brakes, and Skyrush was designed with the possibility of brakes.

 

Also, is that actually even a brake? It doesn't look like any Intamin brake I've ever seen... the trims on all their other rides are the same magnetic fins as found on their final brake runs.

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Magnetic braking loses stopping force the hotter it gets so with the constant train cycling + summer heat, those trims will have no affect on the ride quality.

 

I'm pretty sure it would take a really high temperature to have any kind of significant effect on a magnet's magnetic field. If anything, those losses would be offset by the increase in train speed due to high temperatures. When you have higher temperatures, bearings heat up and obviously the train runs faster. The magnetic field is directly affected by the speed at which a particle is passing through it. The faster the fins on the train are going through the magnetic trim brake, the force that it exerts back increases. So even if the temperature did have any kind of significant effect on the strength of the magnets, the fact that the train is also going faster due to the heat, simply mean that the magnetic brakes are still going to have a stronger magnetic field than before.

 

Also, constant train cycling really has no effect on the temperature of those magnets because the fins on the train never actually physically touch the trim brake. Any increase in temperature is going to be from external effects (the sun) only.

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Maybe they are there for the adverse weather conditions. Like to keep it at pace during hot summer days, and then off when it is cooler to keep the train moving at the required speed. During halloween and springtime, the temps are pretty cool up that way and sometimes the coasters can't run because of the temps??? Just my 2 cents......

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Also, is that actually even a brake? It doesn't look like any Intamin brake I've ever seen... the trims on all their other rides are the same magnetic fins as found on their final brake runs.

They're the same type used on zac-spins with a permanent magnet on the track and a fin on the car.

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Ok guys why are we making a big deal out of these trims?

 

It's 3, itty bitty magnetic brakes that we will most likely not even feel when riding. The train is still gong to fly, and there's still going to be lots of airtime, mostly ejector probably. Can we please get over it? I'll be the first to admit I'm a nerd and love discussing all the tech stuff, but this is just ridiculous.

 

Sorry, just my two cents.

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Can we please get over it? I'll be the first to admit I'm a nerd and love discussing all the tech stuff, but this is just ridiculous.

 

 

It's like fighting a grease fire with a Super Soaker. People see a trim brake and a lot of times conclude that they're being shorted. Kind of a what it is, as opposed to what it could have been scenario. Based on the Intamin airtime machines I've been on, I'm not going to worry that these will have a significant impact on the ride. Nothing like the castration which occurs on the camelback hill that turns Raging Bull into Mildly Aggravated Dairy Cow, at least.

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Bottom line is you wont feel it and if its that much of a concern then that's too bad that someone would worry about something like that.... just too bad. If it was a significant change then maybe but seriously.... its only .3 of a mph... THREE TENTHS!

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I don't understand why people are getting so bent out of shape. I could see if they trimmed the whole drop ala Intimidator 305*, but this is three ridiculously tiny spots that will make little difference.

 

*-My only ride on I305 was with the trimmed drop and despite that it's still the best roller coaster I've ever ridden.

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Haters gonna hate.

^QFT.

 

Look at it this way - it's not like there is an entire array of magnetic brakes to slow the trains down to a screeching halt. There are three instances of one sad and pathetic little brake trying to slow down the gigantic trains. The first instance isn't even until the tip top of the second airtime hill. That means that the entire ride up to that point will be completely unaffected!

 

I bet that I could pick those brakes up and carry them! They're so small!

 

There is a huge difference between neutering a ride and trying to get it under control. If losing three tenths of a mile per hour in top speed means that Hersheypark will save money on maintenance in the long run, then so be it!

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Also about the -2 g's I know NO Limits is a game but in that game you can't go over -1.5 g with out the screen flashing to yellow or red

 

The colors are not based on real life limits. Just a general scale. Because if thats the case, I think you hit red at about 5 positive G's - which we know several rides that hit that today and a few that hit over 6. Dont trust those colors, its not realistic to real life. You can change those colors anyways, which is what I did to reflect real life limits.

 

Also, I doubt those trims will do much to the ride experience as a whole.

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^In no limits, if the coaster hit that in the same time period as skyrush did, you would not see the red pop up unless you slowed down the sim to 25% or maybe even 50%.

 

 

 

Anyone know why they're using these kind of magnetic brakes as opposed to the usual fins?

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Due to the short attention span of many of this forum's users, this argument has gotten off track.

 

It's gone from "Why does another Intamin ride need to be trimmed before it opens?" to "Hersheypark is stupid and Skyrush is going to suck because it has trims."

 

I asked the former. No one in this thread has said the latter.

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^In no limits, if the coaster hit that in the same time period as skyrush did, you would not see the red pop up unless you slowed down the sim to 25% or maybe even 50%.

 

 

 

Anyone know why they're using these kind of magnetic brakes as opposed to the usual fins?

 

Its because the read out used to get that -2 wasnt realistic. I suspect, like a few others who are engineers I talk to, that it was simply a spike. I would only trust the g forces if Intamin released them. There's too many variables in using any sort of meter attached to the train. The slightest jolt can cause a serious spike. Im not betting this is over -1.6 or so, probably right about the same as El Toro's small hill.

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"Why does another Intamin ride need to be trimmed before it opens?"

That's already been answered. They knew that there would be a possibility for trims to be added (hence the brackets), did the necessary testing for the ride for the last several weeks (as always), found out that they do in fact need trims because it's running a little faster than anticipated, and added them. As I said before, the testing process worked EXACTLY like it was supposed to. So I still don't see what the issue is.

 

You can point at rides like Fahrenheit and Millennium Force, which have pre-built brackets for trims, as prime examples of testing working in the other direction. They thought they might need trims, tested them, found out they didn't, so everything was hunkee doree. Roller coaster building is not linear. Just because one ride turned out one way doesn't mean every other ride after that will be the exact same way. Every single ride has its own set of challenges during construction and testing. The fact that so-called enthusiasts can't grasp that concept is beyond me.

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"Why does another Intamin ride need to be trimmed before it opens?"

That's already been answered. They knew that there would be a possibility for trims to be added (hence the brackets), did the necessary testing for the ride for the last several weeks (as always), found out that they do in fact need trims because it's running a little faster than anticipated, and added them. As I said before, the testing process worked EXACTLY like it was supposed to. So I still don't see what the issue is.

 

You can point at rides like Fahrenheit and Millennium Force, which have pre-built brackets for trims, as prime examples of testing working in the other direction. They thought they might need trims, tested them, found out they didn't, so everything was hunkee doree. Roller coaster building is not linear.

 

Yes, I understand the "WHY", as in why new coasters have brackets/trims installed from the start. Many new steel coasters have them. I understand the logic and reasoning, and I've stated that.

 

But perhaps no one but Intamin can answer the greater question as to "WHY" a new ride is designed in such a fashion that trims are necessary before it even opens to the public. Yes, every ride is different, but the process to design them is very similar.

 

If Skyrush and I-305 have initial drops that are too large and create too much speed for the rest of the design, then there are only two conclusions. 1) The first drop is too tall, 2) the rest of the ride is too short. If there is not enough resistance on the rest of the course to safely and comfortably counteract the energy created by the first drop, then that is a "flaw" in the design.

 

Skyrush has a 200 foot first drop, but after that, its highest point is only 80 feet. I-305 has a 300 foot drop, and its highest point after that is only 150 feet, and after that still-sizable drop, it pretty much stays low to the ground. Both rides are/will be a blast, but to even untrained eye, the difference in the height between the first two hills, by design, doesn't seem right.

 

I mean, we're talking about Intamin's two most recent mega-coasters here, and both have been trimmed prior to opening. Once I ride Skyrush, I will have ridden them all (in the U.S.). They are my favorite type of ride - both style and manufacturer. But do any of the predecessors need/use trim brakes on the course? No!

 

Design a ride with locations for possible trims if necessary - makes sense. But don't design a ride that will need them right away - something that Intamin has more control over than people seem to think. It's a waste of kinetic energy, and brakes up the flow for us. That's all I'm saying.

Edited by Magnum PA
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