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Hersheypark (HP) Discussion Thread


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^^^The problem with I305 was that it sustained G's too high too long. Though I don't know the calculations myself (yet) my best guess is that since with an increase of G's, there's an increase of normal force and thus kinetic friction. The increase in friction should result in an increase of heat (I'm taking thermodynamics next semester; I'm just trying to do my best inferences here, which is why I used "should" instead of "will") and since the G's were sustained for more time on I305's first turn, that means that the wheels had more time to heat up without cooling down to their normal temperature. Since we don't have that amount of sustained G's on Skyrush, the quick G transitions will allow the wheels to cool down in a quick succession, thus they probably won't have to go through the wheels nearly as fast as I305 originally did. Time must be the more important factor rather than actual G's, because if that were not the case than Boomerangs would be far more legendary for their eating through wheels than they already are for their ubiquity and roughness (though I don't think they're unbearable in their roughness.)

 

Aren't Skyrush's trains heavier, though (just looking at the design). That would lead to an increase in friction because of an increase in mass, even though the Gs may not be as intense. Just a high school physics student speculating here...

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^^Ahh, that would as well, if I had reason to believe that Skyrush's trains were actually heavier, but I believe that Skyrush may actually be a little lighter (not by that much though; I wouldn't say more than 10-15% lighter without access to the plans.) Look at them carefully: Both cars have the same capacity, and I305's cars have "sides" to them. Skyrush's outer seats may have those extra supports under them to attach them to the sides of the inside portions of the car, but the design is VERY minimalist; there aren't any "sides" or even any seat backs covering up the restraint locking mechanisms (which I usually actually like aesthetically because I like looking at the mechanics.)

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Those "pits" in the upstop wheels look like they are caused by something on the track like a sharp edge or track junction that hadn't been ground down enough. Stress seems like it would cause more of a crack or stress fracture. The damage to that wheel seems to be concentrated to a particular area.

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I will be at Hersheypark for the first time since Storm Runner was added tomorrow and Saturday. I want to have a bit of a strategy, so does anyone have any advice or suggestions about when to do certain rides, places to get food, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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Here's a post from my friend Kirk on the Project 2012 Facebook group:

 

Sorry about the length of this post, but it's all necessary:

 

Just attended an informational session on “Skyrush: Behind the Scenes” presented by Kent Bachman at the Hershey Country Club this evening. Intamin/IntaRide “turned over the keys” to HP today and Kent was on the first ride with humans! As he told me- “words cannot describe it”. He was on a wing seat, and said he was holding on pretty tight!. Some of his more important comments clarified some things we’d been wondering about, and he also shared some new info, some of it from the accelerometers and/or Fred the crash test dummy. I took notes and think I have it all correct:

•The “advertised” ride height of 200’ is the actual drop; the 212’ (from the permit) is to the creek floor.

•Max g-force = just under 5.0 at bottom of first drop. (smile for the camera)

•Max NEGATIVE g-force is -2.0! Now that’s some airtime!

•Although published stats say 5 airtime hills, the data recorder shows 7, including the rear of the train over the lift hill, just as we suspected.

•Max speed has been 76.3 MPH, also at bottom of first drop. This is just outside the planned envelope….he said they MAY (his words) trim it just a shade to 76.0

•Ride time start of lift to return: 63 seconds

•Each train weighs 16 tons, EMPTY.

•I loved this one: 1.5 BILLION scan points were catalogued of all the existing rides, structures, terrain, etc. prior to starting design layouts

•Also as suspected, the two mis-painted cross braces on the south tower were just that, a mistake. They will eventually be blue. LOL

•300 cubic yards of concrete are at the bottom of the lift hill at the station. That’s 48 standard concrete-mixer trucks full.

•There will be no light beacon at the top of lift hill because of its proximity to the Kissing Tower.

•The mini-pile footers vary in depth from 30’ to 130’; Skyrush has 173 support columns for the track; in comparison, Bear has 196, for a coaster 800’ shorter. This was mainly possible due to the double-spine truss design of the track and was an important factor in keeping the costs down.

•And this surprising one… and I specifically asked to make sure I heard correctly: If you are over 6’5” tall, you will NOT be permitted to ride. There will be a guide stick for the ops that has the minimum 54” and the maximum 77”. It has nothing to do with arm reach, but rather the average length of the lower leg from knee to (pointed) toes, which I guess due to the train/seat configuration, could catch on something. That’ll upset some folks, but not as much as if they had half their foot hacked off.

 

When he means trim, I took a walk along Park Blvd this evening and there are 3 trims on the ride that are less than a foot long in length. Before anyone gets worried, they do not look like they will ruin the ride (remember, according to the info above, it's pulling -2.0g's).

 

In short, this is looking like a perfect storm of being a great coaster!

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YEE-ESS! I'm short enough to ride! I never thought that I'd be able to say that!

 

Oh, and the -2.0G thing; I wouldn't expect the forces to be sustained there. It's like the maximum positive Gs on the bottom of a drop, you only feel the absolute maximum for a split second.

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When he means trim, I took a walk along Park Blvd this evening and there are 3 trims on the ride that are less than a foot long in length. Before anyone gets worried, they do not look like they will ruin the ride (remember, according to the info above, it's pulling -2.0g's).

 

I'm curious, where are they? I trust that any trims they put on the ride won't ruin it (they'd have to trim a LOT of speed off to do that), but if they're looking to possibly trim the top speed down that would require them to be on the first drop.

 

Also, if they're looking to trim the top speed down, it seems like a slower lift rather than a set of trims would be a very simple solution.

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Actually, I have a really simple solution to the height issue -

 

Have a drive-thru style clearance bar at the ride's entrance. If you hit your head, you can't ride. It's that simple.

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When he means trim, I took a walk along Park Blvd this evening and there are 3 trims on the ride that are less than a foot long in length. Before anyone gets worried, they do not look like they will ruin the ride (remember, according to the info above, it's pulling -2.0g's).

 

I'm curious, where are they? I trust that any trims they put on the ride won't ruin it (they'd have to trim a LOT of speed off to do that), but if they're looking to possibly trim the top speed down that would require them to be on the first drop.

 

Also, if they're looking to trim the top speed down, it seems like a slower lift rather than a set of trims would be a very simple solution.

They are located at the following locations and are mounted on brackets. The are less than half the length of the bars. I didn't have my camera along to take a photo, but there are pictures of the brackets:

643125212_DSC05575(Custom).JPG.06f0bfbbba10384baca7b3f7d4eae100.JPG

1449022543_DSC04567(Custom).JPG.4c1f7322a1958b663c7f5cac5c6ba330.JPG

442409922_DSC03394(Custom).JPG.5b47058aa7d88b29daaf46c268cf8815.JPG

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I'm 6'5" with shoes on, but I will be wearing flip flops and riding barefoot, so I should be ok.

You need to find the thinnest flip flops out there! Like those cheap, disposable, paper thin, foam things. The ones that come in like a sheet, and you "snap" them together.

Well I imagine that if I am riding barefoot, they have to measure me barefoot, and there is zero chance that I am taller than 6'5" barefoot.

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Logging official complaint here, so there's no confusion...

 

May have trims, really? Before I state my piece, let me just say that I understand that if it's creating forces that are deemed too much for the average rider, it needs to be slowed. I get that. But...

 

Why, with today's technology, is a ride designed that needs to be trimmed before it even opens? It's mind boggling. I couldn't understand it with I-305, I don't get it now. Are Intamin's calculators broken?

 

I understand that B&M coasters have had trims in recent years as well. But their's are different. They are mechanical brakes that can be turned on and off. They are there to be used if needed.

 

Intamin trims are simple fins, fixed to a bracket. If they are there, they are on.

 

For me, there is nothing that is more of a buzz kill on a ride than to feel it drag when it shouldn't - it's the one reason I didn't like I-305 as much as Millennium Force. I felt the late-hill trim was too much. I hope that these brakes either come off, or truly have minimal impact on the ride.

 

Again, I understand that these brakes are deemed necessary because of the forces these coasters create. But the question is, why are these coasters being designed that way?

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Skyrush, the first coaster to induce red outs Hopefully the 6'5 height limit will only be for the winged seats. I remember when Sky Rocket had a height limit of 6 feet just for the 4th row. Can't wait to start reading peoples experiences on this ride. Looks like a really fun coaster.

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I don't normally respond, but in this case, I think I can warrant a small response. Coming from an mechanical engineers perspective - sometimes simulations/design just don't tell the whole story. I designed and built a device a couple years back that took tons of trial and error. Not to get too much into the engineering behind it, but it was a beam design with a strain gauge attached to it to take force readings - pretty simple mechanical principles. Well, I ran hundreds of simulations with Solidworks (one of the best programs for such things) and used the results to refine my design. By the time it was machined it should have been basically a bulletproof design - WRONG. About 15 design iterations later I finally got it to work right. The theoretical computer program was about 7% of what was really happening when I built the thing. It was close, but not quite right.

 

Upscale that and take all the complexities of a coaster into consideration and it truly is amazing they can get as close as they do in the engineering of something like this. What if their simulations/calculations were off 7%. If they predicted 70 mph then - wallah! She's running 75 mpg when built. That 5 mph is going to make a lot more difference in what goes on than what you think. I'm pretty certain that with the heights and speed we are seeing today and the forces that are being put on structures - they're doing a darn fine job. Computers and calculations can only tell you so much!

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