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SeaWorld Orlando (SWO) Discussion Thread

p. 276: Penguin Trek family coaster announced!

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The trims and MCBR seem to be working (you can hear them, and you might be able to tell visually). It would seem odd that B&M would run with the brakes off, or seriously reduced force for the sake of testing. What are they afraid of, the train stalling? They've already done the math on this. The ride is designed to finish the circuit from a complete stop at the MCBR. Why would they send the train through at those speeds unless that was how they intend to run the ride? I could be wrong, we all know how slowly B&M's can crawl through their courses (as designed and intended). But I've never seen an instance where they've run so much faster during testing. I don't know why they would start this now after building so many successful coasters.

 

Fingers crossed that I'm right

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Regarding Fury with no Mid course, that's true but what I was referring to specifically was how even with a trim on the hill it's still taken at a pretty good clip. Obviously the second half of this ride will be nothing like this POV but up until that point I don't see any real reason why this would be drastically different that Fury in terms of pacing/how it compares to the first test.

 

Emphasis on drastically. I'm sure the trim will engage a little but does Fury's trim kill everything afterwards?

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The first airtime hill after the hammerhead-turn looks bad-ass. And while I understand the purpose of an MCBR, I can't help but feel like it's a shame a shame on every coaster that has one.

Why? Because as I understand it, they put in an MCBR to buy time for the loading... Not to make the ride better.

With an MCBR, the second half of the coaster is bound to be less exciting than the first.

An RMC does not have this problem. And a second launch a la Maverick, Helix or Cheetah Hunt means the ride stays super-exciting and awesome the whole way through.

 

That said, Mako looks bad ass! I hope they only trim what they need to not make it painful.

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Having had lengthy discussions about the testing process, roller coaster design, and safety features with the B&M team, I thought I'd weigh in a few things:

 

1) The only reason they would run a train faster than intended during testing is if it's cold outside (but the schedule requires testing to start). Looking at the Florida weather, this is not the case.

 

2) The purpose of "block breaks" (MCBR) is for safety and timing. The longest "block" of a ride needs to be the first one (typically the lift hill), otherwise, when dispatching fast dispatches, the train would come to a slamming halt on the block breaks since the train in front has not cleared the next block yet. It has nothing to do with what will make the guests happy. It has nothing to do with "pacing" the ride. It's a safety feature only. The reason Fury can get away with having their block breaks at the end of the ride is because of how long the first lift hill climb is. The reason Banshee can get away with it is because it has a variable lift hill speed calculator. In fact, I've seen the Banshee crew move so fast they got a setup on the lift and had to re-start the lift when the next block was clear. We used to have this problem on the Big Bad Wolf too where A block was slightly too short.

 

3) B&M is usually not the one to tune down the speed of a ride. The parks themselves typically are the ones to do it. It's very possible the speed might get turned down in the second half, but it will likely be Sea World's call. (Alpengeist is a great example of a ride that used to haul ass but has been tuned down by the park to save on maintenance. Anaconda and most Arrow's are like this too). The exception is when there's a requirement of space that limits an element geometrically, in a way that needs to be slowed down slightly to execute (which is why you sometimes see trim brakes on from day one, like the third hill trim brakes on Apollo's Chariot).

 

For the time being, this is very likely to be the currently planned pacing of the ride. If history is any indicator, it will probably get tuned down slightly before opening, then tuned down more over the years. Maybe it will get tuned down a lot before day one. Maybe it won't get tuned down at all. Trying to say either way is probably an exercise in futility. However, if you're going to get a ride in this state, I'd put money on that happening sooner than later.

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^ That seems really hard for me to believe that parks are going into the control systems of modern multi-million dollar coasters and making changes themselves. So far out of all of the operating B&M hypers they all opened w/ the same amount of trimming that they use today. None of them pass a trim without it hitting, none of them hit an MCBR without slowing, and none of them operate w/ the 100% "hard" wheels on a daily basis.

 

I don't see why anyone believes that B&M suddenly just had a change of mind after 17 years of making hyper coasters where they decided to suddenly let them run free.

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So far out of all of the operating B&M hypers they all opened w/ the same amount of trimming that they use today. None of them pass a trim without it hitting, none of them hit an MCBR without slowing, and none of them operate w/ the 100% "hard" wheels on a daily basis.

 

Thats completely false. Behemoth at Canada's Wonderland doesn't use its trim brakes that often and barely uses the MCBR. Sometimes the first trim brake is used but the second and third are never used. Back in 2008 the trims were used more often.

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So far out of all of the operating B&M hypers they all opened w/ the same amount of trimming that they use today.

 

Raging Bull's airtime hill trim says hello. Either way, I believe you've worn out your speculation. We'll all find out soon enough.

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^ That seems really hard for me to believe that parks are going into the control systems of modern multi-million dollar coasters and making changes themselves. So far out of all of the operating B&M hypers they all opened w/ the same amount of trimming that they use today. None of them pass a trim without it hitting, none of them hit an MCBR without slowing, and none of them operate w/ the 100% "hard" wheels on a daily basis.

 

I don't see why anyone believes that B&M suddenly just had a change of mind after 17 years of making hyper coasters where they decided to suddenly let them run free.

And in the same cynicalness, I have a hard time believing your theory when some who clearly worked in the industry just explained else-wise. It's not hard to believe given B&M gives the park the option to in the programming.

Edited by RollerManic
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With an MCBR, the second half of the coaster is bound to be less exciting than the first.

 

 

Mantawater.jpg

 

b65626c2a9ef2096d5b5f5123016c2ce.jpg

 

Raptor_828866.jpg

 

I disagree about Kumba, which is the only one of those I've been on.

But obviously this is a matter of opinion and taste.

 

What I'm saying is, the MCBR there for operating reasons, not to make the coaster better...

Other manufacturers build their coasters without it, and I find those coasters better. Anything that is awesome post MCBR can be achieved without it. It's about the initial design.

 

Look at Lightning Rod for instance... That coaster ( and all RMC's) is just ruthless from start to finish. There are no breaks. And they build their rides to be the best rides they can possibly be... Which means they don't install an MCBR to ensure they eat as many people per hour as possible...

 

I understand the reason why they use MCBR's... but I prefer a coaster only designed to be the best ride it can be while you're on it.

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Obviously it is possible to run without the mcbr on... and thus it would have no effect on the ride other than being a little flat spot.

 

If parks can or are willing to do that is the question. Maintence and regulations are probably to blame.

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So much debate about the mcbr. Sometimes capacity is the number 1 thing parks are looking for and B&M does a great job with that. Especially down here in Florida where a lot of tourists just see big and fast. I don't know the exact number but that extra 300-400 people an hour makes a huge difference

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^ That seems really hard for me to believe that parks are going into the control systems of modern multi-million dollar coasters and making changes themselves. So far out of all of the operating B&M hypers they all opened w/ the same amount of trimming that they use today. None of them pass a trim without it hitting, none of them hit an MCBR without slowing, and none of them operate w/ the 100% "hard" wheels on a daily basis.

 

I don't see why anyone believes that B&M suddenly just had a change of mind after 17 years of making hyper coasters where they decided to suddenly let them run free.

 

Well, I've personally worked on a B&M, spoken to Claude several times, and spoken at length with many of the install team members at B&M several times, and I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong. First and foremost, B&M coasters often haul ass in their opening year and get tuned down later, and I'll post a video example in a minute. Many changes made to coasters are done in consultation of the manufacture, but I promise adjusting various things about the rides not only is within the capabilities of the parks, but I've seen it in person. As you stated, these are multi million dollar machines. You better believe the manufacture is going to do whatever the park asks them to do to the product. You better believe the park that owns it has completely control over what they do to it. What, you think if they want something changes, they have to go ask permission first? Do you call Honda up before adding after market parts to your car? Yes, in many cases they consult with the manufacture before making changes, but it's something they can and will do. Also, you better believe the maintenance workers on these rides can do just about anything to them, just the same way a third party mechanic that isn't your car dealer can change things about your car for you.

 

These kinds of changes happen at parks all the time. For example, Loch Ness Monster had it's first lift chain speed tuned down to help with loading times of disabled guests. Alpengeist trims a lot more now than it used to, both at the crown and on the MCBR. (Here's a video of Alpengeist opening year to prove it

... God I miss going on the ride at this pacing) Drachen Fire had the anti-rollback device modified in 1993 to be completely silent due to guest complaints. Just about every single Arrow coaster ever built trims more now than it did at opening.

 

One last note, as many others have said, you can hear the brakes firing in the video. They aren't off. You can LITERALLY hear them. I'm not sure why you've convinced yourself they are completely off, when there's video evidence they are on.

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