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SeaWorld Orlando (SWO) Discussion Thread

P. 274: Pipeline photos & Howl-O-Scream trip report!

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Of course its reinvested into the parks, its what keeps them running. And I don't "claim" they make a billion, I did some research before posting this and got figures.

 

Also, the post isn't to show sea world in a only negative light. I stated their conservation efforts are great(rescuing, rehabilitating etc) but again, they're a business. Business requires animals to live in tanks. They take their basic freedom away. People will claim they have a "better life" in captivity. Yeah, well, they didn't ask for that. They cannot speak, so they are taken advantage of in that regard. No matter how beautiful, people still see whales below them.

 

And Im slightly disturbed thats all you really took away from that post.

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Great post Rob! I agree! People are ignoring the good that Sea World does. Something that I really can't support though is the entertainment shows the animals are in. I think that Sea World would be better without making whales jump through hoops and such. Just my opinion. I don't like that this film has put people in an either/or stance. I think that there are shades of gray in most cases and this film brought out a lot of extremists in both sides.

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Thanks for posting this as well. Really great points. I think it's interesting that all the the coaster people are ignoring these points. You guys are accusing everyone of being uneducated and extremists, but no one on this side is willing to see some of the animal rights pov.

 

Ok Ok Ok. Ive been following Theme Park Review for quite some time. Im subscribed to their youtube to catch every upload as soon as I can and I frequent the site often, but never posted anything as I never had an account. Until now I never felt obligated to post anything.

 

What initially caught my attention was Robb saying "have you not advanced as a society" in retort earlier in the post. Now, I understand where you came from on that, especially with people falling for the Blackfish propaganda and thinking they're suddenly experts on animal rights. I can't say much on the film, I haven't seen it, but I am very very much into animal rights and welfare and I feel the Seaworld controversy isn't clear cut black and white(ba dum tis)

 

First off, I can guarantee most people on this site(and naturally, in the world) don't give a crap about animals considering theres photos of dead ones in the shape of burgers, hot dogs, soups, pizzas, you name it every time you visit a park. So, this brings me back to "have we not advanced as a society", you only said that because people are attacking a theme park with cute whales in it. Im more than sure their conservation efforts are second or third to the fact of roller coasters and the flipping whales, because certainly if anyone wants to "advance society" you certainly wouldn't be stuffing your face with animals that you're claiming to care about. Advanced society sees animals as animals, not as food. Advanced societies research the effects of animal agriculture and would abandon animal products upon finding out because advanced societies would know its destroying our planet and steal every meager essence of an animals right. Granted, cows, chickens and pigs aren't probably worthy animals in your eyes, like the almighty Orca or dolphin.

 

Which brings me to...if you're so adamant about sea conservation, I suggest you never pick up another piece of seafood in your life. Why? Millions upon millions of sea life, including the cute little dolphins and whales, die every year because of commercial fishing. "By catch" is what happens when you release miles and miles of net into our ocean and trail it behind a ship..catching ANYTHING and EVERYTHING but hardly the intended catch. Whatever is caught that isn't your food, dies by drowning or is hauled up...then tossed back in the ocean, dead. Fishing alone kills more animals a year(not just fish caught for food, I'm talking turtles, dolphins, sharks, rays, etc everything at Seaworld) than sea world could even dream of saving..which brings me to my next point..

 

Seaworld sells seafood. For a company who thrives of rehabilitation you'd think they'd be pretty damn serious about not killing and eating animals they're trying to save. Or at the least, supporting companies that don't run our oceans BARREN with every net. Now they claim to buy foods from companies who farm fish(not wild caught), I don't know how true that is.

 

And as far as conservation...they do amazing jobs at it. Without a doubt. Since *inception, they donated 50million dollars to organizations! Thats amazing!...they only make over a BILLION dollars a year. The money they donate comes from federal grants, not from what the park generates. And they won't release an animal back to the wild if they deem it profitable. So it becomes the next Shamu.

 

Whales are INCREDIBLE animals. And the interests of humans(profit, entertainment) come way before any of the animals interests. Im not saying they're not cared for well(they have better medical care than i do) But living in a pool, no matter how big, steals the one thing every animal on this planet is entitled to...freedom. They are captives. Glorified slaves. There are plenty of ways Seaworld could benefit whales without having them perform tricks and flips for fat tourists and snotty kids. Whales need tight nit social family groups, whales like to hunt, whales like to swim miles and miles a day. They are denied this and its replaced with artificial enrichment with hoola hoops. If sea world had the captive whales interests in mind, they'd use their "research" to find ways to make conservation happen without exploiting animals. These animals don't showcase their behaviors in the wild, they are trained animals.

 

Seaworld is a business. A business first and for most. Also, I don't agree with randomly releasing captive animals into the wild(I hear thats what some people suggest after watching the film), but they certainly shouldn't be kept in tanks. The tanks are there for access with stadium seating, not the whales benefit.

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Thanks for posting this as well. Really great points. I think it's interesting that all the the coaster people are ignoring these points. You guys are accusing everyone of being uneducated and extremists, but no one on this side is willing to see some of the animal rights pov.

 

Only problem is the author admittedly has not seen Blackfish. This whole discussion revolves around Blackfish specifically and its content. I don't think anyone here is ignoring or is ignorant of the general POV of animal activists in general. They're just reacting directly to the propaganda that is Blackfish.

 

I can't say much on the film, I haven't seen it, but I am very very much into animal rights and welfare and I feel the Seaworld controversy isn't clear cut black and white(ba dum tis)

 

I'd recommend actually watching before spouting off on it, or the discussion going on about it. Maybe then the controversy would become clearer.

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First off, I can guarantee most people on this site(and naturally, in the world) don't give a crap about animals considering theres photos of dead ones in the shape of burgers, hot dogs, soups, pizzas, you name it every time you visit a park. So, this brings me back to "have we not advanced as a society", you only said that because people are attacking a theme park with cute whales in it. Im more than sure their conservation efforts are second or third to the fact of roller coasters and the flipping whales, because certainly if anyone wants to "advance society" you certainly wouldn't be stuffing your face with animals that you're claiming to care about.

 

I'm sorry, but this is too funny to pass up without giving my two-cents. So you are suggesting that companies with similar missions like SeaWorld should only serve vegetarian or vegan foods? Are you forgetting that it is natural of humans to eat meat as part of their daily diet? True, there is an ethical and unethical way to processing meats for human consumption, but there is nothing wrong with eating food that humans are biologically programmed to eat. I believe the "advanced society" remark was intended to touch on the bigger picture of how humans think and gather information, not about eating habits that are only natural.

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Okay. That argument is the most ridicules thing I've ever seen. Are you seriously saying anyone who eat meat doesn't care about the environment? How?!?! I donate tons of money to conservation groups and enjoy eating Hamburgers at every chance possible. I do agree with you on the grounds of seafood. Personally, I never eat seafood because I believe commercial fishing is unsustainable but that has little to do specifically with SeaWorld. In fact, I would venture to say conversationalists are working to dissolve the methods used by commercial fishermen. IGFA pushed to end all billfish sales in the United States, and won, and the Costa Rican government along with conservation groups are pressuring to end long lining on the Pacific coast. WWF is working hard to help Bluefins. To blast SeaWorld because they sell fish is silly. Might as well protest Outback, Carrabba's, McDonald's, and the freaking Catholic Church.

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I think we better try to keep this thread back on track. I realize I contributed to the delinquency of the thread so just ignore that and move on!

 

Anyone else go to the event this weekend? There's also a special these next weekends that if you buy one Fun Card you can get one free which is an awesome deal!

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The US government chose SeaWorld as a home to these rescued pilot whales based on their animal care facilities.

 

This statement is absolutely true. There are stories out there that all of SeaWorld's pilot whales come from drive fisheries in Japan, where dolphins and whales are slaughtered by fisherman by the hundreds and thousands. This is completely untrue. There are seven pilot whales in SeaWorld's collection: three in San Diego, four in Orlando, and none in Texas.

 

In San Diego, Bubbles III was captured in 1966 and lived at Marineland in Los Angeles until the park closed, when she, like the other animals in the park, was transfered to San Diego.

 

9 Lives (Niner), formerly known as Shadow, was captured in 1982 and was one of the last marine mammals captured by SeaWorld in the wild.

 

Argo arrived in 2012 from Kamogawa Sea World in Japan, where he lived for eight years. The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society (the Whale Wars guys) have tried for years to tie Argo's residency at Kamogawa with the fact that the park had a history of purchasing dolphins and whales from the drive fisheries. However, it's well documented that Argo was found as a calf stranded by himself on Moriya Beach in Japan. I have never seen Sea Shepherd attempt to counter that fact.

 

In Orlando, all four pilot whales were rescued from strandings in Florida. Fredi stranded on Cudjoe Key, was rehabilitated at the Florida Keys Marine Mammal Center, and moved to SeaWorld in 2011. Piper, Ace, and Ava all stranded at Fort Pierce, went through rehabilitation at Florida Atlantic University, and arrived at SeaWorld in 2012.

 

Not one pilot whale captured in the wild since 1982, not a single one from drive fisheries, and five of the seven are rescues.

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Which brings me to...if you're so adamant about sea conservation

Let me re-post a couple of the rants I also posted on Facebook so you can actually understand why my original rant was actually about...

 

You know what I actually find kind of amusing ... My initial rant is actually NOT a commentary on SeaWorld or Whales, it's about a society of people who just because they watch something on Netflix they claim to be experts about a subject, and preach to a point of insanity to others, when they really don't even have a clue what they are protesting for or against.

 

I'm not deleting comments or banning people because they feel one way or the other about SeaWorld, I'm deleting them because they are just flat out crazy people and I don't care to associate myself with them.

 

Wow. So we have actually now banned about 350 people and removed about 500 comments. Let me explain something further...

 

All of these Blackfish supporters who keep claiming things like "Jack Hanna only said that because he was paid to", and how the parks and trainers are all about the money, etc...

 

Well, I have been in the theme park business for the last 27 years. I have been considered an "expert" in the field and have been featured on Travel Channel, Discovery Channel, BBC, CNN, CNBC, and in print publications like New York Times, Wall Street Journal, etc.

 

During the summer of 2013 a woman lost her life when she fell from the Texas Giant roller coaster. Yes, it's an incident that shouldn't have happened but it did.

 

I was brought in by many major news channels and publications to talk about the safety of amusement parks. What I quickly realized that my 27 years of experience, the fact that I had been on that ride over 100 times, and had more knowledge than ANYONE else I was speaking with didn't matter.

 

They all just wanted to punish the park, blame the ride company, and refused to listen to any rational reasoning of why things happened.

 

Just like Jack Hanna, I was speaking on the subject out of my passion and experience for it. Yes, I make money from what we do, and yes, it's my business. But that is NOT the driving force for why I choose to speak about the industry and try to educate others on a subject matter that was under such scrutiny.

 

But none of that mattered. People who had never been on the ride, never stepped foot in Texas were telling me how I was "wrong" and whatever sound byte they had heard of the news or some sensationalized report was the "truth."

 

The *EXACT* same thing is going on here.

 

There is one thing I know for sure - none of these Blackfish supporters actually know enough about Orcas or SeaWorld or anything marine life related to make the statements that they are. And you know, neither do I. But I know who does. The people at SeaWorld.

 

They are passionate about what they do and have dedicated their life to it. Yes, some of them are making money and it's their career. Why is this being brought up as a negative? If many of you could be doing what you love and at the same time, were able to have it pay your rent and feed your family, I would actually congratulate you for having something that many people work their lives to do and never accomplish.

 

I am deleting and banning people because the things I read aren't opinions. They are incorrect statements that only could do more potential damage if other people reading it think it's fact.

 

And just so everyone understands, my initial rant was NOT about SeaWorld or whales. It was NOT about supporting or not supporting the park or the film.

 

It was about people who watch a movie and then consider themselves experts on a subject to the point where they go out and protest and try to disparage people who have spent their lives working towards something, and regardless of what the truth may be, REFUSE to listen, and just continue to preach on something they are uneducated about.

 

I simply will NOT allow those people on our page.

 

You can continue to post as much as you want, and we will continue to delete them.

 

The fact that this post has been shared over 900 times by people who support rational thinking speaks volumes.

 

Jack Hanna didn't get up and celebrate Dawn's family just because he was paid for an appearance. Dawn's family wasn't at the show because they were paid to. And anyone that thinks that is an irrational person who should do more research before blindly following a Hollywood movie and claiming it's "fact."

 

/end rant.

 

And here is that Facebook post where all this came from in case you're interested:

Edited by robbalvey
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Oh great, SeaWorld paid Robb AGAIN just to repeat that conglomeration of lies here! What a terrible and evil entity they must be to whore themselves out for such cheap publicity!

 

/end obvious sarcasm

 

I'm reading through all the comments on the image, and I think I need to stop. If I facepalm any harder, my hand will go through the back of my head.

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Seaworld keeping the whales in captivity actually helps the whole species and the animal world, and I'd care to elaborate on this subject.

 

Seaworld has inspired many people to become marine biologists and animal experts. When little kids see these whales perform, they admire animals and gain a new-found respect for animals around the world. Without places like Seaworld, people might care less about the welfare of animals. By presenting all these different species for guests to see, people become inspired to learn more about animals. Those same people are the ones who go out rescuing and nurturing injured animals. Without those people, some of these animals could go extinct. Without Seaworld, we wouldn't have those people. Yes, Seaworld is keeping the whales in captivity but they are not torturing them. But I'm sure that as long as Seaworld is "abusing" these animals by giving them a home to swim around in, exercising them, and feeding them, people like PETA are going to find some way to exploit them. Some people...........

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I'm reading through all the comments on the image, and I think I need to stop. If I facepalm any harder, my hand will go through the back of my head.

So because I deleted the ones that were 100x worse, I've basically saved your life?

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I understand the context of what Robb was saying. It just tickled me considering the topic. No type of advanced society is bent on exploiting animals. Theres really no discussion there. And since we aren't as advanced as we can/should be, I found it humorous all in the while he's defending a theme park that uses dancing animals to get visitors to visit.

 

I won't continue for too long, as this isn't a animal rights/welfare forum after all...but not seeing Blackfish doesn't deny my post of any merit. I understand where everyone is coming from and I can gather the film is a load of propaganda made to make a point when there isn't one. But it RAISES age old questions of keeping massive animals like Orcas in tanks for their lives. Thats what Im focusing on. And how Seaworld does a lot of harm with its good deeds.

 

To the "Seaworld should sell vegan food" joke. I think its incredibly ironic and ridiculous zoological societies sell animal products. Especially a place called Seaworld selling seafood. I understand no human is going to a visit a park if they can't get their deep fried meat(because, you know, important things) so they must cater to a general demographic, but its still ridiculous. They can show the world with their beautiful animals that we don't have to ransack the ocean to quench our pallet for dead animals.

 

If you claim to be an "environmentalist" you'd know that the current state of animal agriculture is ruining the planet beyond repair. There is no denying that in any way. To the cutting off RAINFORESTS(environment) to raise beef cows and grow genetically modified soy(to feed said cows), to the trillions(!) of gallons of fresh water used and contaminated by factory farms a year, to MASSIVE amounts of waste produced by the 60+ BILLION animals being raised for food every year. Its simply UNSUSTAINABLE. Any "environmentalist" would see that. Humans are not designed to eat meat. That, my friend, has been fed to you since birth and its pretty ignorant of you to still believe such nonsense. Its just as ridiculous as you believing humans need cows milk to survive when 1). we are the only animals to drink milk of ANOTHER animal(cows produce milk for their babies just like any other animal) and 2). we are the only animals in the world who drink milk after infancy. Humans can live perfectly fine without animal products(considering I'm not dead or dying may be proof) Humans eat meat/milk/eggs because it tastes good. THATS IT. You ignore the morality and welfare of animals to stuff your face daily. Theres nothing in meat you can't get from plants. So it falls down to the fact you're choosing to support companies that strip every animal of its basic right and happiness.

 

And before someone throws this at me, no, we are not lions or tigers, therefore we can't be compared to them eating meat. A lion is strictly designed to be a carnivore and even if it could survive off plants, a lion is not morally conscious and therefore doesn't understand a animal suffers and to stop causing an animal pain. Humans, on the other hand, do. which makes consuming meat even more morally incomprehensible. You are fully aware an animal has been raised and killed in the most horrific of ways, and you still sit down and eat it without batting an eyelash. You are making excuses for it. There is no "ethical" way to raise animals for food as you are KILLING them at the end of the day. You feel you eating is more important than an animals right to live. Simple as that.

 

To even say Mcdonalds or Outback steakhouse isn't a contender in destroying the environment shows how little to nothing you actually know about those businesses.

 

But anyways...YEAAAAAHHHHH ROLLER COASTERS! Im going to Disney in a couple of months for my 2 anniversary with my boyfriend, and he wants to visit Animal Kingdom. What a conundrum I face, huh? We were in the Seaworld area last year visiting Orlando for IOA and US and he mentioned Seaworld and I shot that down.

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"Blackfish" did what any 'successful" documentary wants to achieve, which is to create a polarizing view of a subject that creates real debate, even if it has an agenda. The reality is, ALL successful Oscar-winning caliber documentaries have an agenda. That's what makes them effective! If you think about all the winning documentaries, "Bowling For Columbine", etc... they all have slants and questionable facts... but its more of the debates and arguments they actually start which would not have been started without the film's existence. In this sense, the films are important if only because they ignite discussions on topics that maybe people wouldn't have thought much about previous to watching them.

 

If all one does is simply watch a documentary and thinks they are then a 'self-proclaimed expert' on the documentary's subject, then they're just as big of a moron as someone who reads a review of the film and thinks they're an expert. The truth always is in the grey area somewhere in between. Every big corporation is bound to have corruption problems, and there's hypocrisies in every group.

 

What really pains me is all the negative responses towards Robb and Allysia, who I personally know are really good people, and having crazy fanatic PETA nut-cases openly attack them on Facebook and their own forums here, when all they asked was for some rational perspective in the spirit of common sense. That's the trouble with anything polarizing... you're gonna have the people that are sure they are right...make opinions that they're sure are right... have people agree with them that are equally sure they're right... all making wild statements from the walmart laptop in the collective meth lab from trailer-park USA.

Edited by kayoss
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Not so much all meat, but sea food specifically(not that ones better/worse than the other) Do some research on the effects of commercial fishing alone, you'd see where Im coming from(probably not though). They could open peoples eyes further, but again, Seaworld is a business enterprise first and foremost.

 

Its like walking into a museum showcasing the effects of slavery throughout world history and selling whips and chains in the gift shop. Its offensive and does not help the cause displayed by any means. Its backwards.

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Pardon me, but I am going to be a black....sheep in this threads recent conversation by directing a question to SharkTums. I saw that you said the park was doing a "bogo" on fun cards for the next few weekends and was wondering if this was just for SWO or might they be doing this at Busch Gardens Tampa also? Thanks for any response.

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I have to say this board is the most reasonable debate I have read. I avoid reading about the topic in other places because it's just crazy. Really appreciate all the really great points both sides have brought up. It's good we're having this discussion!

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No type of advanced society is bent on exploiting animals.

 

Humans have been exploiting animals for food and as beasts of burden since the dawn of civilization, arguably earlier if you look how animal skins/furs were used for warmth. Animals are natural resources same as a plant, tree, or anything underneath the surface of the Earth. Plants are considered living things, just like animals. Only plants can't move about and make cute faces or adorable noises. As a vegetarian, you're still denying a plant's right to live and killing it in the most horrific means possible so you can eat. Is an animal so different just because it can walk, make a sound, eat, and crap? Humans live off the planet's natural resources. Always have, always will. We're not perfect, but we are doing a better job of that now than we have in the past.

 

To your point about SeaWorld and seafood, I don't think SeaWorld offers as food the same sea life it puts on display on animal tanks. If it did, then maybe you'd have a point. AFAIK, SeaWorld serves up the same sort of mystery meat fish, shrimp, maybe lobster that could be found in most any restaurant in the world. The world is not going to run out of cod, trout, shrimp, lobster, or any other common ocean delicacy any time soon. Manatees, dolphins, otters, killer whales and the like aren't on anyone's dinner plate at SeaWorld or hardly anywhere else save for the people who literally live on the ocean. That's where the distinction is. There's nothing controversial about serving fish sticks in a restaurant while a killer whale show goes on down the street, just like there's nothing wrong with a zoo serving hamburgers. We aren't eating every animal that walks on land or swims in the sea. The ones we do eat would not be featured in anyone's conservation effort because there wouldn't be any reason. If cows or chickens were endangered, most people wouldn't eat them. There's no issue there.

 

Or am I wrong?

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