California Great America (CGA) Discussion Thread

[eddie200330]

Ironically, the worse the 49ers do, the better the chances for the park. No one wants to build a nice stadium for a team that perennially sucks.

 

Consider the immense amount of money these lawsuits and legal briefs are costing Cedar Fair. THAT'S a fairly good bet where your capital expenditures are going for CGA right now. Plus, why invest in a park that may not be there in 5 years AND is looking to be sold by Cedar Fair as soon as possible?

 

This is what brought me to this conclusion earlier...

 

^ Or just prolong the inevitable and make it slow and agonizing.....

[Jew]

Ironically, the worse the 49ers do, the better the chances for the park. No one wants to build a nice stadium for a team that perennially sucks.

 

Actually, tons of people want to build a nice stadium for a team that perennially sucks.

[jray21]

^Agree. When the SF Giants built their new stadium, they were still horrible. Granted they had Barry Bonds star power, but they weren't top contenders.

[Columbia]

Ironically, the worse the 49ers do, the better the chances for the park. No one wants to build a nice stadium for a team that perennially sucks.

 

Actually, tons of people want to build a nice stadium for a team that perennially sucks.

 

You're right Joey, the Raiders and (Al Davis) keep growling for a stadium...

 

Hopefully cooler and smarter heads will prevail and realize that the fundamental problem with the site is lack of access. (I.E. Infastructure to handle 60k people every week.)

[Fire2box]

Possibly some small light at the end of the tunnel for CGA. Just ran on local channel KTVU:

49ers Tentative Deal to Stay at Candlestick

 

Highlights:

49ers agree to tentative agreement to stay at Candlestick Park through 2014.

Newer revenue sharing agreements with City of San Francisco.

New stadium still "on schedule" for 2015.

 

 

Well I know im not going back to a 49ers game until after 2014. Candlestick park is horrible, while I was there a few years ago there were no cupholders, at all and getting to and from the stadium was a nightmare.

 

 

As for CGA itself.. that place when down hill when they put in a water park, inside the park that you have to pay extra for. They also tore out northern california's ONLY flying roller coaster to make room for it. Since that water park has opened, one kid has already drowned and the flat rides, psycho mouse horrible. Well, psycho mouse isn't bad but the lines for it are simply too long due to the capacity of the ride. Same thing happens with tony hawk at SFDK.

[Sunfire]

^The water park is free with park admission.

 

However, I think the park started going downhill after they took out Tidal Wave/Greezed Lightnin'.

[Angry_Gumball]

Since that water park has opened, one kid has already drowned and the flat rides, psycho mouse horrible.

Ok...the drowning was due to parent negligence, wouldn't really blame the water park in this respect...the mother was soaking the sun as her 4-year-old went off to the 2-foot section. Unfortunately, only a couple other young kids were with him...can't expect young kids to babysit another young one. Wave pools in general are notorious for the possibilities of drowning. CGA (in my opinion) has a great collection of flat rides, can blow SFMM right out of the water in this department, can rival SCBB in terms of quantity). Psycho Mouse I find fun but hard to get on also due to long waits. Can't this thing run more than 2 mice at a time? If not, why have all the block brakes then?

 

I know this has probably been mentioned before, but it seems as a whole, the bay area seems to be a home to neglected parks. There are 2 water parks in the area as well that haven't seen any major attraction. Waterworld Concord's last big attraction was the Tornado several years ago, and Raging waters, Dragon's Den (Toilet bowl) also many many years ago. I can't really include the Boardwalk as they are always seeing something new. SFDK may have been slacking off anything major since the addition and removal of Zonga up to the addition of Big Spin (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not including the kids areas).

 

I'm sure that the park management realizes that their attendance is bound to drop like flies as it is already and realizes it's hard to pull in people when there is nothing new to give them a reason to come in the first place. But we're talking corporate here, who makes the decisions...perhaps they aren't the brightest of people? (my cousin's philosophy about corporate decisions in general, not specific to theme parks). We all realize they have what seems to be their 'favorites' in regards to parks, and their "closet parks" in which will eventually see something if they feel in the mood. Well, that's how it seems from an amusement park visitor's perspective.

 

As little good as me saying this is, I hope that some day, they'll begin seeing something. It seems as though as this slump began when Paramount decided to rip out many of their classics with no replacement. Today, the park is just being left to face what could be a slow painful death (which I hope does not happen).

[Columbia]

Possibly some small light at the end of the tunnel for CGA. Just ran on local channel KTVU:

49ers Tentative Deal to Stay at Candlestick

 

Highlights:

49ers agree to tentative agreement to stay at Candlestick Park through 2014.

Newer revenue sharing agreements with City of San Francisco.

New stadium still "on schedule" for 2015.

 

 

Well I know im not going back to a 49ers game until after 2014. Candlestick park is horrible, while I was there a few years ago there were no cupholders, at all and getting to and from the stadium was a nightmare.

 

 

As for CGA itself.. that place when down hill when they put in a water park, inside the park that you have to pay extra for. They also tore out northern california's ONLY flying roller coaster to make room for it. Since that water park has opened, one kid has already drowned and the flat rides, psycho mouse horrible. Well, psycho mouse isn't bad but the lines for it are simply too long due to the capacity of the ride. Same thing happens with tony hawk at SFDK.

 

1.) Stealth was a maintenance NIGHTMARE. It was always down and racked up tons of complaints from guests who blew most of their day waiting the "standard" three (3) hour wait. Despite being the "only of it's kind" it was also a pain in the neck. On it's last official "run" the large pin that held the seats parallel to the track failed to lock securely and the seats slammed loudly throughout the circuit. (I was in Yankee Harbor at the time). It never ran again at then PGA.

 

2.) The park was going downhill FAR earlier than at the removal of Stealth in 2004. It was actually (IMHO) in 2001, when they ripped out the scenic train for the Thrust Air 2000 prototype that never arrived. That was also the year there were more up-charge attractions and the Pictorium saw it's last regularly scheduled film.

 

As for the "blocking" on Psycho Mouse - I've never understood it either.

[Tmcdllr]

^ That's odd, over my many visits to the park through the years Stealth was there and the numerous times I rode it never once was it down. And sure, the line was always long as obviously it was the most popular ride ever in the park. Actually this is the first time I have ever come across somebody referring to it as a maintenance nightmare. Even if it did require a lot of maintenance you have to kind of expect that with a ptototype.

 

Psycho mouse seems to have a case of over blocking, all that is not necessary if they are only going to run a few mice.

[ABW]

It just blows me to pieces that, then PGA would take out their most popular ride, and just send it to a park that never really needed it. It was known as the best ride in Northern Califonia. Paramount's sure mad some horible decisions back then that costed them alot of attendence.

[John Knotts]

Yeah Thrust Air and Stealth...lol Two stellar rides right there (sarcasm).

 

I'm not so sure the park itself went down hill until the last few years under Cedar Fair. It's just the lack of exciting investments made the park a bore to visit. If CF were to suddenly add two modern coasters ( say a GCI and an Intamin launch), the park's stock would pick right back up.

 

This is one of those cases where coasters (or lack there of) really do make the difference.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^Very true indeed. Take away Xcelerator and Silver Bullet from Knotts and all of a sudden whatever recognition they have suddenly dissipates....

[ABW]

Yeah Thrust Air and Stealth...lol Two stellar rides right there (sarcasm).

 

I'm not so sure the park itself went down hill until the last few years under Cedar Fair. It's just the lack of exciting investments made the park a bore to visit. If CF were to suddenly add two modern coasters ( say a GCI and an Intamin launch), the park's stock would pick right back up.

 

This is one of those cases where coasters (or lack there of) really do make the difference.

 

While I don't know how Thrust Air would end up at Great America (although having an 80 mph launch coaster in Northern California would be quite an appeal), both coasters would bring in something the park really needs: attendence. Stealth, is the ride that brought the park in three (3) hour lines. The tagline "Northern California's only flying coaster" made it the star attraction of Northern California. They took it out, and guess what happens? Attendence drops. So while you may joke about how those weren't great rides (which is your opinion, and I respect it), it's just not the bottom line for the theme park. Having those rides at Great America today would, at least give a better variety of experiences.

[Columbia]

Yeah Thrust Air and Stealth...lol Two stellar rides right there (sarcasm).

 

I'm not so sure the park itself went down hill until the last few years under Cedar Fair. It's just the lack of exciting investments made the park a bore to visit. If CF were to suddenly add two modern coasters ( say a GCI and an Intamin launch), the park's stock would pick right back up.

 

This is one of those cases where coasters (or lack there of) really do make the difference.

 

While I don't know how Thrust Air would end up at Great America (although having an 80 mph launch coaster in Northern California would be quite an appeal), both coasters would bring in something the park really needs: attendence. Stealth, is the ride that brought the park in three (3) hour lines. The tagline "Northern California's only flying coaster" made it the star attraction of Northern California. They took it out, and guess what happens? Attendence drops. So while you may joke about how those weren't great rides (which is your opinion, and I respect it), it's just not the bottom line for the theme park. Having those rides at Great America today would, at least give a better variety of experiences.

 

Actually, working at the park during this time - attendance was UP after Stealth was taken out. The whole family could enjoy a waterpark, only those 54" and up could enjoy Stealth. Now, when the park did not add to the rest of the park during this time, attendance slipped to it's current level, but it was not based on the removal of Stealth alone.

 

Variety was the reason for the removal of the ride. While PGA had coasters, they didn't have a waterpark, like many of the other "temperate" Paramount Parks at the time. So, would keeping Stealth give a better variety to the park? Personally, I don't think so. A park filled with coasters does not work (See Magic Mountain circa 1999-2008) what CGA needed then and needs even more today is SOMETHING, ANYTHING NEW. Something marketable that you can RIDE and see, not watch. (I.E. rides of all types in addition to shows.)

 

Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that Stealth had a long line because of it's popularity...while it's true that the coaster was indeed popular with guests, it was it's throughput or capacity that caused those infamously long lines. In an ideal world, the capacity was expected to be around 1200 guests per hour.* (Unconfirmed) But depending on guests, dispatching etc., it was usually well below that, into the mid-to high triple digits, hence the long line.

 

Agreed on the point that a few consecutive years' worth of good capital, such as an Intamin / Premier Launch, a small woodie and some decent flats and you've got a 1000% stock increase in the park in terms of the GP and industry...the question seems to be whether C.F. can use the proposed 49ers stadium as a means to back out of the lease (and park) they signed up for when they purchased the Paramount Parks in their entirety.

[John Knotts]

^ Yeah considering the "extra" low capacity for Stealth, and the disaster of Hypersonic at KD, neither ride would have helped CGA long term. CGA needs another stellar B&M (Flight Deck) or something that will attract people to the park, and then DELIVER once they get there.

[ABW]

^That would never hapen in a million years.

[CoasterBeagle]

Possibly some small light at the end of the tunnel for CGA. Just ran on local channel KTVU:

49ers Tentative Deal to Stay at Candlestick

 

Highlights:

49ers agree to tentative agreement to stay at Candlestick Park through 2014.

Newer revenue sharing agreements with City of San Francisco.

New stadium still "on schedule" for 2015.

 

 

Well I know im not going back to a 49ers game until after 2014. Candlestick park is horrible, while I was there a few years ago there were no cupholders, at all and getting to and from the stadium was a nightmare.

 

 

As for CGA itself.. that place when down hill when they put in a water park, inside the park that you have to pay extra for. They also tore out northern california's ONLY flying roller coaster to make room for it. Since that water park has opened, one kid has already drowned and the flat rides, psycho mouse horrible. Well, psycho mouse isn't bad but the lines for it are simply too long due to the capacity of the ride. Same thing happens with tony hawk at SFDK.

 

 

Well stealth was relocated to Carowinds and now named nighthawk

[Angry_Gumball]

On a random note, in regards to CGA, today I was helping clean out our attic and came across a brochure from 1999 for Great America. KidZville was the newest attraction followed by Invertigo. They were also still showing Imax films, not sure when they actually stopped the showings. On the back had it's operation calendar which honestly is not that different than what we have today (after the Cedar Fair purchase. The summer months had a 10AM-10PM schedule on the weekend, and open until midnight on the 4th of July. No halloween events other than what they had for the kids. Maybe when I get a chance, I'll scan it to share with you guys.

 

Also, did Paramount Parks ever operate Raging Waters? For some reason, they were advertising RW on the back. I remember for the longest time RW was on the back of the park maps since I was younger.

[ABW]

That would be awesome if you could show us. I'd love to see that! As for Raging Waters, I know for a face that for now at least, all three parks are owend by Palace Entertainment. Palace, has been around ever since 1998. So, I'd assume that it's been owned by Palece since 1998 because it otherwise would've stated that they bought Raging Waters later. Paramount, was kind of like Six Flags was in that they're kind of what I would call a "sellout company" where they will advertise anything they can to get more revenue. Since Raging Waters was nearby, it seems very likely that Paramount was just offered a deal to advertise them, and I think that must've been what happened.

[Columbia]

For at least once season, Paramount did indeed run Raging Waters in East San Jose. Your Season Pass from Great America was good for admission at either one. (But not your season pass to Raging Waters). Amazingly, this *could* have worked out, given that they would not have to invest their own capital into an all new park - but from what I have understood, it was not profitable enough (or at all) for then Paramount to continue with the deal.

[ABW]

Really? That's a suprise, I can see why Paramunt dropped it though.

[Tmcdllr]

Yes, please put SOMETHING NEW in this park....please!

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

Does a Johnny Rockets count as something new?

[rolercstrluvr]

^ I don't think CGA needs another restaurant in the park. Just this past season we got a Panda Express, so I don't think we need that. What CGA needs is a new roller coaster to bring back the crowds.

[ABW]

^I believe it's called sarcasm.