California Great America (CGA) Discussion Thread

[Tmcdllr]

Of course! But we have to post about something we can totally blow out of proportion!

[Angry_Gumball]

As previously mentioned, you all assume just because a guest is in a wheelchair means they can't walk or stand on their own, which is not the case. Remember that there is still the bottom portion of the restraints which guests can sit on as needed.

What are the standup coaster safety requirements anyway, as in what guests may not ride if...?

Edited February 24, 2012 by Angry_Gumball

[QueerRudie]

OK: Now I'm very angry.

 

As a HANDICAPPED PERSON myself, and one who needs assistance in parks to board/unload from rides, I think it's about time that parks install elevators for ALL attractions with stairs.

 

For me, and around 40% of disabled/handicapped park visitors, stairs are an obstacle that is like climbing a steep mountain to work with. It is dangerous for us to try to go up them, as very often one or both of our legs may not be able to handle it. In other cases, you will find people who cannot fully use the a foot- making balance nearly impossible across the board for movement/walking. And in some cases, people in wheelchairs are also able to ride these attractions- even standup coasters, as they may have a condition which makes walking difficult for long periods. This could be anything from a muscular issue, or neurological disorder that makes walking hard. In my case, I've got M.S. (Multiple Sclerosis) where I have very little function in one leg, and partial function in another. I can still stand just fine, I can get around with assitance just fine- but stairs to me are nearly impossible to work with- without a great deal of effort.

 

For those who have been joking why a person in a wheelchair might ride a standup coaster: Look to those of us in TPR- and outside of it- who don't use chairs. Those elevators are for not only chairbound guests, but also those of us with mobility impairments that cannot negotiate stairs.

 

And I really am sick that people would joke about this. It's terribly disappointing to me that people cannot understand that there are guests in a park who like to ride coasters, and should have access to every attraction.

 

R.D.

Surviving with MS for 16 years and PROUDLY HANDICAPPED.

[larrygator]

^Thanks RD - was hoping you would chime in to provide some education and enlightenment on the topic.

[cfc]

^Agreed. It's good to get the perspective from someone in the know, rather than the ignorance of others.

[jray21]

^^^Thanks for that QueerRudie! I hate to go off on another tangent, but what about water parks (CGA does have one so I guess it's not that off topic)? How are they able to get around things like having elevators for their towers? I've never understood how they have.

[QueerRudie]

^^^Thanks for that QueerRudie! I hate to go off on another tangent, but what about water parks (CGA does have one so I guess it's not that off topic)? How are they able to get around things like having elevators for their towers? I've never understood how they have.

 

Under the A.D.A. regulations, Waterparks are exempt provided they have at least 50% of the available capacity of their attractions' capacities accesible via either ramp/immersion points (Lazy rivers, wave pools, etc.). Since the overall capacity of most waterslides is quite low, a single wave pool and lazy river are enough to ensure exemption from that regulation.

 

However, with the advent of things like the Aquaveyor and the Master Blasters, there are more accessible attractions for the handicapped/mobility impared. Parks like Wild Wavi and Schlitterbahn are doing things right.

 

(However, I still don't do water. There is an unacceptable amount of wetness involved with waterparks...)

 

R.D.

[RAWKIN_coaster38]

I'm sorry if you felt insulted by our comments, QR, or anyone else. I didn't mean for my comments to come across the way they probably did. My first reaction was to imagine wheelchair-bound people (with zero use of legs) trying to ride a stand-up coaster, but I realized soon after that there are lots of other reasons someone might request a wheelchair ramp. I didn't even think of the stair thing either.

 

I want to apologize and I think the others would agree with me about the first reaction thing, but it was wrong for us to laugh at. I can imagine the frustration you would have with parks that don't offer elevators. Will you accept my apology?

[Angry_Gumball]

I also apologize if I came off in a "humorous" manner as well. Like mentioned my instinctive, uneducated thoughts were of people fully paralyzed and forgetting those who may use a walking aid. Also what came to mind was the dude who got thrown from Ride of Steel, leading me to wonder how a situation would work out with a standup beaides uncomfortable. The humor of discomfort on standups goes back to when my cousin was playing the hop along game on Riddlers when the seats locked as his feet were off the floor. He had a pretty uncomfortable ride. Again I apologize if I came off offensive and insensitive to the handicapped community.

[australianalex]

Ah ok, I assumed handicapped people wouldn't be allowed on a Standup coaster, but I guess I was thinking more about people who can't stand at all, instead of ones that just can't climb stairs.

[cal1br3tto]

Requirements aside, I thought it seemed pretty obvious that someone could both need (or strongly benefit from) the lift and be qualified to ride the coaster. I'm glad that is now understood in this thread.

[Tmcdllr]

I understand the point and I didnt joke about it, I was asking questions mostly. I still would like to know...is a handicapped person who cannot use their legs allowed to ride a stand up coaster or is there a safety reason to prevent that?

[The49er]

OK: Now I'm very angry.

 

As a HANDICAPPED PERSON myself, and one who needs assistance in parks to board/unload from rides, I think it's about time that parks install elevators for ALL attractions with stairs.

 

For me, and around 40% of disabled/handicapped park visitors, stairs are an obstacle that is like climbing a steep mountain to work with. It is dangerous for us to try to go up them, as very often one or both of our legs may not be able to handle it. In other cases, you will find people who cannot fully use the a foot- making balance nearly impossible across the board for movement/walking. And in some cases, people in wheelchairs are also able to ride these attractions- even standup coasters, as they may have a condition which makes walking difficult for long periods. This could be anything from a muscular issue, or neurological disorder that makes walking hard. In my case, I've got M.S. (Multiple Sclerosis) where I have very little function in one leg, and partial function in another. I can still stand just fine, I can get around with assitance just fine- but stairs to me are nearly impossible to work with- without a great deal of effort.

 

For those who have been joking why a person in a wheelchair might ride a standup coaster: Look to those of us in TPR- and outside of it- who don't use chairs. Those elevators are for not only chairbound guests, but also those of us with mobility impairments that cannot negotiate stairs.

 

And I really am sick that people would joke about this. It's terribly disappointing to me that people cannot understand that there are guests in a park who like to ride coasters, and should have access to every attraction.

 

R.D.

Surviving with MS for 16 years and PROUDLY HANDICAPPED.

 

I'm so sorry. I just figured if they had a wheelchair that it would be pointless.

[Angry_Gumball]

Switching gears here, perhaps something more positive.

 

Sure is coming along nicely. Initially I thought it was going to be all gold trim like in the early days but it looks like it will be the gold and blue like it was previously. (as there is unpainted trim. You would think it it were also to be gold, it would be painted aready)..but fresh shiny gold this time! Wasn't the reflection pool recently repainted? I could swear it seemed to be more of a vibrant blue beginning 2010 season.

[CoasterBeagle]

Also a good reasoning for the lift is if a parent who can't ride but their child can; But they dont want to leave them waiting It's happened at flight deck before and we had to find out if that situation was ok for the kid to ride. So something like that would be good. What I don't get is how great America got away with it in the first place? Was there no ADA regulations whenever the rides were being built?

[QueerRudie]

Also a good reasoning for the lift is if a parent who can't ride but their child can; But they dont want to leave them waiting It's happened at flight deck before and we had to find out if that situation was ok for the kid to ride. So something like that would be good. What I don't get is how great America got away with it in the first place? Was there no ADA regulations whenever the rides were being built?

 

Yes and no to the A.D.A. question:

 

The 'current' version of the A.D.A. dates to 1995- when 100% accessibility was required by the government for all major attractions not only at theme parks, but also museums, etc. (Large-scale buildings/locations.) Any attraction dating after 1995 had to be built with one of two different systems:

 

1.) Fully integrated entry/access to a ride, show or attraction- such as what Knotts did with Windseeker.

2.) A dedicated entry route that has wheelchair accessible minimums of 36 inches, and a slope/ramp gradient of less than 12.5 degrees, or an elevator/lift system.

 

One or the other MUST be integrated into a park for all attractions 1995 on.

 

However, many parks have either retrofitted or added systems for handicapped access- a few better than others, but most are now covered for all guests. In the case of Great America, they are choosing to retrofit existing attractions with lifts.

 

R.D.

[CoasterBeagle]

Also a good reasoning for the lift is if a parent who can't ride but their child can; But they dont want to leave them waiting It's happened at flight deck before and we had to find out if that situation was ok for the kid to ride. So something like that would be good. What I don't get is how great America got away with it in the first place? Was there no ADA regulations whenever the rides were being built?

 

Yes and no to the A.D.A. question:

 

The 'current' version of the A.D.A. dates to 1995- when 100% accessibility was required by the government for all major attractions not only at theme parks, but also museums, etc. (Large-scale buildings/locations.) Any attraction dating after 1995 had to be built with one of two different systems:

 

1.) Fully integrated entry/access to a ride, show or attraction- such as what Knotts did with Windseeker.

2.) A dedicated entry route that has wheelchair accessible minimums of 36 inches, and a slope/ramp gradient of less than 12.5 degrees, or an elevator/lift system.

 

One or the other MUST be integrated into a park for all attractions 1995 on.

 

However, many parks have either retrofitted or added systems for handicapped access- a few better than others, but most are now covered for all guests. In the case of Great America, they are choosing to retrofit existing attractions with lifts.

 

R.D.

 

Thank you for clarifying.

[Tmcdllr]

Also a good reasoning for the lift is if a parent who can't ride but their child can; But they dont want to leave them waiting It's happened at flight deck before and we had to find out if that situation was ok for the kid to ride. So something like that would be good. What I don't get is how great America got away with it in the first place? Was there no ADA regulations whenever the rides were being built?

 

Yes and no to the A.D.A. question:

 

The 'current' version of the A.D.A. dates to 1995- when 100% accessibility was required by the government for all major attractions not only at theme parks, but also museums, etc. (Large-scale buildings/locations.) Any attraction dating after 1995 had to be built with one of two different systems:

 

1.) Fully integrated entry/access to a ride, show or attraction- such as what Knotts did with Windseeker.

2.) A dedicated entry route that has wheelchair accessible minimums of 36 inches, and a slope/ramp gradient of less than 12.5 degrees, or an elevator/lift system.

 

One or the other MUST be integrated into a park for all attractions 1995 on.

 

However, many parks have either retrofitted or added systems for handicapped access- a few better than others, but most are now covered for all guests. In the case of Great America, they are choosing to retrofit existing attractions with lifts.

 

R.D.

 

I think in some situations where space is limited the lifts are a great idea.

[QueerRudie]

^ Agreed completely- Lifts make life a LOT easier in many ways... Case in point:

 

Goliath at SFoG has the WORST ramp system ever devised by man. Not only are they long- as in you have to go up about three stories (34 feet) to get to the platform, but they wind around in an odd way, making sure you're going up in different angles and pathways. To even GET to the ramps, you have to go through a narrow, crowded gift shop- which for a person in a chair is difficult to negotiate. To make things worse, you have the outflow of people off Goliath at the same time snarling traffic while you're trying to get to the platform, and then there are the stragglers/waiters outside the gate, making it nearly impossible to get to the top easily.

 

Parks are quickly becoming wise to the problems with ramps to a ride- and that a lift entryway/queue makes a lot of sense, and saves space. Effortwise, it takes a lot of the stress off of those of us who are handicapped, as it's less walking/climbing to get to the platform, and after a day at a park, every bit helps out tremendously.

[Tmcdllr]

And I will agree with that. I can understand how labrynthian ramp systems can be very stressful, I think the lifts are just plain better all around, they save space and make it very easy for a person in a chair to get to one level or another. Why don't any of these wonderful coaster manufacturers design something like this?

[Angry_Gumball]

One of the things that's made me wonder: in a case of a Top Spin, how do those work out? Especially with Firefall's situation with the narrow walk to your seats? Are they just assisted up the gondola (quite a large step) and just take an end seat?

 

And skipping ahead to Haunt, what are the requirements for the mazes since...they're mazes with tight corridors and plenty of guests around? How would a wheelchair-bound guest get through?

 

All of this stuff is reminding me of the sidewalks they had just redone along the main road by my house...extremely narrow, just wide enough for a wheel chair to go through. Any other pedestrian would either have to step out into the gutter to let them pass or step on one's front lawn.

[liftsifter]

It's pretty fascinating to see BOTH Great America parks doing hard-core rehab work on the carousels! Although, I do think more work is being done at CGAm.

[QueerRudie]

One of the things that's made me wonder: in a case of a Top Spin, how do those work out? Especially with Firefall's situation with the narrow walk to your seats? Are they just assisted up the gondola (quite a large step) and just take an end seat?

 

And skipping ahead to Haunt, what are the requirements for the mazes since...they're mazes with tight corridors and plenty of guests around? How would a wheelchair-bound guest get through?

 

All of this stuff is reminding me of the sidewalks they had just redone along the main road by my house...extremely narrow, just wide enough for a wheel chair to go through. Any other pedestrian would either have to step out into the gutter to let them pass or step on one's front lawn.

 

In the case of things like a TopSpin, etc. most parks will usually allot the end seats if there is a handicapped guest for access- however, parks are exempt in some cases if there are integral stairs (I.E. the guest must leave the chair and ascend up). Usually, if this is the case, the person who's chairbound will have somebody to assist getting them off/onto a ride.

 

In my case, I try to have at least one person with me in a park- as some rides/attractions require some help getting into/out of the vehicles. Most of the rides designed prior to 1990 are not that easy to access- for example, Arrow's Suspended cars, and looping vehicles. These have higher sides than most new vehicles- and in the case of the suspended coasters, require me to sit on the hood of the car, and slide in backwards to access the seats. Not fun- and in some cases, quite funny. A second person can help here by giving me a support to slide down into the car with.

 

Flat rides, especially earlier builds, can be terribly difficult to get into. Schwarzkopf's Enterprise wheels are nearly impossible to get me into easily- and usually requires one person to hold the gondola, and one person to help me get into it!

 

The A.D.A. does allot exemptions for flat rides for the most part- provided that most people can access the ride with assistance from another person.

[jab88]

One of the things that's made me wonder: in a case of a Top Spin, how do those work out? Especially with Firefall's situation with the narrow walk to your seats? Are they just assisted up the gondola (quite a large step) and just take an end seat?

 

When I worked exit at Firefall, it was much like QueerRudie described with wheelchair access. The guest would show the boarding pass first and we'd usually have them wait at the first bend in the ramp until the next ride cycle. After the cycle was up, I'd have them come up and wait near the top while the riders exit. The person at control would hold the entry gate and the guest in the wheelchair would come up to the gondola and board the end seat on the first row, usually using the step first and then going onto the gondola, along with assistance from someone with them. I never had any problems with the guest boarding the ride this way during the two seasons I spent at Firefall.

[Nibbler]

And skipping ahead to Haunt, what are the requirements for the mazes since...they're mazes with tight corridors and plenty of guests around? How would a wheelchair-bound guest get through?

 

All maze cooridors are wide enough to provide access via wheelchair, in the case of TF and Slaughterhouse, the claustraphobia halls can be deflated to allow said wheelchair to pass through. If the guest can walk through the maze however cannot get through the queue line (Example being CarnEvil's queue) there are separate entrance points into the maze.