10 year old arrested for bringing steak knife to school

[RIP Psyclone]

I'm guessing the mother most likely packed the knife. How many kids pack their own lunch? All I meant was that not every infraction needs to be dealt with sticking to the book, fullest extent of the law, etc. If your friend was drunk in public making a scene you would give him a ride home, not call the cops on him. In this case, I think the teacher acted appropriately.

[coaster05]

^Almost every student I have taught in the last eight years would have been in charge of packing their own lunch. they are usually in charge of laundry and babysitting their siblings, and countless other things that no child their age should be in charge of.

[larrygator]

I'm guessing the mother most likely packed the knife. How many kids pack their own lunch? All I meant was that not every infraction needs to be dealt with sticking to the book, fullest extent of the law, etc. If your friend was drunk in public making a scene you would give him a ride home, not call the cops on him. In this case, I think the teacher acted appropriately.

 

If a person you barely knew on a plane pulled out a box cutter or tries to light his shoe would you let someone in authority know? If you saw someone in a mall with a gun inside his trench coat would you let someone know? If you were walking across the street and a hit and run driver hit someone and you were the only witness and you saw the license plate number would you stick around and report it?

 

Now imagine these same scenarios if you were mall security, a flight attendant or a cop.

 

OK, in the first set a of scenarios you are a private citizen but in the second set you are on the job. To me you have a moral obligation in the first set and a duty in the second.

 

Your analogy is as foolish as your point of view.

 

Explain how someone following a set of rules in one's job is inappropriate. What do you do for a living?

 

How about everyone stop getting on the teacher case as the teacher probably only report it to the principal who probably had someone actually call the cops.

[niiicolaaah]

This thread should be locked. The debate is pointless. Schools have policies, teachers that don't follow the policies could lose their teaching license and their entire career, the teacher was following procedures, screw all you people who said the teacher overreacted.

 

What if the teacher didn't say anything about the knife, but some other students in the class saw it and went home and told their parents, then the parents came to the school and complained? The teacher would lose their job and it would be a huge controversy. So no matter which way the teacher acted, it would reflect negatively on them. Might as well follow procedure and act in the interest of everybody in the school, instead of making special allowances for specific people, putting everyone in the school's lives in potential danger, and putting his or her ENTIRE CAREER on the line.

 

I wish this stupid thread would just get locked.

[coaster05]

^There you go. To all the teenagers and the 36 year old who has no idea how schools really work, this discussion is over.

 

Can anyone of you, no matter the age, really say that you would risk your career, just so a 10 year old doesn't feel quite so much shame for doing something that wasn't that smart to begin with. If you can honestly say yes, not just say yes to argue, then you are a more naive man then me. I love my job, but NONE of my students are worth me risking my family, reputation, career, and all the work I put into college based on my judgment to go against the school policy and save them the embarassment of being caught doing something stupid. Not to mention the Principal would have had the final say on calling the cops anyway.

 

Rich "I can't do my job if I am fired" Bitner

[RIP Psyclone]

^^Well said. The fact of the matter here is that we're all saying what we'd do or what should have been done from an armchair. You don't really know until you're there. However, all I meant was that it was probably a hard decision for the teacher, but I think she made the right choice.

[Disney Dood]

What if the teacher didn't say anything about the knife, but some other students in the class saw it and went home and told their parents, then the parents came to the school and complained?

How many 10-year olds are going to go home and tell their parents? If the kid saw the knife, it's not like the kid's not gonna care. The kid's not gonna be like "woah, that girl's got a knife that she is clearly eating her steak with! I feel unsafe and I should act by notifying the nearest form of authority ASAP!"

[coaster05]

^You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 90% of the stuff kids see at school everyday is mentioned to a parent or older sibling. Lots of times it is the positive thing, but they also mention every negative thing. So many small mundane details of daily activity in class that never meant much to me, come back at parent/teacher conferences 10 weeks later. There is no way that kids would not have been talking about that knife. Heck my students inform me on every cell phone, gum , note and other trivial item. They would have told their parents.

 

And even if they didn't why can't you understand procedure, or loss of your job.

 

Seriously guys and you wonder why there is a sticky topic specifically addressed to the teens on this site. Almost every teenage response to this topic has shown no thought what so ever and has continued to disregard any information that 2 teachers have given on this topic. I feel sorry for all the good young posters on this site whose posts will get lumped into the teacher hating idiots that have posted in this thread.

 

I may actually buy my fifth graders presents when I return from Christmas break to reward them for their superior level of common sense compared to most people who are older then them that frequent this site.

 

Rich "thank the lord you are not in my class" Bitner

[coastrfreak2000]

Schools have rules, and they need to be enforced. The ten year old brought a knife to school, clearly broke the rules of the school and could have potentially put people in danger if the knife got in the wrong hands. The teacher acted properly and did what was necessary to properly and safely enforce a rule, yet people are saying it's ridiculous.

 

Funny, because I'm willing to bet these are the same people criticizing Six Flags, Cedar Fair and other companies for not enforcing their line jumping and no-smoking rules hard enough.

[65skylark]

How many 10-year olds are going to go home and tell their parents?

 

My daughter is ten. If she saw someone from school bring a STEAK LUNCH and a knife to cut it with, I guarantee it would be the first thing she told my wife when she got off the bus.

 

I just now got done reading this thread for the first time and my head literally hurts. This is not even a debatable issue of weather the teacher reacted properly. The student brought a knife to school. YOU CAN"T DO THAT! It is irrelevant weather or not the student knew this or not. It is irrelevant weather or not the student had any intention of using it for any other reason than cutting their food. The teacher was ONLY doing their job.

 

I have two kids in school. From a parents standpoint, I do not want any knives of any kind for any reason being brought into the school by another student. The teacher not only did their job, they did the right thing. Once the knife is there, any number of things could happen. It isn't about the girl being treated like a criminal, it is about not allowing a weapon on school grounds. That is the issue. I HOPE that the teachers at my children's school would have done exactly the same thing.

 

Justin "The world could use more teachers like Rich, his wife, and Nicole" Saxe.

[CommanderLock]

^You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 90% of the stuff kids see at school everyday is mentioned to a parent or older sibling. Lots of times it is the positive thing, but they also mention every negative thing. So many small mundane details of daily activity in class that never meant much to me, come back at parent/teacher conferences 10 weeks later. There is no way that kids would not have been talking about that knife. Heck my students inform me on every cell phone, gum, note and other trivial item. They would have told their parents.

Rich "thank the lord you are not in my class" Bitner

I worked at a Cub Scout camp and that can't be closer to the truth. Kids at that age WILL talk about what they saw, regardless of whether it was good or bad. They just feel the need to talk about things because you're the authority figure, whether 16 or 35 and above, and feel you need to know everything.

The staff always had to keep their mouths shut on sensitive topics, because [the kids] repeat things, whether you (or the parents) like it or not. Whether its out at Cub Scout camp or in the classroom, the same applies.

On-topic: The girl can be blamed. After previous comments, I can't say "The teacher overreacted", because kids sometimes have the most innocent intentions, but they don't think it through. They're immature, and should learn lessons and mature enough to think things through.

[dewthedew]

I go to a school right down the road from the school this happened at (sunrise elementary) i go to pine ridge high school. they literally called all Volusia county school students and told them there was a "threat" made at a local school... everyone was worried trying to figure out what happened. when i found out it was this i could not stop laughing about how the school system treated it!

[phazan]

I can understand why the teachers may have been alarmed (Some kid here brought in a knife and tried to kill someone), but still they should have just confiscated it and dealt with the girl themselves rather than call the police if they were that worried about it.

 

Maybe because it is against the law to bring a weapon into school. Seriously people this really can't be this hard to understand!

 

I just don't understand how this is not 1000% the kids fault. There is no one else to blame, at all. WE CAN"T HAVE WEAPONS IN SCHOOL.

 

Well she obviously wasn't going to hurt anyone. You ARE right that we can't have weapons in school, but the whole point of not allowing weapons is to stop the violence. She wasn't planning on using the knife for violence (obviously), so why should she be punished? I agree, she should be talked to, and be let known how serious it can be bringing a weapon to school, but punishing isn't doing anything. That's where whoever called the cops, should have used some common sense IMO.

 

They did use common sense they followed their school procedure. Why do none of the people on this thread who somehow believe this is ok ever acknowledge the fact that the rules must be the same for ALL the students? Why don't you guys realize they must follow the procedure this time, to be able to use the procedure in the future? I know why, because you are not looking at this from the teachers point of view.

 

Again knives ARE NOT ALLOWED in school. No exceptions, no reason.

 

As a side note for the immigration discussion. My school is 45% African American, 45% Latino and 10% white. My Latino students have easily been the best behaved and most motivated of all three groups during my career as a teacher.

 

At my work (Grochery store) we have a schedule, that tells me I have to bring in carts from the parking lot at a certain hour of my shift. Sometimes, they need something else to be done, but I can't do it, because the manager in charge makes me go by the list (Even though sometimes there are NO carts outside). Does this make sense?? The rules say I need to get carts, but nothing is getting done, and I could be doing something inside.

[coaster05]

Comparing shopping carts to the safety of children and the protection of your career as a teacher is one of the dumbest comparisions ever put forth on this site. They probably send you out to get the carts so they don't have to listen to your incoherent ramblings.

[phazan]

^I do my work there, without complaining. It's what they pay me for.

You still didn't answer my question though. Does it make sense to keep my out in the parking lot?? I'm not getting anything done, but I'm following the rules, so it MUST be good. Meanwhile someone slips on a spill, because no one was there to clean it up.[/u]

[coaster05]

What does you being in the parking lot have to do with looking the other way when a kid brings a knife to school. I have no experience working in a grocery store so I can't give an educated opinion on what to do, just like 90% of the people who say the teacher overreacted do not have the expertise to make that decision.

[HCOSurfer90]

Ok, I came here to show another teachers point of view. My mom has been an elementary school teacher for 25 years. I recently told her about this incident and here is her response.

 

In her opinion, calling the cops was a little over reactive. The only reason why my mom said it would be alright to call the cops would be if the child had a history of bad behavior or was a little "disturbed" in her words. She also said that if the child was a good child, with a history of good behavior, her school would take the child out of the cafeteria and take them to the office immediately to talk to the child about how bad it is to bring a knife to school, and ask how the knife got in her lunch box in the first place. In the words of another teacher, my own mother: the childs mother or father, whichever put the knife in the childs lunch box in the first place, is an idiot. Sorry if that was the wrong choice of word to use(idiot that is), but that's what my mom said.

[XII]

What if the teacher didn't say anything about the knife, but some other students in the class saw it and went home and told their parents, then the parents came to the school and complained?

How many 10-year olds are going to go home and tell their parents? If the kid saw the knife, it's not like the kid's not gonna care. The kid's not gonna be like "woah, that girl's got a knife that she is clearly eating her steak with! I feel unsafe and I should act by notifying the nearest form of authority ASAP!"

That's what would have happened if we lived in a perfect world, unfortunetly, we don't live in a perfect world and a number of things could have gone wrong. Some kid could have stolen the knife and started stabbing random kids or the girl could have cut off one of her fingers. Though calling the cops may have seemed extreme, the teacher would have got her ass chewed out if she didn't. Besides, the cops would basically be doing what the teacher should've done. Lecturing the girl on how it's not OK to bring a knife to school and maybe giving the parents a fine for allowing her to bring the knife. This discussion has gone on long enough.

[phazan]

What does you being in the parking lot have to do with looking the other way when a kid brings a knife to school. I have no experience working in a grocery store so I can't give an educated opinion on what to do, just like 90% of the people who say the teacher overreacted do not have the expertise to make that decision.

 

Ok, she was using the knife to eat her FOOD. We all know it's a serious thing...she could have had a serious talk...And my analogy makes perfect sense, your not listening to what I say. You already have your mind made up that your right and everyone else is wrong. Maybe YOUR the one who is wrong on this...considering, your one of the only people who think they didn't over-react.

BUT OH WAIT!!!! It's from a teachers POV, that makes it right. Everyone stand back!!! The teacher obviously has wayyyyy better logic than the rest of the world, because of the fact THEY are a teacher. NVM The majority of us are alllll wrong, becuase the teacher has better comon sense than us. [/sarcasm]

[gisco]

Wow, just Wow.

 

I’m going to work at 3:00 A.M. There are no other cars in sight. I come to a red light. Is it ok to run the red light? If a policeman happens to see me run the red light should he just ignore the law because there were no other cars around and the red light was after all an inconvenience for me?.

 

That's redic.

To arrest her, Fricken morons...seriously. I just don't get how there are so many people with no common sense.

I guess people don't realize there is a difference between a 10 year old school girl, and a trouble maker. They are usually easy to tell apart at first glance...

 

Key word here is usually. Since it is not 100% isn’t it better to be safe. How would you like to have your child stabbed with a knife at school and then find out that the other kid had brought a knife to school before but nothing really happened to her.

 

Well she obviously wasn't going to hurt anyone. You ARE right that we can't have weapons in school, but the whole point of not allowing weapons is to stop the violence. She wasn't planning on using the knife for violence (obviously), so why should she be punished? I agree, she should be talked to, and be let known how serious it can be bringing a weapon to school, but punishing isn't doing anything. That's where whoever called the cops, should have used some common sense IMO.

 

Again the key word is obviously. How is it obvious that she intended no harm. When I was in 6th grade a few years back I got into an altercation with another kid. He pulled a knife on me. He had been camping and forgot to take the knife out of his pocket. When we got into a shoving match he remembered the knife and pulled it on me.

What if the same thing would happen to this girl? Another kid is pestering her maybe older, maybe a group. How does anyone know with 100% certainty what she would do.

 

Someone just needs to go to this school, and slap the crap out of the faculty responsible for this. WTF! There should be a ZERO TOLLERENCE POLICY for stupidity, not steak knives.

 

If there was you would be banned.

 

Ok, she was using the knife to eat her FOOD. We all know it's a serious thing...she could have had a serious talk...And my analogy makes perfect sense, your not listening to what I say. You already have your mind made up that your right and everyone else is wrong. Maybe YOUR the one who is wrong on this...considering, your one of the only people who think they didn't over-react.

BUT OH WAIT!!!! It's from a teachers POV, that makes it right. Everyone stand back!!! The teacher obviously has wayyyyy better logic than the rest of the world, because of the fact THEY are a teacher. NVM The majority of us are alllll wrong, becuase the teacher has better comon sense than us. [/sarcasm]

 

Who is not listening? I have read all 7 pages of this thread and it sounds like you are not the one listening. What makes you right? Just because your not a teacher makes you right? What part of “It is not OK to break the law” don’t you understand? Your last argument shows just how week your position is when you resort to mud slinging. Maybe if you would have had a better teacher, like Rich, in school you would have been able to form better and more logical arguments.

[phazan]

Ok, but did you really think this girl was going to pull her steak knife on ANYONE?? I already said I agreed it's bad, and that it's NOT ok to bring a knife to school. I'm saying, that I think it's stupid to call the friggin' cops and have her arrested for it. Suspend her from school, have a serious talk with her..but arresting her is just plain redic.

Yeah it's better to be safe than sorry, but out of that extremely small chance for some crazy reason shes going to stop eating and stab someone (keep in mind this is a little girl in 6th-friggin' grade!), is it really worth scaring the crap out of her like that?? I mean...most people don't get arrested once in their life, and she has already been arrested for cutting her steak.

She could have learned her lesson without being arrested, is what I'm thinking. People like you (NO OFFENSE OR ANYTHING) are why we have many of these annoying rules and regulations now that keep innocent people from having fun...

I can just imagine it in five years from now...

*kid walks into a grochery store, walks passed the liquor aisle, and happens to pick up a wine bottle, wanting to look at the weird-shaped bottle. (stupid move...but still technically having alcohol in his hands)

police-HEY. YOUR BEING ARRESTED FOR HOLDING THAT ALCOHOL!

police2-Good thing we got him. There was a chance he could have stolen it and drove home drunk in his dad's car without his dad noticing! Yeah, the chances are small, but he could have KILLED someone driving drunk! Better to be safe than sorry!

 

But then again, I'm not a teacher, so what do I know

[Jew]

What does you being in the parking lot have to do with looking the other way when a kid brings a knife to school. I have no experience working in a grocery store so I can't give an educated opinion on what to do, just like 90% of the people who say the teacher overreacted do not have the expertise to make that decision.

 

Ok, she was using the knife to eat her FOOD. We all know it's a serious thing...she could have had a serious talk...And my analogy makes perfect sense, your not listening to what I say. You already have your mind made up that your right and everyone else is wrong. Maybe YOUR the one who is wrong on this...considering, your one of the only people who think they didn't over-react.

BUT OH WAIT!!!! It's from a teachers POV, that makes it right. Everyone stand back!!! The teacher obviously has wayyyyy better logic than the rest of the world, because of the fact THEY are a teacher. NVM The majority of us are alllll wrong, becuase the teacher has better comon sense than us. [/sarcasm]

 

Uhm...I don't know even know where to begin.

 

Lets say your the parent of a kid who was just stabbed at school. By another kid who stole (or found, or asked to borrow, or a million other possible scenarios how they ended up with this "harmless" knife) the knife from the girl. Or better yet, you child was accidentally stabbed by the knife. Or another 50,000 possible things that could go wrong resulting in your child being severely injured by a girl who obviously meant no harm. Is it OK your child was severely injured because the girl obviously meant no harm?

 

Your analogy also makes absolutely no sense at all. Not even taking into account the fact you're not breaking the law if you were to deviate from the list (as opposed to the girl who did break the law), you also don't have a career (salary, benefits, etc.) on the line if you deviate from the list. You also don't work for a government institution, and aren't going to have to answer to parents/media/etc. if anything went wrong (even assuming the worst case scenario of someone slipping and falling and dying because you couldn't clean up a spill--the managers ass is on the line, not yours). I could keep going on about why your comparison isn't a fair comparison at all...

 

By the way, it's been pointed out over and over and over again that all these possible scenarios are exactly why the policy is in place and must be followed all the time. I guess you were too busy accusing other people of not listening and might have missed those posts. You might have also noticed that Rich's opinion is the majority in this thread, but don't let all these little things get in the way of your sarcasm. That's totally how you prove your point, especially when your sarcasm is filled with internet shorthand and misspelled words.

 

And as a side note, your opinion is one of the many reasons our public education system sucks ass. Nobody has any respect for the teachers. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Rich is a teacher who cares about his students, so I don't think it's a stretch by any means to say his opinion is of much more value in this thread.

 

*kid walks into a grochery store, walks passed the liquor aisle, and happens to pick up a wine bottle, wanting to look at the weird-shaped bottle. (stupid move...but still technically having alcohol in his hands)

police-HEY. YOUR BEING ARRESTED FOR HOLDING THAT ALCOHOL!

police2-Good thing we got him. There was a chance he could have stolen it and drove home drunk in his dad's car without his dad noticing! Yeah, the chances are small, but he could have KILLED someone driving drunk! Better to be safe than sorry!

 

A minor holding a sealed bottle of alcohol in a super market is not against the law. No court would call that possession unless the intent of the kid was to steal or attempt to buy it with a fake ID (or have his parents buy it for him). A girl bringing a knife to school (no matter the circumstances) is.

 

People like you (NO OFFENSE OR ANYTHING) are why we have many of these annoying rules and regulations now that keep innocent people from having fun...

 

I have to disagree with you on that. I would venture to say that it is actually people like you who cause those "annoying rules and regulations" to be created. Because when your "innocent fun" goes wrong, it causes people to realize how stupid/dangerous/etc. it is. Of course, I don't see how something that is against the law (if we are relating this to what happened to the girl) could be "innocent" in the first place...

 

Oh, and now my official moderator note to this discussion: Lets not let it degrade to personal attacks. If you want to disagree, please do so in the proper manner.

[Chris Benvenuto]

^^^^^^ No metal untensils in school? BULL! the lunch staff probably do use them, anyway.

 

I mean, I'm not saying that's wrong. But come on, I think that all schools that serve hot lunch have metal cutting tools or something to serve pizza. Besides that random useless fact, I've brought a knife into school "not something I'm proud of though" for IEP's and I just carry them in a bag and usually our hall guards never have a problem with it! as long as it's not shown as a threat or seen uncovered.

 

There's common sense, Police, lack of common sense, Police, Teachers and adminstrative staff.

 

I've read everyone's opinions and my personal opinion falls somewhere between Rich's and Joey's. That's my opinion and my story plus my two cents, thank you.

[65skylark]

^ I'm really not sure if anything you said makes any sense whatsoever. Especially the part about your opinion falling somewhere in between Rich's and Joey's since they have the EXACT same opinion.

 

And just to be very clear to anyone reading this thread that thinks the teacher over-reacted. You most certainly ARE in the minority. I can not for the life of me understand why some of you don't get it. It really isn't that difficult to grasp. You can't have students bringing knives to school. Period. It DOES NOT MATTER if the student who brought the knife just wanted to cut their food with it. Surely, if you try really, really hard, you can understand why.

 

The police were called because they had to treat this in the exact same way they would treat a scenario in which a knife was brought to school for violent purposes. Again, this has been very logically explained by many of the posters in this thread who are in the MAJORITY opinion that the teacher responded correctly. You can not bend the rules for one student and not another. Especially a rule that is in place for the safety of everyone (students AND faculty) in the school. Even the teenagers reading this thread should have enough real life experience to understand that. If you don't, then you are in for one rude awakening sometime in the not too distant future.

[coaster05]

My favorite part about Phazan's attack on me was the adding of no offense to make everything he said seem ok.

 

For the last time, though it won't really be the last because once this thread goes to a new page most posters won't go back and actually read my point again so I will have to post it again like I am doing now.

 

1. In a situation like a weapon at school you must follow the procedure every time for the procedure to work the next time. You cannot make a judgement on this based on the previous behavior of the kid, because their are just to many variables once the knife has entered the school. You CANNOT let your student body see the knife and then see nothing happen to the girl. By doing that you open the rule up to debate the next time a weapon is shown in school.

 

2. I just don't see why we should feel sorry for a girl and family that has no common sense. Everyone in the school knows you are not supposed to bring knives into the building. As far as me being the reason for the rule, I got to go with no. My parents raised me with common sense and they were actually involved in my life so the knife would never have been in my lunch.

 

3. No teacher deserves to go through the legal and public mess that could have happened had they not reported the girl. Again if I "look the other way" and the students report what they saw to their parents, the parents call the principal, and the principal talks to me I am going to need a lawyer. Why would a teacher risk that to protect a 10 year old. Why save her from the embarassment at the risk of my career. To be honest this girl probably needed a wake up call if she was making decisions like that.

 

4. My favorite is the belief that because she is in 6th grade she couldn't possibly have caused problems. Phazan this is the age I teach. As these kids hit puberty you have NO IDEA what they might do. If she was dumb enough to bring the knife what would stop her from going the next step. I watch my students get in fights, get exposed to drugs and gang affiliations, and countless other things that 6 th graders have no reason to know. I do everything I can to educate them about these things, but that being said I would not want any student I have ever had thinking it was ok to carry a weapon into school. Our students do a great job reporting when things like this happen, the last thing I want is for them to think it is ok for her, but not ok for him.

 

I love my job and for you to hint at anything less is definately insulting to me. I would have made the exact same call as the teacher in the story did and I would make that call no matter the student. Because as much as I love them, it is no longer worth the risk.

 

Remeber this whole thing could have been avoided if the knife would have been left at home.