Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread

[CaptainUnknown]

It makes me wonder how and if this incident will affect the park and other halloween events throughout the country. How many will implement alternative Halloween experiences such as what Valleyfair and CGA are doing.

[KPfan]

5 hours ago, anonymouscactus said:

did anyone have a chance to do Malice in Wonderland or do the malice feast during the event?

I went through mAlice during the passholder event on Friday.  It was decent.  They mix some storytelling with the scenes, actors and scares.  I would consider going back through a 2nd time to choose the other path.  But I’m not sure I’d spend the $30 if I had to pay the standard upcharge fee. 

[AmyUD06]

15 minutes ago, CaptainUnknown said:

It makes me wonder how and if this incident will affect the park and other halloween events throughout the country. How many will implement alternative Halloween experiences such as what Valleyfair and CGA are doing.

What? This is a fluke incident that was caused by an abject failure of security protocols.

If all of the fights/riots at other Halloween events didn't stop them, this won't either. 

[CoasterNerd87]

If anything, you'll see security stepped up to make people feel safer. 

[KPfan]

Kennywood has their own security staff but they also contract armed officers from both the local boro as well as the county.  There is a seasonal police station onsite and there is backup provided by 2 police departments within a 2-5 mile radius.  

They implemented the Evolv security system recently in addition to the traditional baggage checks. 

I suspect that they will crack down harder on the chaperone policy and perhaps even consider implementing a no-bags policy.  

[AmyUD06]

3 hours ago, KPfan said:

They implemented the Evolv security system recently in addition to the traditional baggage checks. 

I suspect that they will crack down harder on the chaperone policy and perhaps even consider implementing a no-bags policy.  

Neither a chaperone policy nor a bag prohibition would have prevented this.

Either someone brought the firearm through the main gate, in which case the Evolv system (or the persons watching the screens) failed horribly, or the person was passed the firearm through one of the gaps in the single-wall perimeter fence that are directly accessible in the park and Kennywood Boulevard.

[prozach626]

You can usually find video of the fight that took place, from social media, but I'm coming up short. Just curious how it went down. Usually a bystander or a semi-involved party always records that shit, with the typical commentary.

 

Unrelated: Do they still have the two-beer limit?

[coneyislandchris]

Kennywood has announced some changes to their security protocols in the wake of this past weekend's incident.

[Rai Fox]

And there it is, the bag policies and chaperones, just as predicted.  Wouldn't have done anything to stop what happened, and going to be an absolute pain in the ass for half the guests.  Great decisions being made.

[bert425]

^ good.

make it difficult and then maybe this asinine behavior will stop.

[KPfan]

Knotts Berry Farm implemented similar policy with bag size limits and chaperones.  Will not be surprised if more parks adopt them as well.  

[AmyUD06]

7 hours ago, coneyislandchris said:

Kennywood has announced some changes to their security protocols in the wake of this past weekend's incident.

 

I'm at least happy that the bag limit includes purses that actually exist.

[willh51]

Random question since I've not ridden much from S&S lately.  I loved Hypersonic back in the day, but have yet to ride a Freespin, new launched coaster or Steel Curtain.

What are the issues with Steel Curtain?  It seems to be down a lot according to this thread and other sources I have seen, as well as only on one train when open.  I like to think traditional chain-lift loopers are pretty reliable, but this doesn't seem to be the case here.

[prozach626]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:25 AM, Rai Fox said:

And there it is, the bag policies and chaperones, just as predicted.  Wouldn't have done anything to stop what happened, and going to be an absolute pain in the ass for half the guests.  Great decisions being made.

How do you figure? I'm just curious.

How would you handle it?

[KPfan]

5 hours ago, willh51 said:

Random question since I've not ridden much from S&S lately.  I loved Hypersonic back in the day, but have yet to ride a Freespin, new launched coaster or Steel Curtain.

What are the issues with Steel Curtain?  It seems to be down a lot according to this thread and other sources I have seen, as well as only on one train when open.  I like to think traditional chain-lift loopers are pretty reliable, but this doesn't seem to be the case here.

I am not intimately familiar with all of what had been going on with Curtain.  I had heard that there may have been issues with the locking seatbelts that plagued the ride for some time.  But after the park worked with S&S this season, the ride has had far fewer issues.  Single train ops tend to be more of a maintenance/management call based on attendance figures and wait times.  But on most days the Curtain crew has been regularly cycling both trains.  

[FeelTheFORCE]

^ Hopefully they've figured it out, because it was nearly June before they had the 2nd train put together and running, and one-train ops in May were pretty painful.

[JT325]

The S&S coasters have operational/sensitivity issues... as with Maxx Force at Great America.  But here's a couple AWESOME things I also noticed:

1 - the seats are the most comfortable *new* coaster seats from anyone in a LONG time.  They don't cut off circulation, and they don't rack my boy parts.  You have room to move, opposite, say rmc, and it doesn't constrain my shoulders like Mack.  They don't ratchet down tighter either, all an important enjoyment factor for me.

2 - Maxx Force, at least, is a VERY smooth ride.  It doesn't have the Intamin GRIND found on rides such as Millenium Force, has no shaking or heavy vibration found on Hang Time at Knott's, and no noticeable rattling. 

To pull of the relative smoothness of a Schwarzkopf, oh yeah...  Way to go S&S.  So many have tried.

Maxx Force only runs one train now, they put the other one away (in the Dark Knight building).  Lemon chilld kid said it just sets up too much with 2 trains.  But look at your clearance coming out of a huge inversion into brakes and the immediate station - of course it will be sensitive.  Gotta stay in the SF budget I guess. 

[KPfan]

On 9/30/2022 at 10:23 AM, willh51 said:

4 minutes ago, JT325 said:

The S&S coasters have operational/sensitivity issues... as I see frequently with Maxx Force at Great America.  But here's a couple AWESOME things I also noticed:

1 - the seats are the most comfortable *new* coaster seats from anyone in a LONG time.  They don't cut off circulation, and they don't rack my boy parts.  You have room to move, opposite, say rmc.  They don't ratchet down tighter either, all an important enjoyment factor for me.

2 - Maxx Force, at least, is a VERY smooth ride.  It doesn't have the Intamin GRIND found on rides such as Millenium Force, has no shaking or heavy vibration found on Hang Time at Knott's, and no noticeable rattling. 

To pull of the relative smoothness of a Schwarzkopf, oh yeah...  Way to go S&S.  So many have tried.

But Maxx Force only runs one train now, they put the other one away (in the Dark Knight building).  They said it just sets up too much with 2 trains.  But look at your clearance coming out of a huge inversion into brakes and the immediate station.  Of course it will be sensitive.  Gotta stay in the SF budget.

Unfortunately Steel Curtain isn’t nearly as smooth as Maxx Force.  There’s noticeable vibration throughout the circuit but it’s stronger in certain sections.  I’m unsure if S&S used the same fabricator for both projects but it’s my opinion that the vibrations are due to the track.  

[JT325]

^Noted.  Bummer.  Anytime we get a lot of high up hijinks (hello Gerstlauer and your shaky one-car rides) we get lots of vibration.  No ball joints or hinge points, it's gotta shake.  Like an Arrow.

[Rai Fox]

On 9/30/2022 at 3:22 PM, prozach626 said:

How do you figure? I'm just curious.

How would you handle it?

I'm not against the extra security and police, though it's unfortunate since I'm sure it's both a significant expense for the park and another thing the local police probably didn't plan on having to deal with.

But the bag policies and chaperones?  Like Amy said earlier, either someone got a weapon through the scanners that already existed or (more likely if even a few of the people who were claiming to have been there on social media actually were) got it through or over the fence.  I don't see how banning bags helps if someone can just bypass security entirely like that.  Even single bag they see gets checked anyway, so no one is sneaking a weapon in inside one unless they're somehow sneaking the entire bag in anyway.  It's just a pain for the 50% of the population whose clothing designers haven't heard of pockets.  I'm usually the "group mom" when I do parks with friends and try to remember to bring along things like advil, dramamine, extra sunscreen etc etc to make sure no one's day ends up miserable.  It's much nicer when I have a place to put things like that.

As far as chaperones..I'm pretty fine with that just to stop the petty trouble kids get up to, but for preventing shootings, how many serious incidents are really caused by people under 17, who don't know anyone over 21 to get them in?

I don't know how the park should handle it, since this is a problem going far outside of any one park now, I just don't like seeing them making a big deal about how they're going to make it safer with policies that realistically aren't.

[prozach626]

10 hours ago, Rai Fox said:

As far as chaperones..I'm pretty fine with that just to stop the petty trouble kids get up to, but for preventing shootings, how many serious incidents are really caused by people under 17, who don't know anyone over 21 to get them in?

Probably more than you think, honestly. The majority of the shootings over the summer in the city I used to work for were from kids 15-17 years old, with no one over 18 in their crew. I know that's just one example, but the amount of large crowds of unsupervised kids being involved in violent crime is out of control.

I'm not saying I don't get a lot of your points, though.

[boldikus]

https://6abc.com/phantom-fall-fest-allegheny-county-west-mifflin-police-pennsylvania-amusement-park/12308853/

Quote

WEST MIFFLIN, Pennsylvania -- A 15-year-old has been arrested in last month's shooting at a western Pennsylvania amusement park that wounded three people, including two teenagers.

Allegheny County and West Mifflin police said last week that the teenager is being charged as an adult with aggravated assault, reckless endangering and firearms crimes in the Sept. 24 gunfire at Kennywood Park on the opening night of the park's Phantom Fall Fest.

Park officials said the late Saturday night shooting followed an altercation between two groups of teenagers near the Musik Express ride at the park in West Mifflin, southeast of Pittsburgh. A 39-year-old man and two 15-year-old boys were taken to hospitals with leg wounds, authorities said.

Investigators said last week that evidence recovered at the scene indicated that there were two guns fired, one of them by the teenager arrested. He himself was also grazed on the thigh by a bullet, and authorities are searching for a second suspect, which Christopher Kearns, the county police superintendent, said is "most likely" a juvenile.

Kennywood closed for the day after the shooting and announced new security measures including more police, more security along perimeter fences, limits on bag sizes and masks covering faces and requiring adult chaperones for all juveniles at all times during the Fall Fest, scheduled to run until mid-October.

Kearns said it remains unclear how the weapons got into the park, and investigators are still looking at the possibility that the weapons were tossed over the park fence or carried by someone jumping the fence. Officials said they are cutting down trees along the perimeter fence to improve visibility and installing new floodlights and security cameras to completely cover the fence line. They also vowed to "significantly" increase security patrols.

Authorities said they believe the gunfire stemmed from a feud between two groups of teenagers that has led to scores of shootings in several Mon Valley communities. Victor Joseph, county police assistant superintendent, cited 55 calls for shots fired in Duquesne and Homestead, the communities of the rival groups.

"We all know that this is a serious problem," Joseph said. "The people who live in these communities know how serious it is. People who have lost loved ones due to gun violence and incarceration know how devastating it is."

 

[prozach626]

Serious problem, indeed. The "teens" I encountered in the city I worked as a LEO over the summer were more dangerous than older people with prior felony convictions for assault, gun offenses, and other violent crimes. The "kids" would pull AR rifles on soccer moms stopped in traffic and try to take their cars.

The final straw for me leaving was watching surveillance video of one of several gun fights in a housing complex that looked like Call of Duty. Stolen cars and gunshots started becoming a common daily theme, especially during the weekends. I took 200 shell casings to the crime lab, just in one week, and those were the ones we actually recovered, being a fraction of the ones we didn't.

The "kids/teens" we charged in July were all out by September, despite also shooting in crowded places. Maybe they'll set an example this time and hold them for four months instead of three.

The suspect and others involved also know damned well who the other shooter was. I'm glad I took a pay cut to go to a much nicer community. Went from over twice the national crime average to half of the national crime average. I can sleep without prescription medication again... 

I say this because please, for your own safety, don't let your guard down just because you see what you perceive as a group of kids. They're more hardened than a lot of us will be in our lives and they won't hesitated to make you or your children victims. It's frightening. I wish I could take back what I know now.

[BitterOldHag]

I've decided to go to Kennywood tonight for PFF.  Has anyone been there in the past few weeks, and if so, do you think Speedy Pass is required?  I'm mainly going to get my Steel Curtain credit and also to get some night rides on Phantom's Revenge and try out the "lights out" version of Exterminator, so cutting off any wait times is worth the $90 in my opinion!

Thank you for any info!  

[KPfan]

2 minutes ago, BitterOldHag said:

I've decided to go to Kennywood tonight for PFF.  Has anyone been there in the past few weeks, and if so, do you think Speedy Pass is required?  I'm mainly going to get my Steel Curtain credit and also to get some night rides on Phantom's Revenge and try out the "lights out" version of Exterminator, so cutting off any wait times is worth the $90 in my opinion!

Thank you for any info!  

Fridays are usually light to moderate crowds.  There’s still local high school football games going on so that keeps some guests away.  Phantom and Curtain will probably be single train ops due to staffing challenges but lines should only be 30-45min (or less).  But since this is the last weekend of Phantom Fall Fest it’s possible that the crowd may be larger than usual.  
 

As far as Speedy pass, it kinda depends.  If you’re going to just get on the coasters then it’s probably not necessary.  But if you want to do coasters+haunts then it might be worth it depending on how much you want to cover in the 5 hours.