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Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread


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The fact that we haven't heard anything about it on the news in the last 2 years should give you an indication of whats going on with the project.

 

They have been working on the link to Uniontown for the past few years and are nearing completeion. I'm guessing after that section is finished they will focus more on the Pittsburgh metro area. Yes, work (and funding) has been slow, but it hasn't stopped.

 

Yes, that project has been under construction for several years now, but it was the only portion of the Mon Fayette Expressway that even began construction. The last news I heard in regards to the 51-I376 portion, was that it was in the final design phase back in 2004. However, I'm not sure if you knew about this, but their offices that were actually near Kennywood closed last year. Surely, that's not a good sign for the life of the 2 billion dollar project.

 

http://www.paturnpike.com/MonFaySB/pdf/Office%20Closing.PDF

 

And here's a map of the project that never started:

http://www.paturnpike.com/MonFaySB/51to376/images/projMapLG.gif

So as you can see, the Expressway was supposed to be very close to the park based on that map, and thats why it would have been such an economic benefit for them.

 

Lack of knowledge? No...

 

Could the park take out Turtle, Auto Race...

 

So I stand by...

 

I think what Robb was trying to say was that you'd be surprised at how much parks can expand without needing to remove anything at all. Which is something a lot of people don't realize. They think all these parks are "running out of room," and insist that rides will need to be removed for their next big project, when that isn't the case at all.

 

Yes, I agree a lot of parks have that opportunity, but like I said before, Kennywood doesn't. Unlike other parks they don't own that much land outside the current limits of the park. The Kennyville area has long been a rumored area of future expansion, but many of those houses are still being used by people. Much like with the Dollar General by the K-Mart, I wouldn't expect to see the park just kick them out of their house just becuase they own the land it sits on. Other than that, the only other land they might own outside the parks limits is the land behind the Racer, but last I heard they don't own it just yet.

 

So yes, once again I agree most parks have the priviledge of expanding without removing a lot of rides but I don't agreee Kennywood is one of those parks. As of now, they don't have that much empty land to house one or two flats, let along a new coaster in the near future and that's why I think it would be important for them to expand behind the Racer and Log Jammer in the near future.

 

 

Do you for one minute think that the park would have replaced a family favorite like the Turnpike for a new coaster if there was another plot of land they could have utilized instead?

 

 

There actually was another spot, but Palace wanted the coaster closer to the entrance.

 

And what spot was this? I don't know who told you this, but Sky Rocket and the various other coasters that Kennywood was deciding on were all designed to take the place of the Turnpike. There were a few rumors here and there that the Log Jammer was going to be replaced instead, but even if that was true they still would have had to replace another ride to build the coaster.

 

 

Do you for one minute think that the park would have replaced a family favorite like the Turnpike for a new coaster if there was another plot of land they could have utilized instead?

 

 

Is the removal of Turnpike permanent? I was under the impression that Turmpike would be put back in after Sky Rocket is completed.

 

Well, considering they cut up all the steel and track of the ride and threw it away, I will say this. You're not going to see the Turnpike at Kennywood with the same look that it had previously. The biggest problem the park had with the ride was the cars, so if they decide to rebuild "Turnpike", I won't be surprised if the park goes to Chance Rides to build them an all new car ride and just rename it Turnpike. But like I said, if it returns its going to need all new track and cars which is pretty much a new ride in itself.

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So I stand by my original statement. In terms of long term expansion, Kennywood's best bet is to finalize the purchase of the land behind the Racer.

 

Why does everyone keep saying this?!?! They've owned the land since 2006!

 

No, they haven't...they never finalized the sale. I've heard that Palace might have bought the land this offseason, but I'm not sure if thats 100% accurate or not.

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From the Post Gazzette...

In March 2006, the company bought 43 acres of adjacent land in Duquesne for $2.6 million.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the news articles. A friend of mine who works for the park said one of the things Palace proposed among other things when they took over the park was to finalize the purchase of that land behind the JR and Racer. I know they've owned the land that the old K-Mart used to occupy for several years now, but as for the land in question behind the Racer, they haven't owned that since 2006.

 

Notice how the only land they mentioned they purchased in any of the newer news articles is the land the current K-Mart sits on, not any of the land behind Racer.

 

http://www.wpxi.com/entertainment/4688760/detail.html#

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Yes, I agree a lot of parks have that opportunity, but like I said before, Kennywood doesn't. Unlike other parks they don't own that much land outside the current limits of the park. The Kennyville area has long been a rumored area of future expansion, but many of those houses are still being used by people. Much like with the Dollar General by the K-Mart, I wouldn't expect to see the park just kick them out of their house just becuase they own the land it sits on. Other than that, the only other land they might own outside the parks limits is the land behind the Racer, but last I heard they don't own it just yet.

 

So yes, once again I agree most parks have the priviledge of expanding without removing a lot of rides but I don't agreee Kennywood is one of those parks. As of now, they don't have that much empty land to house one or two flats, let along a new coaster in the near future and that's why I think it would be important for them to expand behind the Racer and Log Jammer in the near future.

 

I'm sure they can get creative some way or another. I highly doubt they are absolutely, 100% out of land. Just look at Cedar Point (now the size of the parks are different, but it's almost the exact same concept). How many years have people been saying that they are out of room because they are on a peninsula surrounded by water? Yet, they managed to build a 310 foot tall coaster by only moving a ferris wheel, a 215 foot Intamin impulse coaster by not removing anything major, and a 420 foot tall coaster by not removing anything major. Now, to build Maverick a log flume had to be removed, but they are building a completely new flume for Summer 2010 that required the removal of nothing.

 

Not to mention Steel Dragon 2000 in Japan. Would you have guessed that a 318 foot tall coaster could have been built on such a small strip of land? Picture.

 

Robb's example of KBF is a good one too. I've been there personally and saw how "landlocked" the park seemed, yet they keep adding coasters like no tomorrow.

 

My point being, don't underestimate the creativity of these parks. What may seem completely and utterly impossible, could very well be possible...and then some. Things are not always what they seem.

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Notice how the only land they mentioned they purchased in any of the newer news articles is the land the current K-Mart sits on, not any of the land behind Racer.

 

http://www.wpxi.com/entertainment/4688760/detail.html#

 

There is no mention of that land because the article is from July of 2005. Kennywood didn't purchase the land behind the Racer until March of 2006 according to DenDen's post above.

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"i know a friend of a friend of a friend"... (Just kidding.... ) Love it when this thread is on the top of the forums. hehehehe

 

When they obtained the land, Mary Lou herself went on PCN and made the ONLY statement back then, before the "expansion fiasco" later, that they had indeed obtained the land. A company can't say that unless the deal was final, otherwise, that's fraud. And to continue to state it during all the expansion reports, and then finally the sale to PR, why that would be fraud, especially against the new owners, and all the of old family owners.

 

The only thing I can think of that would make people feel otherwise was the stipulation that if the expressway was built, THEN they would start the expansion. People translate it as "Then we'll buy the place".

 

The average "Super Wal Mart" is 25 acres, and that K-mart is a FAR cry from that, and we're talking 43 acres. Sounds about right to me.

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I never said the park was completely out of space, but I did say that the park has very little OPEN room left. I could probably mention several open plots of land, such as the area between the Phantom's lift and first drop, but there really aren't that many left. Which is why I said it will be very hard for Kennywood to build new rides in the future without having to replace an older ride. Just think of all the parks newer rides, and which of those was built without having to replace another ride. I'm pretty sure you'd have to go all the way back to 1999 when the Exterminator was built since the park has built a ride that didn't replace another one.

 

Skyrocket is replacing Turnpike, Bayurn Kurve replaced Wipeout, Ghostwood Estate replaced Gold Rusher, Cosmic Chaos replaced Magic Carpet, SwingShot replaced Wipeout which replaced Bayurn Kurve, Garfield's Nightmare replaced Old Mill, Aero 360 replaced the Ferris Wheel, and even Pittfall replaced the park's flyers. I probably missed a few but whatever. The only ride I can think of in the last several years the park has gotten without having to take out an older ride was King Kahuna, which replaced a building that housed restrooms. So like I said, I never said the park was completely out of space, I simply said the park has a limited amount of space they can put rides in without having to replace an older ride. I also said its going to be a lot harder for the park to replace these older rides too because when it comes to rides like the Log Jammer, Turtle, Auto Race, etc. I honestly don't think the park would EVER consider taking those out to house a new ride.

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^ Well actually they've definitely considered removing the Log Jammer because it has been losing water for some time now.

 

I'm sure they have considered it in the past, but considering they've done a major overhaul on all of the boats in the last year or two (completely new fiberglass bodies, paint, etc.), I wouldn't count on seeing it going anywhere anytime soon.

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Do you for one minute think that the park would have replaced a family favorite like the Turnpike for a new coaster if there was another plot of land they could have utilized instead?

 

 

There actually was another spot, but Palace wanted the coaster closer to the entrance.

 

And what spot was this? I don't know who told you this, but Sky Rocket and the various other coasters that Kennywood was deciding on were all designed to take the place of the Turnpike.

 

This spot was considered before anything was designed. It also didn't require the removal of anything.

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Do you for one minute think that the park would have replaced a family favorite like the Turnpike for a new coaster if there was another plot of land they could have utilized instead?

 

 

There actually was another spot, but Palace wanted the coaster closer to the entrance.

 

And what spot was this? I don't know who told you this, but Sky Rocket and the various other coasters that Kennywood was deciding on were all designed to take the place of the Turnpike.

 

This spot was considered before anything was designed. It also didn't require the removal of anything.

 

What was the spot then?

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I never said the park was completely out of space, but I did say that the park has very little OPEN room left. I could probably mention several open plots of land, such as the area between the Phantom's lift and first drop, but there really aren't that many left. Which is why I said it will be very hard for Kennywood to build new rides in the future without having to replace an older ride. Just think of all the parks newer rides, and which of those was built without having to replace another ride. I'm pretty sure you'd have to go all the way back to 1999 when the Exterminator was built since the park has built a ride that didn't replace another one.

 

Skyrocket is replacing Turnpike, Bayurn Kurve replaced Wipeout, Ghostwood Estate replaced Gold Rusher, Cosmic Chaos replaced Magic Carpet, SwingShot replaced Wipeout which replaced Bayurn Kurve, Garfield's Nightmare replaced Old Mill, Aero 360 replaced the Ferris Wheel, and even Pittfall replaced the park's flyers. I probably missed a few but whatever. The only ride I can think of in the last several years the park has gotten without having to take out an older ride was King Kahuna, which replaced a building that housed restrooms. So like I said, I never said the park was completely out of space, I simply said the park has a limited amount of space they can put rides in without having to replace an older ride. I also said its going to be a lot harder for the park to replace these older rides too because when it comes to rides like the Log Jammer, Turtle, Auto Race, etc. I honestly don't think the park would EVER consider taking those out to house a new ride.

 

Practically all of those you mentioned were replaced because of some maintenance/mechanical issue, a cost issue, a capacity issue, the ride just isn't popular anymore, etc. The reasons for removing those rides aren't necessarily because the "park has no space left." Who says they aren't just trying to modernize their rides collection a bit so they aren't looked upon as an outdated park? While also saving money in the long run.

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Do you for one minute think that the park would have replaced a family favorite like the Turnpike for a new coaster if there was another plot of land they could have utilized instead?

 

 

There actually was another spot, but Palace wanted the coaster closer to the entrance.

 

And what spot was this? I don't know who told you this, but Sky Rocket and the various other coasters that Kennywood was deciding on were all designed to take the place of the Turnpike.

 

This spot was considered before anything was designed. It also didn't require the removal of anything.

 

What was the spot then?

 

The area around the Phantom's final turn.

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Well, considering they cut up all the steel and track of the ride and threw it away, I will say this. You're not going to see the Turnpike at Kennywood with the same look that it had previously. The biggest problem the park had with the ride was the cars, so if they decide to rebuild "Turnpike", I won't be surprised if the park goes to Chance Rides to build them an all new car ride and just rename it Turnpike. But like I said, if it returns its going to need all new track and cars which is pretty much a new ride in itself.

 

Actually it was the rides infrastructure that gave them all the problems. I had heard it was bad enough that to actually fix it, the park would have had to almost completely rebuild the ride. If the only issue was the cars, Kennywood would have swapped out the inside of those things in a jiffy. Even before they closed the ride to tear it down, it had the most downtime of any in the park. I know that after the ride closed, the cars were all parked out back behind the Jack Rabbit.

 

To any fan of the park, the Turnpike was as big a deal as the wooden coasters. Sure you didn't ride it anymore when you were in High School, but you still remembered loving it as a kid. Permanently getting rid of it would be unthinkable. That said, how quickly the park moves to reinstall it will be interesting. The original hope was to put it back in under Sky Rocket, but last I'd heard, that was looking extremely unlikely. The park wants to flatten it out a little (supposedly to increase capacity, but whether or not that is the real reason, I don't know). KW has also publicly stated that with a 4-minute run-time, the old incarnation actually ran a little long by modern standards, and that it was possible that the new version could be shorter.

 

As for the Magic Carpet, or Flying Carpet (whatever it was called), I seem to remember it being closed more than open. I'm pretty sure I was told a story once about someone from the company that made it coming to look at it and not being able to help either. Fun ride, yes. But was it really worth trying to keep it anymore? I'd have to say no.

 

In terms of future investments, we pretty much know the next couple years. This year: Sky Rocket in -- Turnpike and King Kahuna (believed) out. Next year will likely see the re-theme of Garfield's Nightmare. Within the next couple years, the Turnpike SHOULD be coming back. In terms of future expansion, the park will need a lot of money. Whenever they finally move into the Kennyville area, all those houses will need to be torn down. The hillside will need major work just to make anything possible. And the former KMart site is completely detached from the park.

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I think the construction of the ride itself is going to be the least of our worries because I think this will get built very fast. The testing of it will probably take a good while before they get it operational. I just hope it opens with two train operation.

 

Can you seriously say that with a straight face? Construction the least of their worries. I think right now construction is their biggest worry. They don't even have all the footers drilled yet, and supposedly they just recently got all the rebar on site. Even if the park can get all the holes drilled and footers poured by the end of next week, you have to keep in mind it takes several weeks for footers to fully cure before they can even start vertical construction. And that is with normal weather conditions. Obviously the freezing weather we've been having lately is going to have an effect on the curing and I'll say we'll be lucky if vertical construction starts by the end of March.

 

So, that gives them one full month for vertical construction, station construction, installation of all the miscellaneous components of the coaster, and the long grueling process that is testing to get the ride certified. I say we'll be very lucky to see this open by June, but I think saying construction is the least of their worries is a very large understatement.

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