Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread

[FeelTheFORCE]

Good to hear track should be arriving! I'll be looking forward to those updates as well!

 

I just hope that the "limited quantity" doesn't turn around and bite me. Being 40+ miles north at SRU, my luck, when I'd finally get around to buying one, they'd all be sold out. Would someone be kind enough to post in this thread when they are available for purchase? Not that that wasn't going to happen anyway! Thanks.

[EastCoastn07]

The website says to look for more information in March...just check the site every few days.

[FeelTheFORCE]

Yeah I know, but for all we know they could update it well after they go on sale.

[robbalvey]

I'd rather them remain the way they have been for the past 100+ years then turn into another Six Flags...Season passes are just one more step to getting to that point.

I couldn't disagree with you more and that's a really backwards way of thinking.

 

Many parks have done quite well with their season pass program. From what I've heard thus far, they do not seem to be following suit with what Six Flags does by "buying a day, getting a year for free."

 

And even some parks that do, like Sea World San Diego and Busch Gardens Tampa have great success with their programs.

 

I really think you should be giving this a chance before you condemn the program to hell.

 

Really, how many parks DO NOT offer Season Passes?

 

--Robb

[DenDen]

I'd rather them remain the way they have been for the past 100+ years then turn into another Six Flags...Season passes are just one more step to getting to that point. All I'm saying is, there's a reason why they are only offering a limited number of passes.

 

Oh, so you'd like to get rid of Pay-one-price as well, and go back to the old ticket system.

 

It's the 80's all over again! People thought the park would get over-crowded with a POP admission. LOL Don't worry guys, KW, when it comes to trends, has always stood back and watched everyone else experiment before implementing something. Parks were doing Ride-all-day admissions 20 years before KW, and the same with season passes. Nothing is going to happen. Enjoy the perk instead of trying to predict gloom and doom! Besides, we enthusiasts will buy them all up before the general public can get their hands on them.

 

Not to mention, the "details" aren't out yet, I bet there's an age restriction when passes can be used. (ie, under 18 must be accompanied by another pass-holding adult before 5pm during the school year.) KW has been working with and lucratively profiting from school districts for most of it's life, they are not about to screw that up by allowing kids to get passes to cut school!

[EastCoastn07]

I'd rather them remain the way they have been for the past 100+ years then turn into another Six Flags...Season passes are just one more step to getting to that point.

I couldn't disagree with you more and that's a really backwards way of thinking.

 

Many parks have done quite well with their season pass program. From what I've heard thus far, they do not seem to be following suit with what Six Flags does by "buying a day, getting a year for free."

 

And even some parks that do, like Sea World San Diego and Busch Gardens Tampa have great success with their programs.

 

I really think you should be giving this a chance before you condemn the program to hell.

 

Really, how many parks DO NOT offer Season Passes?

 

--Robb

 

I would normally agree with you, but I just don't think season passes are a good fit for every park. Like I've already mentioned before, Sandcastle Waterpark introduced season passes a few years ago and honestly the place is a nightmare to go to anymore. I went there two times last year for free and the place just isn't the same anymore. The wavepool gets so packed that they don't even allow inner tubes in it anymore. Now, the Sandcastle season pass is significantly less than KW's, but I just don't want to see things change for the worse. There's even rumors that the park is looking forward to integrating Lo-Q into several of its rides and next thing you know free parking will be gone and people will no longer be able to bring food into the park.

 

Do I think having a season pass is going to kill the park? No...I think if the park continues to limit the number of passes they will be in good shape. And if they want to sell more in the future, they should implement ways of limiting the number of minors they sell season passes to. But as of right now, I think Kennywood has a lot bigger things on their plate that they could have concentrated on instead of implementing this system.

[Dailey Enterprizes]

^ I think Sandcastle is a poor comparison because it's small, it's the only water park in the area (unless you want to drive all the way out to Idlewild) and it's just popular. Now I've actually never been to Sandcastle because when I've meant to go it thunder stormed.

 

I still don't see it as a horrible thing. I hate saying this, but look at Conneaut Lake Park. They've been static since 1996 I believe and look how the park is now. I know the park couldn't update because they had enough problems keeping the park open, but still it's fundamentals of business.

 

All I know is that I won't be pouting when Kennywood finally doubles the size of the park when the new effing highway gets built.

[disneyfan1313]

Just out of curiosity has Kennywood ever said *officially* why they didn't offer a season pass in the past?

 

I think as more and more parks offer them (even smaller ones!) they would probably end up turning some customers away by not having them. Little confused by the "limited" part and how they are going to announce that and administer that. Or - is the "limited" some ridiculous # like 1million and they are just saying that to make folks happy.

[DenDen]

Just out of curiosity has Kennywood ever said *officially* why they didn't offer a season pass in the past?

 

Yes, at almost every coaster event since the 90's, the question would come up. Who ever was representing the park would give a standard answer "We don't want to be the babysitter of Duquesne High School."

[bkraig4life]

Why cant more parks do like knoebels? Ill pay for ride tickets, and give me good food! Kennywood has been around forever, this could be an even better park, Food is not overrated!

[TJinPgh]

There are both good and bad sides to any change in pricing structure.

 

Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned (sarcastically) about doing away with ride all day passes and going back to tickets. While the ride all day passes have proven successful financially, there are certainly customers that Kennywood lost when they discontinued individual tickets as an option.

 

Many grandparents have stopped coming to the park because they don't want to have to pay full admission price to get into a park that they have no intentions of riding rides in.

 

The season passes are both good and bad for business. They are good for anybody who lives close and wants to visit the park several times a season. They could well be bad for everybody else.

 

Kennywood is an extremely crowded park for it's size. The Night Rider pass is essentially useless. Last time I went MID WEEK I managed to ride 3 rides in 4 hours. Worked out to be $5 per ride. Not exactly cheap.

 

Compare that to Waldameer where I rode the four top rides in less than 2 hours on what turned out to be one of the busiest days of the year.

 

Despite living about 15 miles from Kennywood, it is to the point that I can ALMOST drive to Erie and ride the Ravine Flyer once in the time it takes to drive to Kennywood and ride the Exterminator.

 

The point I'm making is that season passes can only increase those crowds initially. Good for the season pass holders. Bad for the night riders and virtually everybody else who only plans to visit the park once.

 

If those initial increases in crowds prompt people to reconsider coming, it could be a long term detriment.

[EastCoastn07]

All I know is that I won't be pouting when Kennywood finally doubles the size of the park when the new effing highway gets built.

 

LOL, you must be pretty behind on the times...that highway is never going to be finished. It never got the financing to continue construction and was only partially completed. The only way the expansion is ever going to happen is if Palace believes that its a good investment for the park. I'm not even sure if Kennywood finalized to purchase all that land behind the Racer, but maybe Palace has since taking over the park.

[TJinPgh]

The land behind the racer is fairly steep hillside. Not even sure what they could do with it unless they were going to tear down that old factory building.

 

On the other hand, Lake Compounce has some fairly steep hills around it and they used the terrain to build Boulderdash. Could possibly build a pretty nice terrain coaster down there if they were able to secure the land all the way past the highway.

 

You're right about the probability of them expanding without that highway, though. Part of my above comment had to do with the fact that there is no quick way to get to Kennywood. It's all residential leading up to it.

[Dailey Enterprizes]

^^ I just said that I wouldn't be worried to see Kennywood expand, but everyone seems so afraid of Kennywood making changes. About the highway too, never say never...

[Kennyweird]

Why cant more parks do like knoebels? Ill pay for ride tickets, and give me good food! Kennywood has been around forever, this could be an even better park, Food is not overrated!

 

Personally, I hate the ticket system. Anytime I go to a park that still uses it, I always opt to buy the all day pass instead. Seriously, you already have to stand in line to ride anything, why would you want to stand in line so you can stand in line again?

 

Besides, a park with free admission like Knoebels would not work in West Mifflin. (Kennywood+free admission)/(West Mifflin + Duquesne) = scariest place on earth.

[EastCoastn07]

The land behind the racer is fairly steep hillside. Not even sure what they could do with it unless they were going to tear down that old factory building.

 

Yes, it's a fairly steep hill, but at the bottom of the hill there's a lot of flat land. I had the opportunity of seeing the area last season and they could definitely use the land to their benefit if they ended up expanding. It would give them the much needed land they need for the future if they continue with the trend of getting new rides/coasters every few years. Eventually there are going to run out of room on the current site and there's only so many old rides they are willing to take out.

 

About the highway too, never say never...

 

Normally I would agree with you on the never say never thing, but in terms of the Mon Fayette Expressway, I will say that it will probably never be completed. The road was supposed to be complete in 2007 or 2008 I believe, but only half of it was started and finished. The other half that was going to benefit Kennywood wasn't even started, and this was several years ago. The fact that we haven't heard anything about it on the news in the last 2 years should give you an indication of whats going on with the project.

[robbalvey]

Eventually there are going to run out of room on the current site and there's only so many old rides they are willing to take out.

Ugh. I hate it when people say this. It displays such a lack of knowledge of the amusement park business.

 

If I park wants to build something bad enough, they will find the room.

 

Blackpool is a perfect example of this. So is Knott's Berry Farm.

 

For YEARS people kept saying how "land locked" Knott's was and how they have NO ROOM at all to expand.

 

They've built 5 coasters in 11 years...and added an entire water park.

 

--Robb

[TJinPgh]

Most of the people that go to Kennywood are locals. It's something we do every year, whether we want to or not. It hasn't been what one would call a destination park in quite a while and, for the most part, the locals like it that way.

 

Kennywood rarely "adds" anything. They normally look for things that people no longer like, remove them, and build something else.

 

Yes, they can move things around and make room for more rides and such in the land they already have. And, I can tell you that 90% of the people who go there will end up hating it.

 

Kennywood has a particular look and feel that most people don't want messed with. It would be very difficult to retain that and put significantly more things in that space.

 

There is certainly enough room down over that hill to put a good bit of stuff. The question is one of accessibility. Older people and those with little kids aren't going to want to climb up and down a set of steps. You'd likely have to invest in an incline to make it accessible to everybody.

 

Beyond that, I'm not certain what the point would be. Most parks enter into that kind of expansion to increase patronage. Kennywood would have a very difficult time handling that sort of increase in customer flow. As I said earlier, people are already complaining about the size of the crowds, let alone have any sort of increase.

 

Those outside the region would be amazed at how many people around here say that they HATE going to Kennywood every year, but they do it anyway because it's simply what we do.

 

It's an odd region. We don't want something changed, even if we don't like it.

 

I quit trying to figure this city out, lol.

[EastCoastn07]

Eventually there are going to run out of room on the current site and there's only so many old rides they are willing to take out.

Ugh. I hate it when people say this. It displays such a lack of knowledge of the amusement park business.

 

If I park wants to build something bad enough, they will find the room.

 

Blackpool is a perfect example of this. So is Knott's Berry Farm.

 

For YEARS people kept saying how "land locked" Knott's was and how they have NO ROOM at all to expand.

 

They've built 5 coasters in 11 years...and added an entire water park.

 

--Robb

 

Lack of knowledge? No, I'm just well aware of what land Kennywood does and doesn't own that surrounds the park. I'm also aware that Kennywood is not the type of park that takes out all of its older rides for the construction of new ones like all the big corporate parks. All the rides that they have removed in the past couple of years to replace with new rides, were ones that had mechanical problems or cost the park a lot of money to maintain. So yes, while I agree if the park really wanted to build a new attraction they could very well find the space to do it within the current limits of the park.

 

Could the park take out Turtle, Auto Race, Raging Rapids, Log Jammer, etc. to build new rides? Absolutely! But does that mean Kennywood would do it? In your dreams. Do you for one minute think that the park would have replaced a family favorite like the Turnpike for a new coaster if there was another plot of land they could have utilized instead? The fact is, the Turnpike had a reputation of being one of those rides that broke down on a daily basis and cost a lot maintain, so obviously it was the first ride to go for a new coaster. And don't even try to say that the park would replace one or several of the pavilions in exchange for a new ride. Picnics have and will always be the park's biggest source of income and doing that would be suicide for the park.

 

So I stand by my original statement. In terms of long term expansion, Kennywood's best bet is to finalize the purchase of the land behind the Racer. I just wish people would realize that Kennywood isn't like parks like Knott's Berry Farm and any other large amusement park like that. The park is known for all the traditional rides that it continues to maintain while other parks are tearing them out for new rides. Kennywood is proud of this and that is why when they take out rides, its normally for a good reason. So once again, I agree that if a park wanted a new ride so bad, they'd find room for it, but I don't agree thats the case with Kennywood.

[xChris125x]

The fact that we haven't heard anything about it on the news in the last 2 years should give you an indication of whats going on with the project.

 

They have been working on the link to Uniontown for the past few years and are nearing completeion. I'm guessing after that section is finished they will focus more on the Pittsburgh metro area. Yes, work (and funding) has been slow, but it hasn't stopped.

[FeelTheFORCE]

Lack of knowledge? No...

 

Could the park take out Turtle, Auto Race...

 

So I stand by...

 

I think what Robb was trying to say was that you'd be surprised at how much parks can expand without needing to remove anything at all. Which is something a lot of people don't realize. They think all these parks are "running out of room," and insist that rides will need to be removed for their next big project, when that isn't the case at all.

[Kennyweird]

 

Do you for one minute think that the park would have replaced a family favorite like the Turnpike for a new coaster if there was another plot of land they could have utilized instead?

 

 

There actually was another spot, but Palace wanted the coaster closer to the entrance.

[larrygator]

 

Do you for one minute think that the park would have replaced a family favorite like the Turnpike for a new coaster if there was another plot of land they could have utilized instead?

 

 

Is the removal of Turnpike permanent? I was under the impression that Turmpike would be put back in after Sky Rocket is completed.

 

Has Kennywood changed their minds on re-installing Turnpike in 2011?

Link to ride announcement on Page 23 of this thread

[eddie200330]

The fact that we haven't heard anything about it on the news in the last 2 years should give you an indication of whats going on with the project.

 

They have been working on the link to Uniontown for the past few years and are nearing completeion. I'm guessing after that section is finished they will focus more on the Pittsburgh metro area. Yes, work (and funding) has been slow, but it hasn't stopped.

 

My travel route to Kennywood takes me on route 51 from Uniontown through Perryopolis - Elizabeth and up the river on Route 837. Where is this new road supposed to "drop" me off if and when it gets finished? I kinda like the scenic route up that way, but a faster road would definitely be appreciated!!

 

Also, I am one of those people who like Kennywood for what it is and to see them remove the older rides for newer ones is kinda disheartening. I always liked the Rotor, (removed to make room for nothing), and the Flying Carpet, (removed to make room for Cosmic Chaos which I thought was really dumb). They have plenty of space to add newer flats, but coasters will have to be strategically designed to fit or else go Magic Mountain style and do the parking lot coaster!!!

[FeelTheFORCE]

^ I'm no expert on this expressway project, so I could be wrong, but I believe that Kennywood was/is supposed to get their very own exit. I don't know where exactly it would drop people off, though. Perhaps someone else does.

 

^^ As far as I know, plans are still the same. They want to bring back the Turnpike as early as possible, perhaps in 2011 like the announcement says.