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Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

P. 393: Opening dates for Mickey & Minnie's Runaway Railway and Toontown!

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Sorry for the essay in advance.

 

As a Southern California local, I have ridden ToT in its current, Twilight Zone, theme. I love the idea and the queue is my favorite part of the current experience. As for the GoG retheme, I'm torn.

 

On one hand, the huge Marvel fan in me is excited for a new land themed to my favorite heroes. The prospect of a possible E-Ticket attraction joining Radiator Springs Racers in this new land is what I am most looking forward to. Having not had an innovative attraction at the resort in over 20 years (Indy), I have been waiting for an E-Ticket for a while.

 

Then, there is the fact of doubling-back by Disney. Yes, the California theme of the park was originally a total failure (mainly due to off-the-shelf rides and gaudy decorations), but the recent renovations have turned the park into a beautiful piece of mastery. Having taken a trip there alone back in March, I found myself wandering around Grizzly Peak and Carsland, forgetting I was in a theme park and not in the "real" world. But this announcement tells me I might be alone in these feelings.

 

Obviously the major renovation that finished back in 2012 has not reached the general public the way Disney expected. On that same March visit I noticed DCA felt about half as full as DL did. ToT only had a 10 minute wait, Screamin' boasted a lofty 20 minute wait, and Radiator Springs Racers was the longest at 45 minutes. All these were smack in the middle of spring break, one of the parks' busiest times.

 

In short, the retheme would be a brilliant move by Imagineering if it had not committed to the "California of the 20's" theme less than 5 years ago. Now, I would not be surprised if the name is changed to "Disney Anything Goes Adventure" in the near future. I loved the idea of Star Wars Land, especially since it was replacing a scarcely crowded corner of the park, and now this "Marvel Land" announcement has made me even more excited for the possibilities of attractions both of these expansions hold.

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^ ^ ^

You're not alone. This announcement has pissed off a lot of Disneyland fans. (The announcement video even has a like/dislike ratio similar to the 2016 Ghostbusters trailer)

 

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^ Ha, totally forgot that park existed. OK, DCA is third-worst behind that and Hong Kong.

 

Everyones opinion will be different but I really like what Mystic Manor and Grizzly brought to the park although I really wish HKDL had a Splash Mountain or their own water ride since it's stupidly hot whenever we've been. I'd probably now put it ahead of the main Paris Disney by a little bit (although last time I was there was before Disney Dreams) although I do really like Paris's PoTC... so it's pretty close, both have tourists that drive them down a little for me though.

 

My wife actually wants HKDL to be our son's first. She admits the others are a lot better,especially Tokyo, but as a non-enthusiast HKDL is her favorite. She just finds it a lot quieter than the others (maybe we've just been lucky with our visits) and thinks a park where you can meet the majority of the characters and princesses within 5 minutes or have most lines under 20 mins (give or take an Autopia/Parachutes) makes it ideal as a starter Disney so it has that I guess.

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Hi guys,

 

We ( my wife and myself) are gonna visit the disney parks the last 3 days of our holiday. Dates are 19-21 september. We want to buy the tickets in advance( 3-day no hopper) via internet so that we don't have to wait at the register the first day we arrive.

 

Just order the tickets on the disneyland site or are there other options?

 

Thanks!

 

Paul

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^ Ha, totally forgot that park existed. OK, DCA is third-worst behind that and Hong Kong.

 

Everyones opinion will be different but I really like what Mystic Manor and Grizzly brought to the park although I really wish HKDL had a Splash Mountain or their own water ride since it's stupidly hot whenever we've been. I'd probably now put it ahead of the main Paris Disney by a little bit (although last time I was there was before Disney Dreams) although I do really like Paris's PoTC... so it's pretty close, both have tourists that drive them down a little for me though.

 

My wife actually wants HKDL to be our son's first. She admits the others are a lot better,especially Tokyo, but as a non-enthusiast HKDL is her favorite. She just finds it a lot quieter than the others (maybe we've just been lucky with our visits) and thinks a park where you can meet the majority of the characters and princesses within 5 minutes or have most lines under 20 mins (give or take an Autopia/Parachutes) makes it ideal as a starter Disney so it has that I guess.

 

I wasn't speaking to the quality of the parks, just in hard attendance numbers. I've not been to HKDL but I would love to visit as I'm sure it's incredible.

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As a local Californian it bothers me to see a park once themed about the great parts of our state be turned into some confused land of whatever ideas Disney didn't have the space to put in Disneyland. Obviously I'm excited for the new ToT because it will create a much better ride experience, but now only Grizzly River Run and California Sreamin' remain as the original California rides. Not before long they'll be different too.

The original "California" theme went over about as well as Epcot's original "Educational" theme. When something is broken, you fix it. I will say that I feel that their keeping the name "California" Adventure was a mistake, but quite honestly, I felt like that theme was pretty much gone when they started doing the re-theme and adding it rides like Little Mermaid, Toy Story Mania and Carsland.

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As a local Californian it bothers me to see a park once themed about the great parts of our state be turned into some confused land of whatever ideas Disney didn't have the space to put in Disneyland. Obviously I'm excited for the new ToT because it will create a much better ride experience, but now only Grizzly River Run and California Sreamin' remain as the original California rides. Not before long they'll be different too.

The original "California" theme went over about as well as Epcot's original "Educational" theme. When something is broken, you fix it. I will say that I feel that their keeping the name "California" Adventure was a mistake, but quite honestly, I felt like that theme was pretty much gone when they started doing the re-theme and adding it rides like Little Mermaid, Toy Story Mania and Carsland.

 

Yeah...it's very Strange how Disney is treating DCA. They spent all this money trying to unify the look of the park to be "old timey" California, yet the attractions they build are brand based attractions that have nothing to do with California aside from their facades (TSM & Mermaid) and the loose connection to route 66 with Carsland.

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I'm remaining cautiously optimistic, even though I've generally felt these movie rethemes are a huge gamble. Robb pointed out the transformation to Maelstrom that actually turned out pretty well, but then there's other things like Stitch's Great Escape that completely ruined what used to be there.

 

They should redo Stitch with a Guardians theme if they want to incorporate more marvel into WDW, it actually would probably work really well given its space themed and would be in tomorrowland. Anything would be better as long as they made it more like the original alien ride but maybe somewhere in between that and stitch as to be just scary enough but not overly frightening.

 

Sorry to break it to you but Disney can not put any Marvel themed attractions in the Walt Disney World Resort. This is because since Universal had the rights to Marvel first and built Marvel Super Hero Island back in 1999, Universal owns the rights to any Marvel themed attractions East of the Mississippi River. Disneyland Resort however can do whatever the Hell they want with Marvel. So while a Guardians retheme to Stitch would be amazing (because Stitch is probably the worst ride at WDW) it can not happen. They can always retheme Stitch to some Star Wars crap or to the best Disney IP of all time "The Black Hole"

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^There are still some restrictions on the west coast on how they market/use the properties. Notice the name of the Guardians of the Galaxy ride does not feature "marvel" branding & Joe Rhode's ear was very careful to call this "the first of a whole new universe" without mentioning Marvel by name as well. It's also probably not an accident they are starting with a property that Universal did not utilize.

Edited by Jew
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Sorry to break it to you but Disney can not put any Marvel themed attractions in the Walt Disney World Resort. This is because since Universal had the rights to Marvel first and built Marvel Super Hero Island back in 1999, Universal owns the rights to any Marvel themed attractions East of the Mississippi River. Disneyland Resort however can do whatever the Hell they want with Marvel. So while a Guardians retheme to Stitch would be amazing (because Stitch is probably the worst ride at WDW) it can not happen. They can always retheme Stitch to some Star Wars crap or to the best Disney IP of all time "The Black Hole"

 

Somewhat the companies hands are tied in most aspects but there are small loop holes. The contract is just slightly more narrow then your making it out to be. Disney World cannot use the name Marvel, they also cannot use characters or plots which are part of X-Men, Spiderman, Fantastic Four, or the Avengers. The contract is very specific that these are the families they have the rights to which is because that is what the four rides are based on. Also if Universal removes a ride or changes the theming they loose the right to that family of characters. So if they remove Storm Force for example they loose the rights to X-Men. The Avengers is the biggest problem since just about everything tends to interact with them at one point or another.

 

Basically this leaves Guardians of the Galaxy and other largely stand alone super heroes. Disney World has already used characters from Guardians of the Galaxy a year or two ago at an after hours ticketed event. Basically as long as Disney World works within the limits of the contract Guardians of the Galaxy is possible. Also it is always possible Disney will just offer a pile of cash to get out of the contract.

 

Disneyland actually has a problem as well. They can only use the name Marvel west of the Mississippi, so they have to watch advertising to make sure they either only advertise west of the Mississippi or not use Marvel in marketing.

 

But I cannot see this ever happening in Florida. The reason that Tower of Terror in DCA is changing is largely based on its location. The ride will be the gateway into the new Marvel land which will be built on an existing parking lot. They are trying to take a small parking lot and turn it into an entire land and it just required more space then it was possible to make. So instead they are converting an existing ride.

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I just read the contract again. I was wrong on one item. Disneyland cannot use Marvel in any way in the park or advertising. So if they do decide to build a Marvel section they will have to call it something generic or just not give it a title.

 

 

Here is the section which allows Disney World to build the ride.

 

East of The Mississippi - any other theme park is limited to using characters not currently being used by MCA at the time such other license is granted. [For purpose of this subsection and subsection iv, a character is “being used by MCA” if (x) it or another character of the same “family” (e.g., any member of THE FANTASTIC FOUR, THE AVENGERS or villains associated with a hero being used) is more than an incidental element of an attraction, is presented as a costumed character, or is more than an incidental element of the theming of a retail store or food facility; and, (y) in addition, if such character or another character from the same “family” is an element in any MCA marketing during the previous year. Any character who is only used as a costume character will not be considered to be “being used by MCA” unless it appears as more than an incidental element in MCA’s marketing.]

 

Basically a park east of the Mississippi is limited to using characters not used by Universal Orlando in an attraction or major marketing. Which includes Guardians of the Galaxy.

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Sorry to break it to you but Disney can not put any Marvel themed attractions in the Walt Disney World Resort. This is because since Universal had the rights to Marvel first and built Marvel Super Hero Island back in 1999, Universal owns the rights to any Marvel themed attractions East of the Mississippi River.

Oh, really? I guess we'll just have to wait and see (hopefully soon) if an announcement happens now won't we?

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^ I like the sound of that!

Let's just say that ANYTHING is possible as long as there is enough money in the world.

 

Not only that, but apparently the contract covers key Marvel characters, and not ALL Marvel characters. Supposedly, the Guardians rights are not appended to that contract, as well as other lesser popular characters (at that time).

 

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312510008732/dex1057.htm

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I noticed the new logos for the upcoming movies all now have a "Marvel Studios" logo above them when it was previously just Marvel. For sure there are some legalities being hammered out.

The "studios" name is to differentiate the Marvel Cinematic Universe films from the Marvel films made and distributed by other studios, like X-Men with Fox.

 

I feel the logo they revealed last week is a result of the breakup between Feige and Pearlmutter though.

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I'm perfectly fine with this overlay IF they do it right. As others have said, DCA's Tower was a shadow of the original, so this should inject some life into it.

 

Now, with the six month time frame. I'd imagine the exterior work will begin soon, with scrims in place. Having worked at DHS's Tower during the last major upgrade in 2002 (ToT vs 4 that introduced the randomized drop sequences and additional effects), I can tell you that they can do ALL of the programming changes and drop sequence effects/additions while the ride is still open (when I worked at Tower they would work on the programming after park close and added screens, the translucent figurines, etc. to the drop tower without anyone really noticing, those effects simply were just dark during operating hours). So, assuming all of that, that leaves 6 months to do the physical theming in the entrance, queue, lobby, pre-show area and boiler room/loading area. I think this is totally doable (for example, taking the vats int he boiler room and using those structures and containment devices for the captured guardians).

 

The biggest thing is, unlike say Stitch Encounter but much like Frozen, this is an IP that many people are fairly passionate about, even fanatic about. Plus, the attraction itself is a flagship eTicket for that park (again unlike Stitch Encounter - though that one still irks me to this day b/c AE was one of my all time favorite attractions) and is being used to anchor an entire marvel-themed section of the park. I'd like to give WDI the benefit of the doubt assuming that they realize the need to do this right thematically.

 

Time will tell, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

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I'm glad to see many of you see the positive of this. The GP seemed livid, I've even seen petitions in attempt to stop the change.

 

Personally, I'm excited. This is only going to be a plus. As Robb mentioned, DCA's ToT has always been the inferior knock off of Florida's. It's never felt unique or special. Now we've got something special about our Tower of Terror. It sounds like the show is getting plussed, and overall should be a better, more unique, and interesting attraction which gives a little taste of whats to come with a bigger Marvel world.

 

It's easy to understand the hate. But remember when Disney bought Marvel and Star Wars and everyone was adament that thse franchises would be ruined and kidified? Ladies and Gentlemen, we are in a new golden age for the Disney parks, and this is not going to be the misstep that propels us into a new dark age. It's a continuation of the quality we've come to expect from Disney the last couple of years. Fear not ye of little faith.

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