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Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

p. 393 - Pixar Place Hotel transformation will be completed on January 30th, 2024!

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So if Maliboomer gets the ax, does this mean Knott's can finally change one (or two) of Supreme Scream's towers to a space shot!?

 

Isn't Maliboomer the reason why Knott's can only run the drop program on Supreme Scream?

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Honestly, I like DCA better than Disneyland. Yeah Disneyland may have the e-ticket rides, but I just like the overall atmosphere of the park. It seems so different from Disneyland, so I'm surprised they're going to change the entrance. DCA is almost like Disneyland grown up, which is why it's not as memorable with guests, but I still like it.

 

I'm surprised they're going to rip out the whole entrance including the letters. Smart move... not. Although the letters don't fit in with the theme they're going for, it is an icon of DCA. I have countless pics with my family, friends, band, school, and me on the letters. The entrance also seems like a poor choice. Come on, do we really need another MGM entrance or Disneyland main street? Is re-theming really the answer?

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So if Maliboomer gets the ax, does this mean Knott's can finally change one (or two) of Supreme Scream's towers to a space shot!?

 

Isn't Maliboomer the reason why Knott's can only run the drop program on Supreme Scream?

Apparently not. According to S&S Power, Maliboomer is a triple Space Shot and Supreme Scream is a triple Turbo Drop. They do make a kind of tower called a Combo Ride which can operate in either mode but most towers are either one or the other. I'd like to try a 250 foot Space Shot too. I like Maliboomer (the only Space Shot I've been on) but I wish it had a little more kick.

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So if Maliboomer gets the ax, does this mean Knott's can finally change one (or two) of Supreme Scream's towers to a space shot!?

 

No. Space Shot and Turbo Drop towers are built with an operating system specified for that particular ride model. In short, a Space Shot tower can only be run as a Space Shot ride and a Turbo Drop tower can only be run as a Turbo Drop ride.

 

However, a few years after the Turbo Drop came on the market, S&S introduced the Combo Ride model. The Combo Ride allows for the ride to operate as a (1) Combo Ride; (2) Turbo Drop only; and (3) Space Shot only.

 

And because Supreme Scream is not a Combo Ride, its ride programming can't be altered to operate as a Space Shot without a major and expensive retrofit by S&S.

 

Isn't Maliboomer the reason why Knott's can only run the drop program on Supreme Scream?

 

This is correct. Disney is the reason why Supreme Scream is an all Turbo-Drop tower complex. The Orange County Register put out an article a few days after Supreme Scream's opening explaining that Cedar Fair originally wanted Supreme Scream to be just like the Power Tower at their Cedar Point park in Ohio -- a pair of drop and a pair of shot towers. But at the time Cedar Fair was negotiating the ride with S&S Power, Disney had already secured rights to the Space Shot ride in that particular area, for use in their then-upcoming second gate in Anaheim (now California Adventure). This led to Supreme Scream to be altered to a three-tower complex with all Turbo Drop rides.

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Isn't Maliboomer the reason why Knott's can only run the drop program on Supreme Scream?

 

This is correct. Disney is the reason why Supreme Scream is an all Turbo-Drop tower complex. The Orange County Registered put out an article a few days after Supreme Scream's opening explaining that Cedar Fair originally wanted Supreme Scream to be just like the Power Tower at their Cedar Point park in Ohio. But at the time Cedar Fair was negotiating the ride with S&S Power, Disney had already secured rights to the Space Shot ride in that particular area.

Hmm...I was under the impression that Supreme Scream was already designed and in production and going to a park in Asia but that park backed out and Cedar Fair came in got it for Knott's at short notice and a good price.

 

It makes for a better news story to hear that big, bad Disney wouldn't let Cedar Fair create the ride they wanted but I wonder what the "real" story there actually is....

 

--Robb

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Isn't Maliboomer the reason why Knott's can only run the drop program on Supreme Scream?

 

This is correct. Disney is the reason why Supreme Scream is an all Turbo-Drop tower complex. The Orange County Registered put out an article a few days after Supreme Scream's opening explaining that Cedar Fair originally wanted Supreme Scream to be just like the Power Tower at their Cedar Point park in Ohio. But at the time Cedar Fair was negotiating the ride with S&S Power, Disney had already secured rights to the Space Shot ride in that particular area.

 

Hmm...I was under the impression that Supreme Scream was already designed and in production and going to a park in Asia but that park backed out and Cedar Fair came in got it for Knott's at short notice and a good price.

 

I think that would be highly unlikely considering once a firm is contracted to build a ride and the piece of equipment is already under production, the act of "backing out" would cause for serious legal issues.

 

When Cedar Fair finalized the Knott's acquisition in late December, the order for the ride immediately went through in hopes to have a big new ride for the busy Summer period. The ride opened on July 3, and was assembled during a good portion of June. The first parts were delivered in May.

 

I have the original article archived as a offline web document. I'll quote the article for those that would like to see that I'm not pulling all of this out of my ass.

 

FROM THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER. ARTICLE DATED 11/09/1998.

 

When Knott's Berry Farm started to negotiate the purchase of the towering ride that became the standout of Southern California's theme park industry this year, it ran into an unexpected roadblock - the Walt Disney Co. It seems that Disney owns the exclusive rights to exactly half the ride for use in the California Adventure theme park it's building next to Disneyland in Anaheim.

Knott's owner, Cedar Fair, originally wanted the tower ride it calls Supreme Scream to be like its Power Tower at Cedar Point in Ohio. Two sides of Power Tower shoots riders down, but the other two shoot riders up. Knott's ride only shoots riders down a 250-foot drop.

 

 

Disney's version would shoot riders up, and its contract won't let competitors in the same market do the same.

 

"That's pretty common in this industry," says Cedar Fair Chairman Richard Kinzel. "We would have done the same to them."

 

The fact that Knott's and Disney are competing for the same rides aptly demonstrates how Cedar Fair's $245 million purchase of Knott's last year has transformed the amusement industry here.

 

Ironically, Disney now may pass on its rights to the ride, technically called a Space Shot. Disney officials say they need to better understand how it's engineered. But the fact that a similar ride will have been operating down the street for three years by the time California Adventure opens might have set the Disney folks looking for something more exclusive. They already plan to put a small version of Knott's parachute ride into the new Disney park.

 

Don't expect Cedar Fair to spend Disney-style dollars on everything it does in Buena Park, but building rides such as the 312-foot Supreme Scream and the mammoth wooden roller coaster Ghost Rider proves that the Sandusky, Ohio, company plans giant marquee rides that are top tier. Scream cost about $10 million, and the Ghost Rider project will come in the neighborhood of $24 million - about what Disneyland spent on the far less impressive Rocket Rods in its new Tomorrowland.

 

If the Knott's rides pay off in big attendance gains, it's likely even more dollars will flow back there.

 

Now that Disney has acquired the rights to the sprawling Fujishige farm and considers a third theme park in Anaheim, expect to see high-price land deals in the key Katella-Harbor corridor.

 

Two parcels look to be in play. The first is the lot right on the corner of the intersection. Planet Hollywood reportedly has the rights to the several-acre site. It apparently has thought about placing one of its All-Star Cafe theme restaurants there.

 

But the deal might be unraveling. First, the lot, owned by the Zaby family, has become more valuable with Disney's land deal.

 

Second, Disney is looking at putting its own sports-themed restaurant, ESPN Zone, into the Disneyland Center complex that is part of the California Adventure development. Finally, Planet Hollywood has not done well financially this year. Themed restaurants are struggling as diners prefer good food to dinnertime stories.

 

Look for a hotel developer or maybe Disney to eventually gain title to the site.

 

Speaking of Disneyland Center, Disney is considering opening its own Latin club-style restaurant there. Bongos Cuban Cafe, a Latin club at a similar Disney-owned development at Walt Disney World, has proved popular with guests.

 

But Bongos is owned by singer Gloria Estefan and her husband, Emilio, and Disney thinks it could do better with its own prototype.

 

That's why Disneyland foods chief Mike Barry has traveled to Latin America and elsewhere exploring similar and authentic concepts.

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^ Ewwwww!! Mulholland Madness is going to stay put (Goofy's Sky School Coaster)? And Sun Wheel transformed into the Mickey Wheel? *Barfs*

 

I really hope they don't go through with that transformation for the Sun Wheel. The concept art for that thing makes it look so bad.

 

At least the Mulholland Madness transformation looks somewhat more decently themed -- like the Barnstormer in Florida. But it's still a freakin' cheap carnival mouse coaster! Boo. I wish they'd just take it out.

 

As for the up-close detailing of the front of the new entrance, I think it looks so bland and tacky. Looks like something you'd see from Disneyland's Tomorrowland circa 1981.

You got to admit, Goofy's sky school coaster looks a LOT better not just a little better than the mulholland madness themeing now. And to be honest i really like the Mickey's Sunwheel. Everyone complains that DCA doesn't have the Disney magic and now they are bringing it but everyone still complains, I really like what Disney is doing and it is definently a step in the right direction.

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That Radiator Springs ride looks like it will be really awesome! The scenery looks like it will be amazing, plus the track really utilizes the train with tight turns around dangerous cliffs and through dark tunnels.

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I think that would be highly unlikely considering once a firm is contracted to build a ride and the piece of equipment is already under production, the act of "backing out" would cause for serious legal issues.

Dude, it happens ALL THE TIME. Most of those "rumors" you hear on Screamscape were actually TRUE at one point or another. Multi-million dollar deals fall through or never get inked ALL THE FREAKING TIME. Not just in theme parks, but every facet of entertainment. In fact, the article you quoted mentions a deal with Planet Hollywood for the Disneyland area...which obviously fell through.

 

When Cedar Fair finalized the Knott's acquisition in late December, the order for the ride immediately went through in hopes to have a big new ride for the busy Summer period. The ride opened on July 3, and was assembled during a good portion of June. The first parts were delivered in May.

 

 

Yeah, yeah, dude, I know. I read the article too. I've also worked at major companies (including ones that own theme parks) where the REAL story is one thing and what you tell the press is something else.

 

The fact that they bought the park in December and had a ride in May tells me that Supreme Scream was already in production. Do you have any idea how long a ride of that caliber takes to produce?

 

I do this stuff for a living, not in RCT3.

 

--Robb "You need to trust me more often..." Alvey

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The expansion makes me

 

When considering this HUGE project, remember that this is a MAJOR risk! Re-branding a park to this extent is unprecedented in Disney History!

 

Second, DCA's original theme was designed to appeal to the grown "Disneyland Child" with attractions that were noticeably more intense than what you would find across the esplanade. This was a major flaw. The biggest complaint at DCA is that their aren't enough "family friendly" attractions, and let's face it, "family" is the main focus, not the seasoned theme park thrill junkie! While DCA/ Disneyland experts know exactly what attractions and shows are available for the young (5 and under crowd) at DCA, the general public feels that the young ones get cheated when paying for a DCA ticket! Which is why crossover suffers! As a result you are seeing a push to add attractions that are less "intense", and NOT seeing the addition of what we consider "E-ticket" attractions.

 

Lastly, the park is going to get a major dose of "feeling" and "atmosphere" which has been lacking over the years. Story is very important in a Disneyland attraction, and I have heard several people complain that story/theming at DCA was only inch deep... there was a lack of depth! There has always been a disconnect and lack of the Walt Disney Legacy when it came to DCA, and you are going to see that change. You will see story lines and theming that bring Walt's life experiences here in SoCal to the new park. Disneyland was a park built on Walt's childhood hometown, DCA will focus on his life here in CA...from the moment he arrived in LA. It should be pretty great! It will be nice to finally feel some sort of "Walt" presence in the park

 

It's no secret that I LOVE LOVE LOVE DCA just the way it is...I'm biased I know...but I find no reason to not be excited about this!

 

chuck "grossly optimistic!" garcia

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^It's a good point, but every time I ride ToT there are families with young children on it too. I don't work there, but how many families don't do ToT, CS, or maybe even Soarin? Is there ever a situation where a cast member tries to convince a family with young kids that a ride isn't really that bad? I'd like that job!

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^ And go on being optimistic, Chuck. I kind of like the new plans. I'm not thrilled about Carsland, but Wes brings up a good point. They are masters at keeping their stuff in the consciousness of the public.

 

I've only been to DCA once, with you guys, and I wasn't too impressed. It was just a mismash of half thought out themed areas, that never flowed. I seriously thought we were in MGM Lite for parts of it.

 

It's why I still hope that they bring EPCOT back around too.

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^It's a good point, but every time I ride ToT there are families with young children on it too. I don't work there, but how many families don't do ToT, CS, or maybe even Soarin? Is there ever a situation where a cast member tries to convince a family with young kids that a ride isn't really that bad? I'd like that job!

 

From personal experience with my 5 y.o. niece! She can ride most of the rides at DCA, including ToT, but it scares her to death! She loves the Matterhorn, but can't stand Mulholland, Loves the Jumpin' Jellyfish, but feels uneasy on Soarin'... So, it's a toss up! I have witnessed several terrified children being coaxed by CM's to ride an attraction, as well as CM's who take the time to ask a crying child being dragged on the attraction by a parent, if they REALLY want to ride. In those situations the child really is, and should be, the boss. Through the eyes of a 5 y.o., many attractions can be very intimidating! I remember being so terrified of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride as a child that I covered my eyes with a park map the entire time, which was rather embarrassing when I returned to the station, and the entire queue laughed at me (I am scarred for life)! And I didn't ride my first "upside down" coaster until I was in 3rd grade, and again I was peeing my pants in line! Then again...I am a big wuss!

 

chuck "Gonna pee my pants at my first Haunt on 10/28/07!" garcia

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Okay, it's time for ole spacemtfan to say something about my favorite park.

 

First off...I thank the Disney company for leaving Soarin', Tower of Terror, California Screamin', and Grizzly River Run alone.

 

One thing I do not like about the makeover is that once it's done...people are going to want to go to the park. Now, like Jahan, I find California Adventure my "overflow" park, in which whenever Disneyland gets too busy, we simply park-hop to the almost-never crowded DCA. Now that people are going to the park, I have to wait in long lines for my favorite rides!

 

But, if it's the best to help keep my favorite park running, then I guess I'll get used to the crowds.

 

The Entry Plaza...it seems pretty cool. But, the trolleys I'm not too sure of. They're going to cause some massive congestion in an already small park. But it looks very nice and I can't wait to see how they can make something so grand in such a tiny space.

 

The Little Mermaid ride...well, I was never too big on Ariel and her fishy friends...but it seems like it'll be like a Fantasyland dark ride and it will (I hope) use the Omnimover system like the Haunted Mansion of the Nemo ride at Epcot. I'll wait and see how this turns out.

 

Cars Land...not a big fan of the name (then again, they're re-naming the Disney-MGM Studios Disney's Hollywood Studios). It'll be nice that the Radiator Springs Races will add another E-ticket attraction to the park. I feel bad for parking, but I love the movie, so I can't wait for this!

 

The Wonderful World of Colors will finally bring some nighttime entertainment to the park. But now, do we go and see this show...or go to Disneyland and watch the fireworks or Fantasmic? Oh, quite a problem here now is it?

 

Toy Story Mania...I liked the movie, but for some reason, I'm not really too excited about this ride. The 3D stuff sounds cool and all, but...I guess I'll have to wait and see for this one. I hate this ride simply because construction is keeping California Screamin closed until 1 p.m.!

 

So...I better enjoy less-crowded DCA for now. Once the changes are made, it'll be packed and my short lines will now grow to massive proportions.

 

But after this is done, business will pick up!

 

---space "don't destroy my favorite (censored for good reasons) park" mtfan

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[The Wonderful World of Colors will finally bring some nighttime entertainment to the park. But now, do we go and see this show...or go to Disneyland and watch the fireworks or Fantasmic? Oh, quite a problem here now is it?

 

Well, what DCA is going for with all of these additions, is attracting the one day guests. By adding a night show and 5 new attractions it gives more of an incentive to go to DCA even with DL right next door.

 

So if you're going to DCA for a day, then you will have World of Color. Any other guests (APs and multi-days) have multiple days to enjoy all night shows. No problem, unless seeing night shows multiple nights is a problem.

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Ya know, all this talk of the re-hashing of rides has me a little concerned. I don't want to think that Disney's Imagineers have run out of ideas but sometimes it looks that way. I am hoping that there will be some more originality brought to DCA in the future.

 

Now, about the entrance. I have mixed feelings about the whole new entrance thing. While the new entrance looks nice and promising I don't know if I like the idea if getting rid of the letters or the Golden Gate. I agree with ComplexAudio99, I have pictures of family and friends in front of those letters and the bridge. They were icons of the park and I am going to miss them. I wonder if the trolleys are necessary? People aren't that lazy that they need a trolley to get to the end of a Main Street style entrance? Disney Land's main street isn't even that long that I need some kind of car to drive me across. Maybe I am wrong, perhaps the trolleys are there to ride for fun, but even then I'm not sure I would exactly run to the nearest station to hop on. But I guess we will have to wait and see how this whole thing turns out, I can't wait to see it and I hope it does the park some good.

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^ Remember though, that Main Street has the Taxis, the Horse Drawn Carriage, the Paddy Wagon, and the Omnibus that essentially take you from one end of the street to the other. Kind of pointless, yes, but they add a little life onto the street. Also, it's been stated that the DCA Trollies will take people all the way to Tower, so it's not just a short jaunt.

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