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Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

P. 391: Mickey's Toontown reimagining announced for 2023!

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anyone wanna bet how much parking lot is going to be left when there done with all of this? Just kidding

 

I absolutely love all of these changes. The truth is that, the reason why some people consider the park a flop is because it doesnt bring in the same amount of people that Disneyland does, however, no one remembers that Disneyland has been around 52 years (?) now so it has built itself a worldwide reputation for itself where as California Adventure has only been open for a few years and they are already disappointed in it because they expect that everyone will flock to it just because it has the "disney" label on it. The truth is that I actually like DCA more than DL to a degree. The problem is, you cant charge the same price for DCA that you do for DL because there isnt as big of a fan base. If I was from out of town, I wouldnt pay the money to go to DCA unless it was really cheap. The tourists arent as interested in DCA because its a very young park and doesnt have much of a reputation built up for it yet.

 

The scenery is amazing and they do an extremely good job with sticking to the theme. (except for a bugs life, which you might be able to find in a trashcan in downtown LA. however likely that is, no one should ever go there cuz its filthy...) The test track type ride sounds really really cool and all the improvements look gorgeous. I hope this turns out as good as it sounds!

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Ok, here's my thoughts on all this....

 

I'm a bit indifferent to the renovation news. I think it is needed, yes, as DCA is a bit lack-luster. But I'm not convinced that a new entrance, yet another old WDW 4D movie, a Mullholland facelift, and ANOTHER dark ride or water show will really improve the park all that much.

 

Carsland and Toy Story Mania. Those are steps in the right direction, IMO. These sound like bigger-budget "E-Ticket" rides that the park lacks. At least the Cars ride does. Jury is still out on Mania, but I'm hopeful it's not just another "Buzz" because that IMO, would not be an E-Ticket attraction.

 

But re-doing the entrance? I dunno, it's kind of like when the MGM Grand Hotel decided to re-do their entrance. Did anyone really care that much? Most people didn't even notice!

 

The addition of a Main Street? Sounds like it's pretty much going to be WDW's Disney/MGM Studios main street even with the same entrance and turnstiles, but with a different theater at the end. It's nice, sure, but I think it's a little odd to have two main streets back to back from each other. At least the current entrance now doesn't look like something that's 200 yards away. But I guess this is where they will be able to fool people into thinking it's got just as much charm as the park across the street because it now looks more like the park across the street. I don't know about you, but I'm not fooled.

 

I'm not attached to the entrance DCA has now, so it won't really bother me much one way or the other if they change it, but looking at the concept art for the new entrance, I think I'd walk past it just as quickly as I do the current one. It's different, yes, but I'm not convinced it's actually better.

 

And a Little Mermaid ride? How many dark rides in a row does DLR need?!?? Let's see... Pooh, Monsters, Buzz, Nemo, Toy Story Mania, Mermaid.

 

IMO, the only ones that really stand out of that bunch is Buzz and *maybe* Toy Story. The rest of them are either re-hashes of old rides, or just your average dark ride re-telling of a movie property.

 

Now, if Mermaid was something like Tokyo Disney's Pooh, THEN we are talking BIG attraction here. But so far all I've heard makes me think "just another dark ride..." and the concept art looks just like they've taken the Nemo ride in Florida and added a Little Mermaid theme. Meh....

 

Philharmagic? Meh. Seen it, done it, don't need to do it again. It's pretty weak as far as 4D movies go. Better than Honey, I Bored the Audience but not as good as Muppets or Bugs, IMO. So they are going to replace one old WDW 4D movie with another one. Great plan!!!

 

Sci-fi Drive in? So they are getting a restaurant that WDW has had for 10 years. Sure, ok! It's a really cool place, so why not? Didn't they learn the first time around that just bringing over stuff from WDW and plopping it down somewhere in another park doesn't always work?

 

Trolleys? These don't get me excited either. Adds atmosphere, I guess, but I'm picturing them going down the current Hollywood Blvd area or MGM's current main street and I'm just not feeling any love for them. I don't ride any current trolley or main street transportation ride at any Disney park...EVER so this doesn't make me very excited.

 

Lagoon show? Will it be better than Fantasmic? I needs to be. If they want people to walk away not saying "That wasn't as good as Fantasmic....another DCA let down" it has to be the Fantasmic killer. I'll 'wait and see' on this one.

 

Then I hear rumors of ride removals like Maliboomer and Orange Stinger. But I don't see a replacement for any of those in the current concept art or overhead maps. So what is the point of removing something if you don't have something to replace it with? That would be a pretty DEAD area between Toy Story and Mullholland of those two rides were taken out. Doesn't DCA kind of suffer now from dead areas of the park? Why would they want to create yet another one?

 

Overall, I hope you guys don't think I'm bitching, I'm just trying to bring up some very good points that I think may have been overlooked in the "change is good" cloud of excitement.

 

I *DO* think it's all a step in the right direction as DCA really does need "something", but I just can't help to think that deep down I don't see THAT much more imagination going into this than the original DCA concepts had. I look at those images and I feel pretty much exactly the same as I did about what I saw 7 years ago. Indifferent. Some things make me go "Oh, hey, that's kind of cool..." But nothing I saw made me go "WOW!" Not even the Cars ride. While that did peak my excitement level the most, maybe I'm jaded from having been on Test Track and Journey so many times that I just went "Oh, cool, so California is *FINALLY* getting a Test Track ride...10 years later..."

 

IMO, I see more of the same that didn't get them repeat visitors in the first place so why do they think this will be any different or work better? I'm not convinced.

 

--Robb

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^ well we shall see. The way I'm seeing this is this is just an expanded pacemaking project. By the time this next step of development is over I'm guessing they will have a new budget to hit what they missed in the first run. From the looks of it, while the park will be pretty will have a number of new attractions, I don't think it will have quite enough at the moment to really get the same park attendendence ratio that the TDL resort receives, but that gap will definately start to decrease, and I think the "Disney Magic" will start to show.

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You're definitely not b*tching Robb. You noted some good points in that post.

 

I personally don't think the plans for a The Little Mermaid dark ride is a bit too much in terms of storybook-type rides at the DLR. If anything, it's something California Adventure as a stand-alone park lacks. Monsters Inc. and the upcoming Toy Story Mania! is really all it has when it comes to dark-rides. Not too many. Plus, the DLR hasn't capitalized on The Little Mermaid film yet, and I think it'll be a big hit once it opens up in the place of the Golden Dreams Theater.

 

As for the Trolleys, it's definitely more there for aesthetics than anything else. I don't know how extensive they plan on making the track route for this thing, but I don't believe it'll be something people will hop on to save themselves a long walk. More like something people will see pass-by on the mainstreet and say "oh that's kind of cute."

 

And the complete overhaul of the entrance...I really don't know what to make of this. I have always thought the loud cartoon-y appearance of the entrance served as a pleasant contrast to the more subtle and traditional entrance to Disneyland. Since all they've told us is that the large CALIFORNIA letters will be removed, the removal of the faux golden gate bridge, turnstiles moved North a few feet, and not too much else, I certainly hope the "new" entry will be much more spectacular in terms of visual appeal rather than a toned-down simpleton entrance like that of Disneyland.

 

Let's see what Mark Shapiro will have to say about his lukewarm Thomas Town, Tony Hawk, and Wiggles World at Magic Mountain going up against this huge 5-year $1 billion tranformation at California Adventure. And that's not including any plans for new additions to Disneyland park.

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Ton of concept art here: http://www.micechat.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2250062&postcount=151

 

Apparently somebody took these off of CastTV and sent them anonymously.

 

Personally I am really excited to see the red cars and the entrance plaza. I wasn't even alive back then I am still bitter about the whole conspiracy that killed rail in Los Angeles. To not see the red cars represented in a theme park about California is insane.

 

I agree about the 3D movie. There is a law that every theme park has to have one 3D movie. DCA has two. Enough! Keep A Bug's Land and replace Muppet 3D with some other type of ride.

 

The lagoon show is being designed by the same guy who was in charge of Remember... Dreams Come True. If it's half as good as Remember then it'll be a winner.

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^ Ewwwww!! Mulholland Madness is going to stay put (Goofy's Sky School Coaster)? And Sun Wheel transformed into the Mickey Wheel? *Barfs*

 

I really hope they don't go through with that transformation for the Sun Wheel. The concept art for that thing makes it look so bad.

 

At least the Mulholland Madness transformation looks somewhat more decently themed -- like the Barnstormer in Florida. But it's still a freakin' cheap carnival mouse coaster! Boo. I wish they'd just take it out.

 

As for the up-close detailing of the front of the new entrance, I think it looks so bland and tacky. Looks like something you'd see from Disneyland's Tomorrowland circa 1981.

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None of this makes me want to go there again and I haven't been since 2001, even though I have been in LA every year since, except 2002. Not too inspiring at all, both on a what I would expect from Disney level and most definitely from a thrill ride perspective which I wasn't expecting much anyway.

 

They sure know how to waste a billion dollars, put it down for Gold Coast

Disneyland.

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^^^ Thanks for the link, really shows alot more!

 

I also have wonder if Toy Story Midway Mania is really apart of this $1.1 billion. I would have thought that budget would have been approved and majority used by this point in time. I think it is a tie in for the "future of California Adventure", but not exactly apart of this budget.

 

Wanted to point this out since from what I read on the Disney geek sites, you are correct that TSMM, along with World of Color and Carsland were all previously approved under a completely different budget plan than this 1.1 billion just approved only this month. These 3 were part of the previous round of fixes greenlit, construction had already begun on all but Carsland long ago before this recent approval of the 1.1 billion budgeted extreme makeover.

 

As for the up-close detailing of the front of the new entrance, I think it looks so bland and tacky. Looks like something you'd see from Disneyland's Tomorrowland circa 1981.

 

Suppose to be a replica of the Pan-Pacific Auditorium, so it actually fits into 1920's LA perfectly:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Pacific_Auditorium

 

This new gate will be placed approximately where the giant CA letters are, moving the gate up and giving DCA a bigger entrance area.

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I love Disney parks and I think, like MGM & Paris a Rockin' Roller Coaster would complete the park...however, it would be great if they could think of unique theming specific to the park to make it fit right. I mean LA is such a Rock N' Roll city & being that it's California Adventures maybe a theme to Sunset Strip style 80's rock would be alot of fun...it would just need to tie to Disney as well. Just a cool thought I wanted to throw out there. DCA is a fun park and these changes will be very positive! I do have to say though, i would be sad to see the orange stinger go

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I think the Trolley would be more useful if it went all over the park, not just down to the end of the Hollowood street and back (a useful transportation system like the DL railroad).

 

Overall, this is a big step in the right direction--I'm a bit more enthusiastic about it.

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Ok, looking at the other concept art posted, my good feelings have been shot too. They're making DCA into Disney-MGM 2. I do not like that the whole entrance is going to be exactly the same as MGM's entrance. The "New Partners" statue is a bit hokey. Cars land looks boring sans the Race, though it is a nice to see the flying saucers back. It all looks same old same old and, frankly, STILL looks cheap.

 

Robb, I'm starting to agree with you, though I go a different route. I don't see the goal in this. It's starting to feel like they're doing it just to do it. If they are doing all this to have it complete or stand alone with DL, than you're right Robb, this isn't nearly enough. If they're doing this to make it more appealing, than it's barely enough. If they're doing this to "fix" DCA than, I'll be super devil's advocate here, why is there in the first place?

 

Jury is still out on Mania, but I'm hopeful it's not just another "Buzz" because that IMO, would not be an E-Ticket attraction.

 

Unfortunately, all accounts say that it is just another "Buzz", just with video screens. It's supposed to be a D-ticket at best.

 

The question becomes what can they do? Have we gotten to the point where it's all been done? This whole plan seems to be a step in the right direction because they're actually attempting something. If you think about that, it is a sad state of affairs.

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Went to DCA last year. I liked it. I see why people complain. It does not have the magic DL has. But as a 2nd park it is OK.

 

This is the whole point: It is being considered a 2nd park with California as a theme! It is only nice for tourists out of the state. I think Californians don't really like it when they've got the real thing!

But for tourists it is OK. But then again: It has for it's size too many different themed areas. And those areas have or too little attractions and rides or too much!

 

Oh and then Paradise pier. I really looked forward to it as Disney's recreation of an old amusementpark/pier. It really didn't come close. Some rides have too much theming (Orange Stinger), why? A wave swinger is in it's basic shape a great ride.

If only they've build a real wooden (racing) coaster!

And did someone else notice the old decorations and park memorabilia in the souvenir shops? Well they've should make the whole paradise pier look that way.

 

The new investments are in the good direction. But it needs a lot more to be attractive for Californians.

 

gr. HansA /-//-\

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But re-doing the entrance? I dunno, it's kind of like when the MGM Grand Hotel decided to re-do their entrance. Did anyone really care that much? Most people didn't even notice!

 

Robb, the reason for the change were for the Asian high rollers. They felt as if they were being eaten by the tiger when walking into the casino. That's why they changed it and placed the new statue out front. It's all about Feng Shui and superstitions, just as most casinos hotels don't have a 13th floor.

 

 

Ok back to Disney talk, sorry!

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the entire Cars race ride looks to be outdoors. If it is indeed true that the Cars ride will be a combination of EMV and Test Track technology, it will be interesting to see how a ride track like that fairs outdoors, as all of Indy and much of Test Track are indoors.

 

As far as Pier rides go.... I wouldn't miss Zephyr one bit, as it's never been operating due to wind conditions when I've walked by. How is a ride equitable if it has such high operating safety holds?

 

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Theyre not touching California Screamin & Tower Of Terror but it would be nice to get a Tower Of Terror upgrade like how Florida did several times. Are the chances real good in getting a Rock N Roller? It would be a great addition to the Hollywood Pictures Backlot area. I LOVE the one at MGM.

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This is going to be an awesome park and I feel that all of you who think that this extreme make over is really just a waste of the hard earn money you spend on Disney, Well it is not. The fact of it is they need to make this park more like Disneyland to make it a success and if other rides from other parks were successful, well maybe they could be just as successful over here as they were in WDW. We will also be getting a remodeled version of a Yesterland ride (New version of Flying Saucers)! Yay! Now if only they could bring Country Bear Jamboree to Condor Flats I would spend a lot more than a few hours to pin trade at California Adventure. Let's also remember that this is not all of the $1 billion make over and expect announcements of a few more dark rides and other areas getting their makeover.

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But re-doing the entrance? I dunno, it's kind of like when the MGM Grand Hotel decided to re-do their entrance. Did anyone really care that much? Most people didn't even notice!

 

Robb, the reason for the change were for the Asian high rollers. They felt as if they were being eaten by the tiger when walking into the casino. That's why they changed it and placed the new statue out front. It's all about Feng Shui and superstitions, just as most casinos hotels don't have a 13th floor.

 

 

Ok back to Disney talk, sorry!

No, I knew the reasons, but did anyone really care or notice? That was the point I was trying to make. I knew WHY they did it....

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Let's also remember that this is not all of the $1 billion make over and expect announcements of a few more dark rides and other areas getting their makeover.

 

I think this should be the $1.1 billion and that's it. My opinion, with current financial climate, that $1.1 billion is going to be stretched as is. I don't think it's enough money to do the job of being comparable to Disneyland. Frankly, this park will never be comparable to the park across the way from it. They could clone all of Disneyland in DCA and it still would not be considered to be as good. Disneyland is probably the strongest brand image of in the park industry. Heck, it's one of the strongest brand images period. I talked about all this with my father and he said that when he thinks of Disney, and he blanketed his statement with his generation, he thinks of two things: Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color and Disneyland. Everything else the company does are just extensions of that. That's huge and a insurmountable feat to even attempt to compare. So I think the idea of "We need to make DCA on the same level as Disneyland" silly. Why try to compete with your biggest asset? Instead, they need to make their own brand image with this park. They need to try desperately to not be Disneyland. As of right now, and still with this update, it's a park without a message. There's no hook. There's nothing. It's just there to do. That's what they need to change. They need a whole collection of attractions that DCA needs that it doesn't seem like it's going to get. They need something on the level of an Indy, they need something on the level of Mr Toad, they need something on the level of the subs. Nothing mentioned here is at that level. It's a good intention, but we all know what road is paved with good intentions.

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^Agreed.

 

For me, what makes something 'Disney' is the fact that 99-100% of the population cannot experience something in every day life that they can at a Disney theme park. Ghosts, pirates, rockets in outer space, submarines, teacups, runaway trains, forbidden temples, and castles. Disney all the way. You can't drive down the street and experience this stuff. You HAVE to go to Disneyland.

 

The new Walt Disney Plaza for DCA is beautiful. No denying it. But I certainly can drive around Southern California and experience this particular setting at many outdoor malls.

 

Paradise Pier. No matter what you do to it, there are still boardwalks all over the globe. Nothing Disney about that.

 

Condor Flats has the most promise of the fantasy element that's so important to Disneyland's success. But they aren't touching that area at the moment.

 

I guess when it comes right down to it, the changes/enhancements look like quality work. But that being said, the whole concept of DCA is flawed from the start. It lacks the premise/thesis/unique value proposition that makes the Magic Kingdom and Islands of Adventure so successful in terms of theming. DCA promises 'Adventure' and doesn't deliver. (There are a few notable exceptions.) But I'm just not all that interested in a 'theme' park that lacks escape from the daily grind. Do people from out-of-state and other countries feel the same way? Not sure. But I'd much prefer going to a park where I can journey to the center of the earth or sail with Sinbad or goof around with a certain cat in a certain hat.

 

I do have great hope for the Cars ride. It seems to fit my rule. 99% of the population can't/don't race cars in the desert. It should provide a unique experience for most people. That it's themed to Cars can be looked at as a bonus or not, but I do like the concept behind it.

 

The changes will finally make DCA a fully-realized 'theme' park in terms of quality and detail. I just don't like the theme.

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I personally like DCA. While Disneyland is more enjoyable and probably more "magical", DCA has a kind of unique feel to it.

 

Having said that, I also think that the park really needs this. Although I do agree that they seem to be adding a lot of dark rides. I enjoy a good dark ride as much as the next person but they might be going a tad overboard with all the dark rides. Gimme a new E ticket ride over 2 or 3 dark rides any day.

 

I am looking forward to seeing what they do with the park, maybe this is the first step towards turning DCA into the park that it should have been when it opened.

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I agree for 95% with Coasterbadboy.

 

The 5% i disagree about is the theme or general idea of DCA it's not bad especially not for people out-of-state or country.

From the start they put in to many things of California with the result that some things are too little of (e-ticket rides) or packed too much in a small place (Hollywood).

 

You hit the hammer on the nail Disney- and amusement-parks in general are all about escapism from daily live. DCA does not deliver enough for Californians, but enough for tourists.

DCA is never marketed in that way. And all travelguides only refer to Disneyland as the must do.

In that respect (escapism), travelguides even recommend Knott's above DCA.

 

Gr. HansA /-//-\

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