Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

[laqueefa]

They killed someone on Big Thunder due to shoddy maintenance.

 

Do tell.

[Sir Clinksalot]

^

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/dec/03/local/me-ride3

 

State inspectors faulted a mechanic who didn't tighten bolts and attach a safety wire on the wheel assembly that fell off. They also blamed a manager who declared the ride safe without inspecting it, and chastised Disneyland's maintenance guidelines for allowing workers to sign for procedures done by others.

 

Inspectors also noted that operators who heard clanking at least 30 minutes before the accident kept the coaster running for 12 more rides before deciding to remove it from the track after one more run. The train crashed on the 13th ride.

[laqueefa]

In all fairness, the announcement does say its "the wildest ride in the wilderness"

[cfc]

They killed someone on Big Thunder due to shoddy maintenance.

 

Do tell.

 

I'm not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic here or not, but the statement concerning Big Thunder is essentially correct. However, Rastuso's statements comparing the Disney situation to Bhopal and what happened in Texas yesterday are, at best, over blown.

[Rastuso]

i'm not comparing them in magnitude, but in the simple fact that things are missed by all companies, including Disney. And that the attitudes are similar. If Disney's maintenance attitude that led to the Big Thunder incident were put into a plant environment with dangerous chemicals, it could be ugly, and easily lead to very bad incident.

 

And that is absolutely not overblown. I know a thing or two about chemical plant operational safety. Disney barely got a slap on the hand for Big Thunder. Probably because they are Disney. They aren't an evil oil company.

 

-R

[SenseOFone]

They killed someone on Big Thunder due to shoddy maintenance.

 

Do tell.

 

I'm not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic here or not, but the statement concerning Big Thunder is essentially correct. However, Rastuso's statements comparing the Disney situation to Bhopal and what happened in Texas yesterday are, at best, over blown.

 

He was also bringing up a good point that especially here, of all places, coaster enthusiasts shouldn't fall so far under the spell that Disney is a perfect company. Just like every other corporation, they care about the bottom line, and if they can get away with the bare minimum, they will. They hide it better than most companies, but at the end of the day, their rides (and coasters especially) are Six Flags or Cedar Fair quality with ridiculous amounts more hype and money thrown in. Their rep just makes Disney seem... fancier and safer.

[cfc]

^Yes, I know what he meant, and I agree that Disney had become complacent, and the horrible Big Thunder accident did force them to review their maintenance paractices. I have no illusions about parks and their operators.

 

My point was that comparing a coaster accident that took one life with a gas leak in India that killed thousands and a fertilizer-factory explosion that destroyed a few blocks of a small town was a "bit much."

 

Now comparing what happened on Big Thunder with what happened on the old drop ride at Kentucky Kingdom would've been more to the point.

[Jew]

Disney's "slap on the wrist" for Thunder Mountain is the product of horrible CA politics: the penal portion of AB850 (the state law that governs ride safety) is still yet to be written. State inspectors only have the ability to shut down rides. Can't issue fines or criminal charges.

[COASTER FREAK 11]

Getting a report that Screamin' is now down for the count...

 

I don't get how they can go back years later and say something isn't safe anymore if it (the design of a catwalk or whatever) never changed from the original construction, and there have never been issues.

[Jew]

^Unless those catwalks were never up to code to begin with and no one noticed until the Space Mountain accident.

[COASTER FREAK 11]

^Unless those catwalks were never up to code to begin with and no one noticed until the Space Mountain accident.

 

Doesn't someone inspect the rides when they are done? ...Or I guess not.

[Nyteowl]

I'm not really up to date on the whole OSHA regulations and such, but has anything changed in the past years after the ride was made that would require them to shut down and change it, or would that not have anything to do with it?

[Wes]

A worker got hurt.

[Mechanic]

I've been reading reports on some of the usual Disney fan sites that multiple unexplained closures have been witnessed today on other rides in both parks as well. Can anyone in the parks confirm or deny?

[DevilSaint]

I've been reading reports on some of the usual Disney fan sites that multiple unexplained closures have been witnessed today on other rides in both parks as well. Can anyone in the parks confirm or deny?

 

I don't see anything about it - probably just rides going down for normal reasons and people assuming the worst.

[azza29]

^Exactly. It wouldn't be a normal day at Disneyland without Indy breaking down at least twice.

[What Now]

Getting a report that Screamin' is now down for the count...

.

 

Screamin' was open earlier in the day..then it was closed when I was by at 8.

 

In other news, Mark Twain was open.

[Woodie Warrior]

Is the ride you guys are calling "Screamin' " Soarin'?

Edited April 19, 2013 by Woodie Warrior

[Double0Kevin]

^ No, they are talking about California Screamin'

[Jew]

^Unless those catwalks were never up to code to begin with and no one noticed until the Space Mountain accident.

 

Doesn't someone inspect the rides when they are done? ...Or I guess not.

 

The state only inspects the operations/maintenance of the ride, and the county/fire marshals usually only inspect for emergency stuff like pathways, signage, and procedures. Something like this falls through the cracks unless there is an accident.

[Rastuso]

Exactly, like I said, OSHA is very much a reactive organization, not proactive. They created the STAR system to let many companies do enough work to prove they are less likely a problem, and they will never get audited, unless there is a cause.

 

Some folks seem to think everything is grandfathered. That isn't the case. Disney could build something up to code, and one year later need massive changes. That is rare, but the changes made to fall protection were pretty severe, and very unusual. However, they are based on fact. Many people have died from a 3-4 foot fall, especially if it is backwards.

 

And again, Disney's history shows they are hardly a top notch company when it comes to safety. Big Thunder, Mark Twain, the guy who slid down Space Mountain (which would be hella fun to do, if you knew you would not get hurt). There very well could have been an letter from someone. That's by far the most likely reason. One simple letter from a disgruntled employee that sounds reasonably intelligent can trigger a very large OSHA investigation.

 

-R

[Brad]

The daily schedule now has both Space Mountain and Soarin' listed as "pending" under Closed for Refurbishment through next Wednesday (April 24).

 

I'm heading to the parks on 4/30 - I'm not too worried either way - but it would certainly help spread out crowds if both were open.

[COASTER FREAK 11]

Exactly, like I said, OSHA is very much a reactive organization, not proactive. They created the STAR system to let many companies do enough work to prove they are less likely a problem, and they will never get audited, unless there is a cause.

 

Some folks seem to think everything is grandfathered. That isn't the case. Disney could build something up to code, and one year later need massive changes. That is rare, but the changes made to fall protection were pretty severe, and very unusual. However, they are based on fact. Many people have died from a 3-4 foot fall, especially if it is backwards.

 

And again, Disney's history shows they are hardly a top notch company when it comes to safety. Big Thunder, Mark Twain, the guy who slid down Space Mountain (which would be hella fun to do, if you knew you would not get hurt). There very well could have been an letter from someone. That's by far the most likely reason. One simple letter from a disgruntled employee that sounds reasonably intelligent can trigger a very large OSHA investigation.

 

-R

 

Some of the things you keep citing though are not "Disney" so much as they are the individuals not following procedure or just human error. If an individual doesn't tighten a bolt enough, or ties off wrong, that's not the companies fault, its the individuals. Now, if the company told them to do these things, something they built was faulty, then its their fault. But we cant really be sure who did what in theses cases.

 

I'm just saying I don't think its fair to say Disney isn't top notch with safety when we really don't know much about the situations. As well, I do know that within the company employee and guest safety is a MAJOR thing. They are constantly changing and updating things to make things safer. Any Cast Member could attest to this, but that doesn't mean accidents cant happen. Which is what a lot of these things are, accidents. Not poor safety polices, poor construction, or poor maintenance practices.

 

Also, Sorin' is currently open at DCA.

[Jew]

Chris: Judging by the findings of the Thunder Mountain accident, I think it is was a safe assumption that something was wrong with the culture of DLR maintenance and operations if all of that could go wrong. The mechanic messed up, a manager signed off without doing the inspection, AND operations/maintenance allowed the train to continue cycling despite thinking something could be wrong.

 

This one I honestly think was just an oversight that no one caught until something went wrong.

 

^

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/dec/03/local/me-ride3

 

State inspectors faulted a mechanic who didn't tighten bolts and attach a safety wire on the wheel assembly that fell off. They also blamed a manager who declared the ride safe without inspecting it, and chastised Disneyland's maintenance guidelines for allowing workers to sign for procedures done by others.

 

Inspectors also noted that operators who heard clanking at least 30 minutes before the accident kept the coaster running for 12 more rides before deciding to remove it from the track after one more run. The train crashed on the 13th ride.

[Rastuso]

These issues aren't as bad as Big Thunder, simply because they don't seem to impact guest safety. But, it will never be an individual problem. If it's a Disney employee, and they screw up, it's Disney's fault. There are some places where this can be a bit different, such as a Disney Professional Engineer signing off on a design that kills someone, but even that would be very difficult to pin on the PE. Disney chooses to employ the people, they take the blame.

 

That is why a good safety culture is so important. And why it amazes me how many companies still don't have a good one. But that would get me started on reenforcement based safety, and I'll go on for hours, so I best not start.

 

 

-R