Homer Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 http://themeparks.about.com/b/a/176104.htm First Dragster, now we have this unreliable peice of crap... It seems Intamin can never perfect their chain's for strata coasters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterdude5 Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Yup- My signature says it all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Anyone stop to think that maybe it isn't necessarily Intamin's fault? Could it be that we've reached the limit of technology at this point, and it's not as much about the manufacturer's ability to produce a reliable product but more about what the parks are demanding? And perhaps that demand might be a little unrealistic? Think about it, it's not as though Intamin pushed TTD, KK, or even S:TE on all those parks. That's what the parks wanted, it just happened to be that Intamin are the only people out there crazy enough, and who have the technology to try and pull it off. And could it also be that when you are trying to push the envelope on technology, height and speed records, that perhaps 6 months of construction and testing just isn't enough? Look at rides like Storm Runner, XLR8R, Rita and Kanonen, they don't seem to be having the same volume of issues that TTD and KK have and they are based on the same technology. So why are TTD and KK having these problems? Maybe each of those rides should have had a 2 year development and construction cycle instead of just 6 to 12 months? Maybe Intamin is doing the best they possibily can given the short time frame they had to build these rides in? And once they are turned over to the park, all you are doing is playing 'catch up' from all the past issues. I'm not saying that Intamin is free from guilt, but perhaps pointing the finger at them saying it's an "Unreliable peice of crap" isn't totally the right thing to do. I can tell you, as someone who works with new technology everday, you don't get good results overnight. These things do take time! IMO, SFMM may have actually done something RIGHT when they delayed the opening of S:TE by a year when they were having all those problems in 1996 making it work right. Perhaps the same should have been considered for TTD and KK. Let me ask you this...what would you rather have....a delayed ride that works, or a project rushed to completion that could be forever problematic? --Robb "Just my thoughts on this...." Alvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew560 Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 GADVCentral has a good Summary of all the "rumors" going around of what happened. I am just glad to see that (most) people are pointing the finger at Intamin and NOT Six Flags. I just hope all is well and it is back up and running soon! Edit: Damn Robb, you just killed my post! (Yes I let it sit for 15 min, I'm at work!) Ok, not let me re-write now that I have re-read! Edit Again: I agree that some fault should lie on Intamin, but don't you think they would have figured something out by now with TTD's operation? If they knew the installation process was going to be rushed, maybe Intaimin should have just told SF that they would have to wait. Apparently, there were some advances in the launch technology (the shielding of the cable, etc) but I guess that wasn't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhishyBrewer Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Can I please point fingers at Six Flags? Please! Pretty, pretty please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteornotes Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 You know, thinking about it, Robb is probably on the right track here. TTD and KK really push what's been done before with this type of coaster. The technology seems to work pretty well in smaller rides like Stormrunner, but there are likely a lot more engineering problems to overcome with each additional heighth record they attempt with one of these. I remember all the complaining about Superman at SFMM not opening when it was supposed to, but I seem to recall it running fairly well after they delayed it. Of course, it has all sorts of problems now, but I think that's more of a SFMM budget issue... I think that the manufacturer and the park probably share the blame here. But is this unexpected? This is a very complex piece of machinery, and the more complex something is, the more likely it's going to break. I doubt that SFGAdv was running the ride in some sort of crazy manner causing it to malfunction. At this point, there's no official word of what happend, just some speculation. I think it's more a case of problems not coming up until they run the thing with people on a regular basis. It's sort of like software. You can test it over and over, but until you get it out to your users only then will you see how well it operates and/or what problems you have with it. It sucks that it's down for anyone planning to visit, but hopefully they'll make a note of it on their website, phone message line, and on a prominate sign that is highly visable BEFORE people pay $10 to park their cars, which should cut down on guest disatisfaction a bit... dt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Edit Again: I agree that some fault should lie on Intamin, but don't you think they would have figured something out by now with TTD's operation? No, I don't actually. Think about it. IMO, TTD was never really "completed." If you open a ride before it's "done" and then spend the rest of the year trying to band-aid the problems. What are you going to learn from that? Not to open a ride too early? Looks like the lesson was not learned. Again, I site SFMM's Superman: The Escape as a good example. Here was a record breaking, launched coaster built by Intamin. It needed extra time to perfect the system, and they took an extra year. When the ride opened, sure it still had problems, as ANY new ride does, but the problems were nowhere near what could have happened had they opened that ride up on time. It just seems to me that building these record breaking rides in a short amount of time isn't the smartest thing to do. But it sells lots of season passes, so go figure.... Anytime you "rush" something to open, it's never a good sign. Regardless of who's 'fault' it is. It sucks that it's down for anyone planning to visit, but hopefully they'll make a note of it on their website, phone message line, and on a prominate sign that is highly visable BEFORE people pay $10 to park their cars, which should cut down on guest disatisfaction a bit... Which is another reason why we have stopped going on 'opening days' for new coasters. It seems that more often than not now, coasters need a bit of 'live testing' period and during that time they are probematic. KK has been open to the public now, what....3 weeks? That's hardly enough time to be calling "shenanigans" on either Six Flags or Intamin! --Robb "Which is why we waited until August to go ride Storm Runner" Alvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Clinksalot Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 It's not just Intamin rides ... X ... Deja Vu ... Case closed ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew560 Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Gotcha! Being an engineer myself, you think I could have come up with that conclusion on my own! Anyway, Six Flags does have the fact it will be down today posted on their website and we were told earlier in the season that they will have a permanent "Operating Status" page eventually as well. I do hope that they make sure to put it up on the big sign above the "Toll plaza" where you pay to park, but knowing GAdv...who knows! It just seems to me that building these record breaking rides in a short amount of time isn't the smartest thing to do. But it sells lots of season passes, so go figure.... What Six Flags only concerned about $$$? NEVAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvcoasterguy Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I don't think that Six Flags is very bad. At all. Actually, I think they're great! I always have an awesome time at Six Flags Great America, better than the time I had at Cedar Point, and I had a lot of fun at Six Flags New England. I think the manufactuers do need some extra time. Robb hit the nail on the head in his post. All people do is complain; they never look at what good has happened. "Ooh... Kingda Ka broke! I want to kill Six Flags." "Six Flags sucks and Kingda Ka is a piece of crap." But you never hear: "Top Thrill Dragster is a piece of crap. So is Cedar Point." People are so biased these days. For once, Six Flags builds something better than Cedar Point. Taller, faster, with a better theme and design. Yet people still complain for some truly unknown reason. Technology is advanced these days, yes. But people need to realize that it can only go so far right now, until our knowledge is expanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazan Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 this is a little off topic, but has anyone noticed ttd has lap restraints and kk has shoulder restraints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coasterlicious Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 this is a little off topic, but has anyone noticed ttd has lap restraints and kk has shoulder restraints? Ya, why?... are TTD lapbars not safe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 ^ Why aren't you posting that SFGADV should tear down Kingda Ka? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coasterlicious Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 ^ Why aren't you posting that SFGADV should tear down Kingda Ka? Because Six Flags hasnt had the ridiculous amount of time to fix it as Cedar Point has had to fix Dragster... anyways., oh and im not having hate for SF or CP.. just the certain rides that dont work half the time.. Is KK launch the same as dragster?..In terms of how it was built? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Clinksalot Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 With rides like TTD and KK, I find myself paraphrasing Dr. Ian Malcolm... "They spent all this time trying to figure out if they COULD do it, but they never considered whether they SHOULD do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfdlfan11 Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 hmmm this is jsut a theroy but it could be possible. While at cedar point, the ttd was closed as usual......but we were looking at it, since it was our first time there EVER and we were thrilled to be there. yet the ttd was down anyways. well we hear a guy say "hey, come here" and so we do, and hes like get in line, its gonna open in like `15 min. (he was a machinic?) and the line was absolutly empty and were like ok? so we sit down and see if hes telling the truth, and what do we know, a line forms behind us. and five minutes later....we see a empty coaster launch. then in about 20 minutes. its open! and we are the first ones in line! so. we go to the guy after we get off and told him thanks a lot, cause we drove 4 adn a half hours to ride this thing. and he said, no problem. and he started explaing all this crap, and all of a sudden he goes, some times i think this thing isnt even broken. (?!?) and he was like. cp paid so much for it and need to pay it off. and the running cost is so much, that they dont want to fully run it. (ex. mellinum force? that had problems in the beginning but they seemed to dissapear,) and he was like. cp is jsut trying to pay this baby off. i dont know if he was telling the truth or not....................but maybe these coasters run fine? and we just dont know it dun dun dun * i highly doubt it lol just a theroy* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazan Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Coasterlicious Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:54 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- phazan wrote: this is a little off topic, but has anyone noticed ttd has lap restraints and kk has shoulder restraints? Ya, why?... are TTD lapbars not safe? no, i dont think they are unsafe, that just sucks that they arent very different and you have to wear shoulder restraints on kk. if ttd has lap, why cant kk have lap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAcoaster Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 SFGAdv is doing everything right with this. They are posting KK's status on the website and on the recorded message, they are posting signs that KK will be closed on the Parking Lot Tolls, the Ticket booths and anywhere else they can, plus issuing $10 return tickets to disgruntled guests, and even sent a message to SP holder today that the Friday KK ERT will be replaced by ERT on Nitro, Batman the Ride, and Freefall. It's a bad situation that I'm sure they wish they weren't facing, but they are making all the right moves to try and stop the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maliboomer Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 They lik shoul take dawn Kk because it SLUCKS and is justa top thril wannnBE! Six Plagues is just stupAD! I HATE SIX FAGS[/u[]u] CP IS Gonna BUILD the fallest Caster in the world by extending TTD an it will WORK! A matience man TOLD ME#!!1! SO caME SF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazan Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 ^dang man!! slow down a little when you type!!!! i couldnt read one word of that! anyway... why the heck would they take down kk!?! come on now, be logical. do you think they would even consider that? even 15 years later they probably wouldnt consider that! :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I blame Intamin. Having worked at numerous parks with their rides (and worked on a couple of their rides myself), I refuse to believe they can design/build/program/etc. a reliable ride! While Robb has a good point about parks asking too much, Intamin shouldn't be promising things they know they might not be able to deliver. If Intamin signs a contract saying "we can build a 450ft tall ride and have it open on (insert date)," how is it the parks fault if the ride was rushed? Of course, having dealt with Six Flags budgets, I can see how this could have been the fault of an over worked, under payed maintenance team without the proper tools they need to fix the ride right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasters 4 me Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Also, one of the reasons it bust was rumoured that the brakes came up while it was launching. This cause metal shavings to fly about because the cable is trying to launch and at the same time, the brakes are trying to stop it. But apparently, on another forums (Weeweeslap.com) they said that the computer went messed up and causes this because of the heat of the summer. If that was that cause, it isnt even in the middle of summer yet and it will get hotter. So what will the computer be like later? Also rumoured that the brakes me have got bent under the train or on the track. I dont believe this because how would this happen. I still like Intamin, because they are not scared to push the speed record and height. And even if they do break down, they dont care if people point at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Just got back from a 10-day East Coast trip, in part to ride KK. By getting there way early and joining the stampede, I managed to get in three mind-blowing rides last Wednesday and Thursday without QBot, including a front row ride with only a 20-minute wait. Friday's ERT was cancelled because of rain, but the park opened S:UF and Medusa early in compensation. I was bummed not to get several short-wait rides, but now it looks like I was reeeeeal lucky not to get there a week later. Several things. I thought the ops did an incredible job in filling cars, dispatching them, and dealing well with riders. In fact, my pre-launch experience with KK was more pleasant than I'd had with TTD. Kudos. And the general stampede-and-queueing situation was a potential nightmare, but I think SFGAdv did a pretty good job controlling hordes of rampaging teenage boys. While I have no idea of the technical side of things, from what I experienced, SF really cares about KK and wants to provide guests with a good experience. I'm with Robb: maybe it's just a Tower of Babel thingy - you can't build a coaster that reaches to the heavens and not expect trouble. As far as the restraints go: mainly a psychological thing, especially prelaunch. KK's OTSRs are minimalist, and I can't believe, given the forces the ride generates, they make a dime's worth of difference. I didn't notice falling into them on the top hat, and they might make a difference if the bunny generated air, but it doesn't. Hell, once you launch, you could be tied down with ropes and you woouldn't notice it. So - though I know it's not cool to defend SF - let's just say I ain't gonna buy anything from Intamin in the near future. I'm hanging on to my KK tee-shirt, though - it may soon become a collector's item.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Freak Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 This past may was the first time since I was a kid to visit SFGadv. I must say, i was very happy with the park. My impression of it was that they cared about their rides, more than SFNE anyway. As the day went on though, the ride ops did tend to get a little cranky. But can you blame them? Their jobs are quite monotonous and Im suprised they havent gone postal. Anyway, I am just saying that I was happy with SFGadv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Token Yankee Guy Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I got some semi-unoffical news. I talked to Kip on the phone today and he was told that something seriously did happen on Kingda Ka. As for what broke we don't know. But if I were to guess how long it will be down for, it's going to be some time. If you guys have any new news about Kingda Ka, please share since my friend and I are going to SFGAdv this Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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