The official NFL Discussion Thread

[atem122]

Finally, the Chargers looked like what they should look like today. I'm just pissed that SD couldn't sell out its freaking home opener!

[HCLcoasters]

Freezing the kicker should be banned!

[FeelTheFORCE]

I think Cleveland and Buffalo fans should hold a candlelight vigil together for what used to be for these once-proud franchises.

 

I really hope that was sarcastic, because I don't think I would classify losing 4 Super Bowls in a row, and never even being in a Super Bowl as being "once proud."

[Philrad71]

^ I would say that going to four Super Bowls in a row is a pretty big accomplishment even if they were all losses. How many other teams have been four times in a row? I would say that getting in as a wild card team which won all their games on the road to get to a Super Bowl is pretty impressive too...

 

We had some great players on that SB team (Kelly, Smith, Thomas, Reed, Tasker, Talley, etc, etc) so that is definitely something we Bills fans are very proud of here in WNY. Most of these guys (including the coach and owner) are either in the HOF or are on the waiting list. I think that is why we still sell out every game (in a 74,000 seat stadium) and have such a strong fan base - we are all patiently waiting for the return to the days when we actually went to the playoffs and won 10-13 games per season.

 

People are starting to lose hope though and after watching the first two weeks of this season, it is obvious this team is going nowhere for an 11th straight year, except in the top ten on the draft board.

 

And I believe that both Cleveland and Buffalo were well respected and won some titles back in the old AFL days, of which neither you or I would have even been thought of during that timeframe. Cleveland also had some good teams back in the 80's when Clay Matthew's Dad was playing...and let's not forget about Jim Brown.

[BeemerBoy]

^ Well said.

 

And I still think the Atlanta Braves run through the 90's was more futile than the Bills' 4 Super bowl losses.....even though ATL actually won one championship.

[ajc47]

^And of course, it had to be against my Cleveland Indians.

[FeelTheFORCE]

^^ Reminds me of the Colts in recent years. Since 2005 they have won at least 12 games every season, and started at least 7-0 in 4 out of the 5 seasons, yet have only 1 Super Bowl victory to show for it.

 

^^^ To each his own, but in my opinion, losing a Super Bowl "stings" a lot more than having a losing record and not even making the playoffs (let alone losing it 4 times in a row, 3 of which were blowouts, and one was the famous, embarrassing "wide right" missed field goal by Norwood). Just ask Tom Brady and the 18-1 Patriots. Sure going 16-0 was a feat, but not finishing the job practically made that season completely worthless.

 

I also don't buy into the whole "well we were good back in the old AFL days" deal. Nothing against you or the Bills, I just never have, and never will. I'm not knocking on some of the great players of those times, because their play obviously speaks for itself. I just believe that when you judge a team based on championships, Super Bowls should always come first, with AFL and NFL championships almost being afterthoughts. One of the main reasons is the fact that the most amount of teams in the AFL at any point was only 10, and NFL around 15 or so before the merger (as opposed to 24 immediately following the merger, 26 in 1969, and 28 in 1970). I view AFL and NFL championships equivalent to AFC and NFC championships, which obviously shouldn't be the basis/foundation of a debate regarding which franchises are the most successful.

 

Going back to the Colts example I mentioned above, sure they dominated the AFC the past 5 years or so, and no doubt they will still be thought very highly of and be remembered for decades to come, but the Patriots and Steelers will always be thought even higher of them because they won more Super Bowls.

[BeemerBoy]

^^^ To each his own, but in my opinion, losing a Super Bowl "stings" a lot more than having a losing record and not even making the playoffs (let alone losing it 4 times in a row, 3 of which were blowouts, and one was the famous, embarrassing "wide right" missed field goal by Norwood). Just ask Tom Brady and the 18-1 Patriots. Sure going 16-0 was a feat, but not finishing the job practically made that season mean absolutely nothing.

 

I also don't buy into the whole "well we were good back in the old AFL days" deal. Nothing against you or the Bills, I just never have, and never will. I'm not knocking on some of the great players of those times, because their play obviously speaks for itself. I just believe that when you judge a team based on championships, Super Bowls should always come first, with AFL and NFL championships almost being afterthoughts. One of the main reasons is the fact that the most amount of teams in the AFL at any point was only 10, and NFL around 15 or so before the merger (as opposed to 24 immediately following the merger, 26 in 1969, and 28 in 1970). I view AFL and NFL championships equivalent to AFC and NFC championships.

I think the overall point Philrad was trying to convey is that both of those franchises were once "proud." Sometimes it's not always about bottom line championship totals, etc., but what made each of those franchises what they are.....a strong fanbase despite being located in much smaller markets. When present day Bills and Browns fans discuss their teams, it's obviously depressing, but that wasn't always the case.

 

I can actually say the same thing about my Dolphins. There was a point where we were considered an "elite" team in the league. Those days have long since passed, and heck, they haven't even won a Super Bowl since I've been alive!! BUT, the true long time fans are still out there, and they are what made the franchise. Money puts players on the field, but fans keep that team in the city (with Art Modell being the A-hole exception here).

 

So basically, I'm pretty sure he's just implying that despite the postseason futility, both the Bills and the Browns each still used to give their fans a feeling of hope going into each new season, thus filling the cities with a collective "pride" that their teams were very much still relevant.

[FeelTheFORCE]

Fair enough.

 

 

In other news. Giants RB Brandon Jacobs is going to request a trade, as per nfl.com.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81ab0a6f/article/report-frustrated-rb-jacobs-will-ask-giants-to-be-traded?module=HP_headlines

 

I guess only getting 4 carries (granted, they were playing from behind the entire game), and that helmet debacle were the last straw.

[Sir Clinksalot]

I honestly don't blame Jacobs. In this league you can't have a "running back committee" you need a starter and back-up to fill in when the Starter is hurt or needs a breather.

[spaceace12]

I hope the fan that got that helmet got something. My feelings is that once it leaves the boundries of the field (let alone 10 rows up), it is free game to where it goes. I also hope the team and NFL fines him because he could have hurt someone throwing it into the stands (it wasn't on accident).

[Philrad71]

I think the overall point Philrad was trying to convey is that both of those franchises were once "proud." Sometimes it's not always about bottom line championship totals, etc., but what made each of those franchises what they are.....a strong fanbase despite being located in much smaller markets. When present day Bills and Browns fans discuss their teams, it's obviously depressing, but that wasn't always the case.

 

I can actually say the same thing about my Dolphins. There was a point where we were considered an "elite" team in the league. Those days have long since passed, and heck, they haven't even won a Super Bowl since I've been alive!! BUT, the true long time fans are still out there, and they are what made the franchise. Money puts players on the field, but fans keep that team in the city (with Art Modell being the A-hole exception here).

 

So basically, I'm pretty sure he's just implying that despite the postseason futility, both the Bills and the Browns each still used to give their fans a feeling of hope going into each new season, thus filling the cities with a collective "pride" that their teams were very much still relevant.

 

^ Thank you...you hit the nail on the head on all accounts!

 

I still remember how exciting it was to get together with friends and family to watch the Bills play every Sunday. I have been watching them since I was about 14 years old, so it was only a a few years after I started watching them, that they really began their stretch as a formidable NFL team.

 

Teams really didn't want to have to face Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas and Andre Reed on offense every week - it was basically like last years New Orleans & Indianapolis or New England & St. Louis in years past. We had a team that could score a ton of points and our defense was pretty damned good too.

 

I still remember how Bruce Smith always seemed like he was in the backfield every single down and if he wasn't, Darryl Talley, Phil Hansen, or Cornelius Bennett were coming in from other angles. (Clay Matthews III reminds me of some of these guys that played with the same passion). It was a vicious team that just happened to get some bad bounces and have a couple bad outings in the Super Bowls. We used to own Indianapolis (when they were in our division), New England and the Jets back in the day.

 

I still miss the old Miami rivalry (Dan Marino vs. Jim Kelly)...those were the days of some really awesome football games! Unfortunately, it hasn't been the same rivalry ever since Marino and Kelly retired, even though some Bills & Dolphins fans would probably beg to differ.

 

Thus the reasoning behind the rabid support for the Bills in WNY. People around here tend to remember those "glory" days even though it has been a long while since we were a relevant football team. I think there is some worry starting to creep in for the older farts like me as to whether the younger generation will support them with the same exuberance as we did in the 80's & 90's. But every year, we keep selling out just about every game and just hope that we can field another decent and entertaining team in the future.

 

In the meantime, I guess Bills fans will continue to do what we do best...drinking beer, tailgating like crazy MF's, eating hot wings, shoveling snow and taking our lumps week after week!

 

BTW...great win for the Dolphins yesterday! Beating Minnesota in Minneapolis - that's pretty damned impressive! You guys definitely have a good defense going in the first two weeks. I have to admit I was jealous when you guys got Dansby...that was a great signing even if it did cost a bit.

[Sir Clinksalot]

Very exciting game tonight.

 

While my 49ers didn't win, they easily could have. 4 turnovers and you still lose on a last minute field goal to the Super Bowl champs ... I think that's a pretty good showing.

 

Whereas last week they were absolutely embarrassed by the Seahawks, they really hung with the Saints today. Alex Smith played really well. One INT was his fault, one wasn't. He was much more "in charge" of the game tonight. I'm still not convinced that he's good enough to be the QB, but he looked better. Hopefully this is something they can build off of. With the weakness that is the NFC West, I'm not worried about them being able to overcome a 0-2 start.

[Sir Clinksalot]

49ers ...

 

I think it's time for a change. If it's the QB or the coach, I don't care. Alex Smith isn't a starting QB in the NFL. And as much as I LOVE Mike Singletary, I'm beginning to think that the emotional way he runs this team isn't best. He seems more suited to be a coordinator.

 

There are great coaches out there (Gruden/Cowher) who know how to work with a great defense (which the 49ers should have) and a mediocre offense (which the 49ers do have, but they aren't even playing mediocre).

 

Also, as much as it pains me to say this, the Rams have a VERY bright future ahead of them. Bradford looks to be the real deal, you already know that Jackson is the real deal. Get that young O-Line and young defense some experience together and the future is looking good. Now they just need a few people for Bradford to throw to.

 

Funny enough, these are all things people have been saying about the 49ers for the past few years ... well, except for Alex Smith being the real deal. I don't think anybody has ever been stupid enough to say that.

[ajc47]

I guess Trent Edwards will be reading the classifieds now, as Buffalo has given him the pink slip.

[FeelTheFORCE]

Oh man. Steelers look nasty...and with a 4th string QB? They are absolutely strangling teams. I've been saying it since camp...all the pieces of that 08 defense are back in place, so this is a unit not to be taken lightly. Should be a good game next week at home against Baltimore.

[Philrad71]

^ ^I definitely think it was time to cut the ties on Edwards. As bad as he was with the constant check-down passes and taking sacks, he might actually do okay as a back-up on another team with an o-line that doesn't suck.

 

Fitzpatrick isn't the answer either, but at least he made the offense exciting yesterday...with the exception of him throwing those two costly interceptions near the end of the game.

 

But, at least we were treated to an exciting game for a change and not another blow-out. If we could manage to get our offense & defense to play as an entire team one week, we might actually win a game.

 

I am starting to like the Spiller pick, but think that they are showcasing Lynch (by starting him for two weeks) for a trade. He has played hard the last two weeks and has been one of Buffalo's best players, but I would be willing to bet that the Bills want a 1st rounder (minimum 2nd) for him. Not sure if a team would be willing to do that unless a playoff team get's really desperate in the coming weeks. I thought at first that he might end up in Green Bay, but I think Marshawn needs to go to a team where he can be a full time starter and just not temporarily subbing for an injured player.

[ajc47]

^Agreed with what you said. ESPN reports he has been claimed by Jacksonville. Also, the Packers did themselves in with penalties last night.

[FeelTheFORCE]

^ Who is this Jacksonville you speak of? You mean the LA Jaguars?

[Hercules]

Oh to be a Redskins fan.....

[Philrad71]

^^^There are still tons of rumors going around about Lynch going to Green Bay here in B-lo. I think both sides are waiting to see if it get's down to a dire situation before a trade is made. I would assume that the Bills are still going to keep starting him in hopes they can showcase his talent in order to get a 1st or 2nd round pick in exchange. I would be happy with that...or a straight up trade for an offensive/defensive lineman or linebacker that doesn't suck!

 

As far as Edwards being signed by Jacksonville, I am glad to hear he is getting a chance by another team. I have not seen any Jax games this year to know if their o-line is any good, but I would be very curious to see Edwards play under a decent o-line. He may get his chance if Garrard struggles...probably light it up against the Bills in a couple of weeks!

[holyblakbelt]

Welcome back Randy Moss! At least we have someone good until Sidney Rice comes back.

[Sir Clinksalot]

What do the movie Brokeback Mountain and the NFL have in common?

 

 

They both have Cowboys that suck ...

[themeparkman25]

Allegedly, Wade Phillips has been relieved of his duties of Cowboy's head coach. Can't say that is a shocker.

[Sir Clinksalot]

I'm surprised it took this long to be honest ... but after that performance yesterday it's obvious that they just don't care anymore.

 

Of course, I have a hard time feeling bad for the Cowboys.