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Canada's Wonderland Discussion Thread


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An interesting (speculative) idea brought up on another site is that perhaps Leviathan was originally slated to be the next Cedar Fair/Intamin gigacoaster. During the 4 years between Behemoth and Leviathan, CF had the I305 situation among other things that may have caused them to reconsider another giant Intamin ride. At the least it would explain the oddity of following one B&M mega with another.

I absolutely guarantee you that this ride was in the planning stages before any of that I-305 stuff happened, and that I-305 had absolutely nothing to do with this ride being a B&M or an Intmain.

 

Not to mention that if Cedar Fair was going to stop using Intamin because of reliability issues and constant modifications having to be made they would have done that after Top Thrill Dragster's nightmare first season. That ride had more problems than I305 could ever dream of having.

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Am I the only person confused about multiple things that have come with this announcement..?

 

First, Leviathan is a water beast... Behemoth is a land beast... but these rides are located opposite to their respective environments. It would make more sense to have had Leviathan located where Behemoth is and have behemoth where Leviathan is. Also, think back to 2008 when everyone thought that we were getting THIS ride. Weird.

 

Second, I am kind of disappointed in the fact that this is just an over-sized Behemoth. Don't get me wrong, I think that the ride will be AMAZING, but honestly, I don't think it was the "RIGHT" choice for the park. Why not spend this money on an AMAZING sit down looper? Our selection of loopers in the park are all SO outdated and rough, and it would have been nice to see something fill that void.

 

I just have a really empty feeling inside and tonns of mixed emotions regarding this announcement. I know people on here are going to say that I should be happy that my home park is getting another amazing B&M, but honestly, what this park needs is some variety and quality in its coaster selection. I don't believe that the people who are going to disagree with me aren't at least a little bit disappointed / shocked that we are getting something that we already have.

 

Overall I have been left very underwhelmed by the announcement, and I wish that parks would do a little bit more consideration on what they already have before they go out and spend 28 Million Dollars on a ride that we basically already have. That said, I'll wait till I get to ride this beast before I pass any judgments on the ride, but from what I have seen, the ride itself doesn't look like it will disappoint.

Edited by Cyber.Fiber
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I love the name, REALLY love the logo, love the colors, and love the fact that B&M is jumping in the deep end for the first time in a VERY long time. It's a 300-foot coaster, so it's more than likely going to be a very good ride. It also signals that a trend might be starting with giga coasters, and that's a trend I can fully support!

 

However, I'm on the same boat as the people who are dumbfounded by the decision making process on where this coaster was sent. It's entirely possible it was meant for somewhere else like Knott's, but I guess we'll never know. Either way, I'll be there when it opens next year, I'm pretty eager to try this one out.

 

So I'm catching up on the explosion of replies in this thread, ready to post my thoughts on Leviathan, when I came across Steve's post above. I echo basically everything he said. Logo and name? Bad-a$$! B&M building a Giga? LOVE it! Do I want to ride this thing? Abso-freaking-lutely!!

 

Putting the fact that it is fairly similar to Behemoth aside, I really like the layout. Giant drop, speed, turns/overbanks, and airtime hills....works for me! Truth is, I wouldn't consider myself an "experienced" (to borrow Elissa's term) coaster enthusiast by any stretch, considering I've been on a mere 137 of them so far....but I have liked every B&M hyper I have been on - a lot. So seeing them go for broke and enter the Giga market has me stoked for not only this coaster, but their future ones as well.

 

As for the discussion on Leviathan vs. Behemoth, I don't think it is "complaining" (as some have called it) at all. It's a valid discussion to try and figure out the admitted head-scratcher of a move by CF to plop this bad boy into the same park that built a 230-foot version of practically the same coaster 4 years ago. I was thinking about it, and I guess in simplest terms, odd or not, the park decided to super-size a coaster that was incredibly well-received and wildly popular, essentially "going for broke" on back to back coaster installations. And you know what....I say why not? If the long term goal of the park generating increased attendance and revenue off of this new attraction is reached, then from their perspective that's all that really matters.

 

A perplexing decision? Yeah, sure. But the wrong decision for the park? I'm not so sure that's the case at all.

 

And shoot, I'm sure many parks would love the thought of having both a B&M Hyper and B&M Giga in their park! All I know is I'm certainly happy that I've got a valid passport!

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Here's my opinion on the ride.

 

The Good:

I love the fact that B&M has stepped up and made a Giga Coaster. The layout looks incredible and I think the ride will be a success. The colors are definitely appealing and were a great choice.

 

The Bad:

I don't think the fact that they have similar B&Ms are the issue. I think the issue is they should have introduced a new train or a different type of track design. MF and Magnum have been compared because they both are a hyper & giga located in the same park. However, you can see a huge difference just by looking at the two. Magnum looks alot older trackwise & the trains whereas MF looks alot more modern. MF has new track design, new style trains, and a cable lift. Nothing really stands out on Leviathan that makes it look like an upgrade besides the height & speed. So in closing I think the layout & theme should stay just add new trains/track or a different lift to make it stand out as a completely new experience.

 

I feel that this is only the beginning, and Gigas will keep getting better espescially since there are now 2 company's producing them.

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One issue I have with the layout is the insanely long break run at the end. It seems they could have easily squeezed in another airtime hill there where the flat section of breaks are, and just used a sloping break run like on many of the other modern B&M mega coasters.

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I like B&M hypers a whole lot, so I'm excited about this. The first drop is going to be sick. Obviously, it's kind of a weird decision from an enthusiast standpoint, but the GP are just going to see a humongous roller coaster that delivers a quality experience.

 

Back to daydreaming about the imaginary flipping wingrider of my dreams...

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Yea the ending looked a little half baked, but then again they're already spending 28 million. Imagine adding another section of track to weave through after a MCBR. Steel is not cheap.

 

Still though, why not put the brake run closer to the station level instead of spend more money and have a huge raised ramp? This reminds me a lot of the corkscrews on Vortex @ King's Island. Just one of those Wtf moments on a coaster.

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Another curiosity of mine is at the bottom of the first drop, there's a ditch, is this going to be filled with water for a "splashdown" effect? The vids/pics show just a concrete hole...

 

Perhaps they couldn't build the drop as high as they wanted, so the used the Riverview park trick and lowered it below ground level?

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Another curiosity of mine is at the bottom of the first drop, there's a ditch, is this going to be filled with water for a "splashdown" effect? The vids/pics show just a concrete hole...

 

The Ditch is a Ditch, if it was going to be a splash down, they would have made it clear in the rendering. The only purpose of the ditch was probably to increase the drop of the ride without increasing the height (like Goliath and Bizarro) so it breaks a record.

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I think its awesome that B&M has finally decided to dive into the world of Giga coasters. As far as Canada's Wonderland and CF's decision making goes....WHAT THE HELL were they thinking? I don't understand having both Behemoth and this coaster in the same park. If i'm part of the GP whats going on in my mind is "Why ride Behemoth when I can ride the bigger, badder version on the other side of the park?"

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I can somewhat justify the brake run for people - the first flat section is built above Dragon's Fire. Now, I think it would've been really nice to see a small, elevated bump down and back up, still above the coaster already there, and then the slanted brake run.

 

Also, what I've mentioned before is that the first flat brake section probably acts as a block section, allowing the next train to crest the lift hill safely. If that's the case, the three trains can run smoothly, with one on the downhill section of brakes, one nearing the crest of the lift, and one in the station being boarded.

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A good way of justifying the long brake run is the lack of need for an MCBR. If you really think about it it was either have an MCBR somewhere in the track eliminating an element or just have one long brake run that also functions as the MCBR. (I'm talking about train clearances, not brakes or trims)

 

Also for the people who think Behemoth will die now because of this, I don't think that will happen. I know of a LOT of people whom have yet to ride it because they're too scared and they're working their way up. There will still be a crowd that will ride it now that there is more of a gradient.

Edited by Zpoon
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I'm guessing that the long brake run is due to the fact that they're running 3 trains without a mid-course. It probably costs as two blocks in the computer.

 

EDIT: Looks like a couple of people beat me to it.

Edited by Jive
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Another curiosity of mine is at the bottom of the first drop, there's a ditch, is this going to be filled with water for a "splashdown" effect? The vids/pics show just a concrete hole...

 

The Ditch is a Ditch, if it was going to be a splash down, they would have made it clear in the rendering. The only purpose of the ditch was probably to increase the drop of the ride without increasing the height (like Goliath and Bizarro) so it breaks a record.

I'm kind of expecting the ditch to be equipped with fog machines or at least smart lighting... As far as CF concrete jokes go, I still can't see them leaving it looking like a parking lot coaster.

Edited by asimowalk
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For what it's worth... Speaking with a few different members of park management this morning about the planning of this ride, it appears this ride was always intended to end up at Canada's Wonderland. Each of them mentioned that the planning stages of this coaster basically started around the year Behemoth opened. Whether you want to believe or not, that's the info I was provided with this morning.

 

I can kind of see this, but only in a very basic sense, as in " We were hoping to add a "Milennium" to our collection in a few years, now that we have a hyper". Other than that, i think the specifics of how cooperate went about fulfilling that were more like Robb said, otherwise we probably wouldn't be looking at this whole "Behemoth 2" debate.

 

I highly doubt the management would be able to say " we want a bigger, faster version of the last ride, please give us 28 million dollars, kthxbia"

 

Clearly a ride of this scale was mostly a cooperate plan, aided by input by park management over how the last ride went. And judging by how well Behemoth went over at the park, i could see management making plans for a Giga coaster in the future, and after CF made I305 they were obviously one of the possible parks CF was looking at for the next giga. What probably happened was Cedar Fair was pleased with i305 but happier with their past three installations of B&M mega coasters, so they approached B&M to make their next Giga coaster and B&M worked with this request while cooperate figured out which of several parks needed it most.

Edited by Jds03
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New poster, long-time CW fanboy.

 

I must admit, I too was disappointed upon reading the Leviathan announcement. Now, I've come to terms with how amazing the addition will be for the park, despite its shortcomings in the themeing, brake run, and similarity-to-Behemoth departments.

 

I think our universal disappointment stems from our belief that this is the be-all-and-end-all for CW. However, if we were to think more long term, I'm sure CF has much more up their sleeve for CW -- Behemoth and Leviathan are just the tipping point. After all, the press release emphasizes CW's new position as a "destination" park, and as suggested earlier in this thread, CF seems to be turning CW into another Cedar Point in "half the time". There is still time and space for a WingRider, a flyer, a dive machine, and more!

 

Now if only they hadn't sold all that land, this "destination" park could've had a hotel too!

 

(Keep in mind however, the land sale awarded Cedar Fair $23 million in 2009 -- how much did Leviathan cost?)...

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Also for the people who think Behemoth will die now because of this, I don't think that will happen.

 

Does anyone think that will happen? lol

 

First of all I still say the experiences look quite different and I could easily see how people would prefer Behemoth. Plus... now the park has 2 great coasters... if you're spending the whole day I'd imagine you'd ride both multiple times.

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I don't think that this ride really filled any of the "holes" in this park. I'm positive that we would have been much happier and supportive of this decision if it was a floorless or an invert or a dive machine. At least in the future the park can get one of those and have the bonus giga coaster. It seems that it kind of just went out of order. I personally think it would have been awesome if CW and B&M could kill two birds with one stone if they had a dive machine giga coaster, but i'm not the smartest guy and I don't even know if that is possible.

 

All of my headscratching aside, I'm pretty pumped for this ride and my first visit to CW and Canada itself next year.

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