jtstonge Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) I was feeling motivated today and decided to crunch some numbers to estimate the height of the new roller coaster. If the portion of track installed inside the tunnel is the bottom of the first drop, then we can use the conservation of energy principle to calculate the height of the drop as follows: At the top of the drop, the train has gravitational potential energy, Eg: Eg = m*g*h where m is the mass of the train, g is gravitational acceleration (9.81 m/s^2), and h is the height of the drop. At the bottom of the drop, the gravitational energy is converted to kinetic energy, Ek: Ek = 0.5*m*v^2 where v is the speed of the train. (Some energy would be lost due to friction and air resistance, but the amount would be relatively small) Equating Eg and Ek: m*g*h = 0.5*m*v^2 Rearranging: h = (0.5*v^2)/g (m cancels out, and so these calculations are not dependent on the mass of the train) In order to solve for h, we need to estimate the speed of the train at the bottom of the drop. We can do this using the concept of centripetal force and the provisions of ASTM F2291 (Standard Practice for Design of Amusement Rides and Devices). The ASTM standard specifies that the maximum +Gz acceleration that patrons may be exposed to for a duration between 2 and 4 seconds is 4g (4 times the acceleration due to gravity). 4g also seems to be the typical maximum G-force for B&M roller coasters. If we assume that the train experiences 4g at the bottom of the drop, then we can say that the centripetal acceleration and gravitational acceleration sum to 4g: (v^2)/r + g = 4g Rearranging: v^2 = 3*g*r where r is the minimum radius of curvature of the track at the bottom of the drop. Plugging this back into the energy equation: h = 0.5*3*g*r/g Simplifying: h = 1.5*r Now the only thing we need to estimate h is the radius of the track at the bottom of the drop. Based on the photos that have been posted of the tunnel, the portion of visible track appears to enter the tunnel at about 30 degrees. The concrete pad on the other side of the tunnel also appears to have a slope of about 30 degrees. According to Google Maps, the diameter of Vortex's helix is about 25 meters, and based on that I've estimated the length of the curved track to be about 30 meters. If we assume that the track has a constant radius of curvature over this length, then the radius can be calculated from geometry as: r = (0.5*30)/sin(30) r = 30 meters Plugging this into the equation for h: h = 1.5*r h = 45 meters Adding +/- 10% to account for possible errors in my estimates: h = 40 to 50 meters Therefore if my estimates are correct, I would guess that the height of the new roller coaster will be somewhere between 40 and 50 meters (130 to 165 feet). For reference, the height of Valravn at Cedar Point is 68 meters and the height of Gatekeeper is 52 meters. The average height of all B&M dive coasters built to date is 50 meters. Edited April 15, 2018 by jtstonge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicman Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I never thought those equations I learned last week in physics could be actually used for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonni Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 ^^ And now my head hurts lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossed Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I really hope they get a larger Dive coaster than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Married a Canadian Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 If they name the coaster "Ziz" does that change any of the parameters in those equations? I only ask because some people seem to think that the name will affect the ride itself and yet your formulas don't take that into account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtstonge Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 If they name the coaster "Ziz" does that change any of the parameters in those equations? I only ask because some people seem to think that the name will affect the ride itself and yet your formulas don't take that into account? Oh shoot, I forgot to include the Ziz Coefficient!! If I update my calcs, Ziz will be 400 feet tall and will pull 9 G's!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Kaos Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 About 45-50 meters sounds about right to me. I was never convinced it would be 200 ft+, even though that would be great. 150 ft is plenty though, really. We don't have to have another super tall coaster. The dangling vertical drop and the tunnel are enough for this drop to stand out as something special at the park. Thanks for the back of the envelope calculations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarFair1 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I have to ask where and how this mathematical equation even started without knowing anything about the tunnel and ride structure let alone the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicman Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 From what I understand its mostly just estimated based off 4gs of force and from the radius of the track at the bottom of the drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarFair1 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 If they name the coaster "Ziz" does that change any of the parameters in those equations? I only ask because some people seem to think that the name will affect the ride itself and yet your formulas don't take that into account? Oh shoot, I forgot to include the Ziz Coefficient!! If I update my calcs, Ziz will be 400 feet tall and will pull 9 G's!! If I could give you the measurements for the tunnel, would this help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtstonge Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 If I could give you the measurements for the tunnel, would this help? To get the best estimate possible, you need to know the radius of the curved track inside the tunnel. I gave it my best guess based on the pictures you posted, but it's pretty difficult to get an accurate number without a picture of the track taken directly from the side. The dimensions of the tunnel aren't really that important, it's the track that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarFair1 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 If I could give you the measurements for the tunnel, would this help? To get the best estimate possible, you need to know the radius of the curved track inside the tunnel. I gave it my best guess based on the pictures you posted, but it's pretty difficult to get an accurate number without a picture of the track taken directly from the side. The dimensions of the tunnel aren't really that important, it's the track that matters. You may want to watch our live stream at 8:30 pm on Amusement Insiders. Thanks to you we looked into things that we never thought to even look into! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravager Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Im hoping to see images this weekend?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenbowl Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Im hoping to see images this weekend?! I don't think the park opens until the 28th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnlloyd Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Im hoping to see images this weekend?! I don't think the park opens until the 28th Season Pass Sneak Preview Night is on Friday, April 27th, 2018. The park officially opens for the season on Sunday, April 29th, 2018. Saturday, April 28th is Media Day, in other words the park is closed to the general public that day. For exact operating hours, please check out the calendar on Canada's Wonderland's website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotsy Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Im hoping to see images this weekend?! I don't think the park opens until the 28th Season Pass Sneak Preview Night is on Friday, April 27th, 2018. The park officially opens for the season on Sunday, April 29th, 2018. Saturday, April 28th is Media Day, in other words the park is closed to the general public that day. For exact operating hours, please check out the calendar on Canada's Wonderland's website. Wasn't Media Day supposed to be today and Preview Night last night? Did things get switched because of the weather or did I read/remember wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnlloyd Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Im hoping to see images this weekend?! I don't think the park opens until the 28th Season Pass Sneak Preview Night is on Friday, April 27th, 2018. The park officially opens for the season on Sunday, April 29th, 2018. Saturday, April 28th is Media Day, in other words the park is closed to the general public that day. For exact operating hours, please check out the calendar on Canada's Wonderland's website. Wasn't Media Day supposed to be today and Preview Night last night? Did things get switched because of the weather or did I read/remember wrong? You had read it wrong as Season Pass Sneak Preview Night has been scheduled for April 27th since it was officially announced by the park earlier this year. But, what was cancelled due to the weather we had received last weekend was the Bank days that were to occur this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khristopher Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Im hoping to see images this weekend?! I don't think the park opens until the 28th Season Pass Sneak Preview Night is on Friday, April 27th, 2018. The park officially opens for the season on Sunday, April 29th, 2018. Saturday, April 28th is Media Day, in other words the park is closed to the general public that day. For exact operating hours, please check out the calendar on Canada's Wonderland's website. Wasn't Media Day supposed to be today and Preview Night last night? Did things get switched because of the weather or did I read/remember wrong? Is this the same kotsy from UrbanToronto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotsy Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Is this the same kotsy from UrbanToronto? guilty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynen Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Just a few questions about preview night. 1. Will my seasons pass for parking work that night? 2. For buying my friend the 15.99 tickets how early can i do that? Below is a sketch of Valravns track on skyriders plot of land. Valravn on skyriders plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord denning Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Is this the same kotsy from UrbanToronto? guilty! You take some great pictures - anything of Wonderland or other theme parks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotsy Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Is this the same kotsy from UrbanToronto? guilty! You take some great pictures - anything of Wonderland or other theme parks? Thanks very much! I actually have a bunch from before I started taking a serious interest in photography. Might be fun retouching some of them now that you mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnlloyd Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just a few questions about preview night. 1. Will my seasons pass for parking work that night? 2. For buying my friend the 15.99 tickets how early can i do that? Below is a sketch of Valravns track on skyriders plot of land. Parking is typically complimentary on Season Pass Sneak Preview Night. But even if it isn't this year (for whatever reason), your season parking will work. As for buying a $15.99 bring a friend ticket, that can be purchased online ta Canada's Wonderland's website right now. The ticket is only valid for that night and must be presented with a valid season pass holder when entering the park that night. I hope the information I provided you helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynen Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just a few questions about preview night. 1. Will my seasons pass for parking work that night? 2. For buying my friend the 15.99 tickets how early can i do that? Below is a sketch of Valravns track on skyriders plot of land. Parking is typically complimentary on Season Pass Sneak Preview Night. But even if it isn't this year (for whatever reason), your season parking will work. As for buying a $15.99 bring a friend ticket, that can be purchased online ta Canada's Wonderland's website right now. The ticket is only valid for that night and must be presented with a valid season pass holder when entering the park that night. I hope the information I provided you helps! Awesome thats helps alot thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarFair1 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Canada's Wonderland Hotel pictures and permits/ blueprints! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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