Canada's Wonderland Discussion Thread

[SharkTums]

Behemoth: 1,545 riders per hour

Tatsu: 1,600 riders per hour

 

Loading time may be longer, but capacity is as good or better.

 

There is no way Tatsu has ever gotten close to that number! Then again, it's at SFMM!

[scottian]

All dem trims!

[adavis]

No. If capacity was the #1 concern they could've very easily went with a floorless or a flyer. I wasn't buying into the "this was meant for another park" line of thinking at first, but once the layout was released that almost seems like a given.

 

Flyers load much slower than a B&M hyper, there is no comparison to be had there. My experience with floorless trains is fairly limited, but neither of the two that I've been on loaded anywhere near as fast as what I've seen done on a hyper. Again, my capacity theory could be wrong, I just don't see a flyer being the solution.

 

Behemoth: 1,545 riders per hour

Tatsu: 1,600 riders per hour

 

Loading time may be longer, but capacity is as good or better.

 

I'm with SharkTums below. I've never seen a flyer load anywhere near as fast as that.

[Josh Linn]

Behemoth: 1,545 riders per hour

Tatsu: 1,600 riders per hour

 

Loading time may be longer, but capacity is as good or better.

 

There is no way Tatsu has ever gotten close to that number! Then again, it's at SFMM!

 

 

I just used that as example because it was the first flyer that came to mind. I just looked up Air, S:UF, and Manta and they're all listed at 1500 rph, respectively. Keyword is listed, I guess.

 

But point being, even if they're not 1500 pph efficient and are ran at 1000 or 1250 pph, that's still a very good capacity and likely would've been looked at if CW was not getting something intended for someone else.

[coasterfreak101]

I'll say I'm happy Leviathan has these trains, but I also haven't been on the V trains. I just like the look of the straight 4 a lot better.

 

The V-trains are really stupid, honestly. The layout makes little sense, feels awkward, and they rattle - something I've never experienced on a regular B&M hyper train (and they've been around for what, more than a decade now?)

 

Behemoth: 1,545 riders per hour

Tatsu: 1,600 riders per hour

 

That's theoretical. I can't even imagine that Tatsu gets anywhere close to that. That's dependent on the ops, and they're terrible. Plus, Behemoth has the new trains. Both Apollo's Chariot and Silver Star (theoretically) put through 1,750 riders per hour. With the new trains, Intimidator232 puts through 1,600 riders per hour, and Diamondback puts through 1,620. The hypers probably hit their theoretical capacity way faster than any floorless or (especially) flyer could.

 

*EDIT: Plus, if it was a last-minute move to CW, that probably makes it either Leviathan or nothing at all. They can't just order up a flyer or a floorless with a few months to go instead - if they had that planned already, Leviathan would be going somewhere else.

Edited August 18, 2011 by coasterfreak101

[adavis]

I just used that as example because it was the first flyer that came to mind. I just looked up Air, S:UF, and Manta and they're all listed at 1500 rph, respectively. Keyword is listed, I guess.

 

But point being, even if they're not 1500 pph efficient and are ran at 1000 or 1250 pph, that's still a very good capacity and likely would've been looked at if CW was not getting something intended for someone else.

 

1500 people an hour versus 1000 per hour is a huge difference. As slow as I've seen both S:UF and Manta load, and as fast as I've seen DB and RB load, I would find it hard to compare them at all. Not to mention, I've seen hyper coaster crews really push through crowds, like getting challenges from other parks after a particularly fast hour to try and beat the other parks new per hour record.

[6flagsbrad]

^^ And I would guess Behemoth runs three trains fairly often, while Tatsu usually has two.

 

I am really hyping this new coaster, yet I know I probably won't ever get to ride it. I'm really hoping this could be the new coaster for Knott's though.

[osm]

I honestly don't think it was meant for another park. Maybe there are some similarities to Behemoth because Behemoth is an incredibly popular ride at North America's most-attended seasonal park, so it could be that CF told B&M to give Leviathan some basic similarities, but also make it different enough that enthusiasts don't complain (didn't work). In the design, I see B&M being influenced by both Millennium and I305, with multiple overbanks, and high-speed directional changes. Besides, KBF, CGA, and MIA are the only other parks where this could work, if Behemoth is too similar. CGA and MIA don't have the justified attendance. And I suppose KBF could build outside the park, but they would need a lot more space than for Ghostrider, and it would be extremely expensive. And besides, the GP won't say that it's too similar to Behemoth. This is a park where a SLC is the second most popular ride (though I liked it too). 99% of parkgoers there have never seen a giga, and will be awestruck by the size instead of thinking "we already have this." CF is truly the best thing to ever happen to CW, and I expect to see more big additions in the next 5-10 years.

[adavis]

^^ And I would guess Behemoth runs three trains fairly often, while Tatsu usually has two.

 

Right, exactly. With good ride ops the B&M hypers are serious people eaters.

[jzoole]

So I definitely understand why this is a good move for CW. I don't think the general public is going to realize just how similar to Behemoth this is. They're going to see commercials for a giant new roller coaster and want to go ride it. And with more than three million visitors every season, CW can use another high-capacity people eater, and with Behemoth as wildly popular as it is, it makes sense that they would simply take the same concept to the next level. So I'm not mad at them. I get it.

 

But personally, I wish this amazing-looking beast was going to another park. The main reason for that is, aside from Behemoth, the rest of CW's lineup is SO lackluster. I really really REALLY want to ride Leviathan, but it's hard for me to justify making a ten hour car trip to ride a couple of amazing coasters, and then fill the rest of my day with, a boomerang, an SLC, a Zamperla flyer, a couple mediocre old Dinn woodies, a wild mouse, a crappy Arrow looper, a Togo standup.... you get where I'm going with this. So for my own selfish reasons, I wish Leviathan was going into a park that has a good supporting cast of coasters that make the whole trip worthwhile.

 

Also, I have always had this fantasy about how if I won the lottery (I'm talking about like the $300 million jackpot) I would build an amusement park, and I would have a hyper in my park and I was going to call it Leviathan. Lol. So now I can't do that. Bummer!

[kunpc1]

For what it's worth... Speaking with a few different members of park management this morning about the planning of this ride, it appears this ride was always intended to end up at Canada's Wonderland. Each of them mentioned that the planning stages of this coaster basically started around the year Behemoth opened. Whether you want to believe or not, that's the info I was provided with this morning.

[robbalvey]

it could be that CF told B&M to give Leviathan some basic similarities, but also make it different enough that enthusiasts don't complain (didn't work).

Parks and ride manufacturers don't design rides for enthusiasts. No matter what they do, we'll never be happy. That's just a given. They design rides that they feel will be popular with the paying general public.

[6flagsbrad]

In the design, I see B&M being influenced by both Millennium and I305, with multiple overbanks, and high-speed directional changes.

 

I actually think this looks like a larger version of Intimidator Carowinds, with the whole layout being up against the parking lot and park border.

[Ed Farmer]

An interesting (speculative) idea brought up on another site is that perhaps Leviathan was originally slated to be the next Cedar Fair/Intamin gigacoaster. During the 4 years between Behemoth and Leviathan, CF had the I305 situation among other things that may have caused them to reconsider another giant Intamin ride. At the least it would explain the oddity of following one B&M mega with another.

[robbalvey]

An interesting (speculative) idea brought up on another site is that perhaps Leviathan was originally slated to be the next Cedar Fair/Intamin gigacoaster. During the 4 years between Behemoth and Leviathan, CF had the I305 situation among other things that may have caused them to reconsider another giant Intamin ride. At the least it would explain the oddity of following one B&M mega with another.

I absolutely guarantee you that this ride was in the planning stages before any of that I-305 stuff happened, and that I-305 had absolutely nothing to do with this ride being a B&M or an Intmain.

[osm]

it could be that CF told B&M to give Leviathan some basic similarities, but also make it different enough that enthusiasts don't complain (didn't work).

Parks and ride manufacturers don't design rides for enthusiasts. No matter what they do, we'll never be happy.

Very true.

[coasterbill]

An interesting (speculative) idea brought up on another site is that perhaps Leviathan was originally slated to be the next Cedar Fair/Intamin gigacoaster. During the 4 years between Behemoth and Leviathan, CF had the I305 situation among other things that may have caused them to reconsider another giant Intamin ride. At the least it would explain the oddity of following one B&M mega with another.

I absolutely guarantee you that this ride was in the planning stages before any of that I-305 stuff happened, and that I-305 had absolutely nothing to do with this ride being a B&M or an Intmain.

 

Not to mention that if Cedar Fair was going to stop using Intamin because of reliability issues and constant modifications having to be made they would have done that after Top Thrill Dragster's nightmare first season. That ride had more problems than I305 could ever dream of having.

[Cyber.Fiber]

Am I the only person confused about multiple things that have come with this announcement..?

 

First, Leviathan is a water beast... Behemoth is a land beast... but these rides are located opposite to their respective environments. It would make more sense to have had Leviathan located where Behemoth is and have behemoth where Leviathan is. Also, think back to 2008 when everyone thought that we were getting THIS ride. Weird.

 

Second, I am kind of disappointed in the fact that this is just an over-sized Behemoth. Don't get me wrong, I think that the ride will be AMAZING, but honestly, I don't think it was the "RIGHT" choice for the park. Why not spend this money on an AMAZING sit down looper? Our selection of loopers in the park are all SO outdated and rough, and it would have been nice to see something fill that void.

 

I just have a really empty feeling inside and tonns of mixed emotions regarding this announcement. I know people on here are going to say that I should be happy that my home park is getting another amazing B&M, but honestly, what this park needs is some variety and quality in its coaster selection. I don't believe that the people who are going to disagree with me aren't at least a little bit disappointed / shocked that we are getting something that we already have.

 

Overall I have been left very underwhelmed by the announcement, and I wish that parks would do a little bit more consideration on what they already have before they go out and spend 28 Million Dollars on a ride that we basically already have. That said, I'll wait till I get to ride this beast before I pass any judgments on the ride, but from what I have seen, the ride itself doesn't look like it will disappoint.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Cyber.Fiber

[PhantomNick]

I love the name, REALLY love the logo, love the colors, and love the fact that B&M is jumping in the deep end for the first time in a VERY long time. It's a 300-foot coaster, so it's more than likely going to be a very good ride. It also signals that a trend might be starting with giga coasters, and that's a trend I can fully support!

 

However, I'm on the same boat as the people who are dumbfounded by the decision making process on where this coaster was sent. It's entirely possible it was meant for somewhere else like Knott's, but I guess we'll never know. Either way, I'll be there when it opens next year, I'm pretty eager to try this one out.

 

So I'm catching up on the explosion of replies in this thread, ready to post my thoughts on Leviathan, when I came across Steve's post above. I echo basically everything he said. Logo and name? Bad-a$$! B&M building a Giga? LOVE it! Do I want to ride this thing? Abso-freaking-lutely!!

 

Putting the fact that it is fairly similar to Behemoth aside, I really like the layout. Giant drop, speed, turns/overbanks, and airtime hills....works for me! Truth is, I wouldn't consider myself an "experienced" (to borrow Elissa's term) coaster enthusiast by any stretch, considering I've been on a mere 137 of them so far....but I have liked every B&M hyper I have been on - a lot. So seeing them go for broke and enter the Giga market has me stoked for not only this coaster, but their future ones as well.

 

As for the discussion on Leviathan vs. Behemoth, I don't think it is "complaining" (as some have called it) at all. It's a valid discussion to try and figure out the admitted head-scratcher of a move by CF to plop this bad boy into the same park that built a 230-foot version of practically the same coaster 4 years ago. I was thinking about it, and I guess in simplest terms, odd or not, the park decided to super-size a coaster that was incredibly well-received and wildly popular, essentially "going for broke" on back to back coaster installations. And you know what....I say why not? If the long term goal of the park generating increased attendance and revenue off of this new attraction is reached, then from their perspective that's all that really matters.

 

A perplexing decision? Yeah, sure. But the wrong decision for the park? I'm not so sure that's the case at all.

 

And shoot, I'm sure many parks would love the thought of having both a B&M Hyper and B&M Giga in their park! All I know is I'm certainly happy that I've got a valid passport!

[skyrocket010]

Here's my opinion on the ride.

 

The Good:

I love the fact that B&M has stepped up and made a Giga Coaster. The layout looks incredible and I think the ride will be a success. The colors are definitely appealing and were a great choice.

 

The Bad:

I don't think the fact that they have similar B&Ms are the issue. I think the issue is they should have introduced a new train or a different type of track design. MF and Magnum have been compared because they both are a hyper & giga located in the same park. However, you can see a huge difference just by looking at the two. Magnum looks alot older trackwise & the trains whereas MF looks alot more modern. MF has new track design, new style trains, and a cable lift. Nothing really stands out on Leviathan that makes it look like an upgrade besides the height & speed. So in closing I think the layout & theme should stay just add new trains/track or a different lift to make it stand out as a completely new experience.

 

I feel that this is only the beginning, and Gigas will keep getting better espescially since there are now 2 company's producing them.

[orangeblue]

One issue I have with the layout is the insanely long break run at the end. It seems they could have easily squeezed in another airtime hill there where the flat section of breaks are, and just used a sloping break run like on many of the other modern B&M mega coasters.

[DCody]

I like B&M hypers a whole lot, so I'm excited about this. The first drop is going to be sick. Obviously, it's kind of a weird decision from an enthusiast standpoint, but the GP are just going to see a humongous roller coaster that delivers a quality experience.

 

Back to daydreaming about the imaginary flipping wingrider of my dreams...

[Kumbarider1993]

I love the layout, but wtf is up with the ending?

[Gnome]

Yea the ending looked a little half baked, but then again they're already spending 28 million. Imagine adding another section of track to weave through after a MCBR. Steel is not cheap.

[harper83087]

Another curiosity of mine is at the bottom of the first drop, there's a ditch, is this going to be filled with water for a "splashdown" effect? The vids/pics show just a concrete hole...