Erik Johnson Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Oh well, it looks like that I will miss out on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Question: Is it possible (and money saving) for all the turns that are experiencing stress to get retracked by Vekoma? From the video, the ride really flies through the turns and I can see why there are maintenence issues/stress on the track and the trains themselves. I would seriously hate to see the world lose another Arrow Suspended because they're so awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldJJman Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Question:Is it possible (and money saving) for all the turns that are experiencing stress to get retracked by Vekoma? I would seriously doubt it. Trust me (or anyone else who has ridden it) the videos just can't capture the awesomeness of how high and hard those cars are swinging! Even if they were able to, the ride would not be the same!! If you use Vampire at Chessington as an example of just changing the trains: Vampire was "Ok" at best using the Arrow trains, nothing special. With the newer Vekoma trains, it was much slower, and not nearly as much fun. IF it were to ever be rebuilt, I would hazard a guess that B&M could make a great terrain inverted on the existing layout and have a really good ride. But "great"? Tough call. Like Joey said: The ride clearly pushes the limits of what an Arrow suspended coaster can do. What he said is VERY true. The closest anything has come (and DEFINITELY NOT achieves) to Eagle Fortress, is the 8-10 seconds where Big Bad Wolf drops over the Rhine river. There was a rumor (I can't confirm or deny it. Maybe Elissa or Robb can) that after TPR went there in 2007 (and were blown away by it!!), when Mitch's poll came out, the Koreans saw how highly it was ranked, they decided NOT to scrap it THAT year. I will be sad if it is scrapped, no doubt. It's my #3 ranked coaster. JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteornotes Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I'm with what these guys have said. This ride clearly does things it probalby should not do, and it cannot be good for the structure. But if they change the trains, there's no way it will ride the same. It would be very sad if this ride never operated again. I also rate it #3 (behind EGF and Kawasemi), and hope I get a chance to ride it again some day. dt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I would seriously doubt it. Trust me (or anyone else who has ridden it) the videos just can't capture the awesomeness of how high and hard those cars are swinging! Even if they were able to, the ride would not be the same!! If you use Vampire at Chessington as an example of just changing the trains: Vampire was "Ok" at best using the Arrow trains, nothing special. With the newer Vekoma trains, it was much slower, and not nearly as much fun. I'm assuming that Eagle Fortress has KI Bat-style intensity, which means that even though the turns are banked, the trains travelling at a very high speed on top of the insane swinging is bound to have a negative effect on the track, causing a huge maintenence issue. If Everland decided to allow Vekoma to retrack EF, the coaster would lose some of its intensity, but in return the coaster would last longer and require less maintenence. Not to mention EF is already a highly intense coaster (judging by the video) so losing a little bit of intensity probably will be a good thing... More questions: Did Vampire recieve a Mean Streak style neutering, where the entire coaster became a slow, boring, rough ride after the retracking? Did Vampire recieve a full retracking, partial retracking, or no retracking? Did the new trains cause Vampire to become slower? If that's the case, maybe if Everland kept the original Arrow trains and allowed Vekoma to retrack the whole thing the ride would still have its intensity, but the maintenence costs wouldn't be as bad. Trims could also be added at strategic points in the ride where the most wear and tear is suffered. I haven't been on either Bat or EF, but I have been on BBW, and that alone is an insane coaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 The ride is custom designed and built into a very heavily vegitated area. Retracking is probably not such a simple, cost effective option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ccron10 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 After seeing the POV, it does look like one wicked ride. The only spot where I could see the track having trouble is at the very end of the ride in the final few turns. The cars swing so much that it seems like it could be compared to how high the cars swung on The Bat. It seems like that would be the only section that would need to be fixed by just banking the track more in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldJJman Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 If Everland decided to allow Vekoma to retrack EF,... I really don't think that's an option. The cost of doing that would probably be more than the original investment. ... so losing a little bit of intensity probably will be a good thing... No. Seriously. it would RUIN the fun of the ride. Did Vampire recieve a Mean Streak style neutering, where the entire coaster became a slow, boring, rough ride after the retracking? Vampire wasn't a thrilling ride before the change! It was "Ok" at best. Did Vampire recieve a full retracking, partial retracking, or no retracking? AFAIK, only in the station and the approach to the 2nd lift hill. (Erik may shed some light on this. Did the new trains cause Vampire to become slower? Definitely. The trains weigh about 30% less, and don't swing out that much at all. Trims could also be added at strategic points in the ride where the most wear and tear is suffered. That itself, would destroy a great ride!! ... but I have been on BBW, and that alone is an insane coaster. Our opinion differs greatly here. BBW is a descent coaster with about 8-10 seconds of good fun. Other than that, meh. Though it is fun at night. The intense insanity of Eagle Fortress IS tearing itself apart. There's no reason to doubt that. To re-track any or all of it, would be insane! It is buried amongst hundreds of trees on a hillside. I would imagine the BIGGEST problem is with the foundational supports. That hillside is quite steep in places, and with that ride careening around over all these years, I would have no problem believing that the integrity of the supports themselves are in question. I too, hope for the best, as I know I'll be back there again someday. JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Sorry for asking so many questions, but I really wanna know what the park can do to save the ride... Did the new trains cause Vampire to become slower? Definitely. The trains weigh about 30% less, and don't swing out that much at all. Interesting... I always thought that heavier trains would slow the train down and lighter trains would speed everything up... Wasn't Boulder Dash retracked at one point? And if it was, how did that improve the ride overall. I know that EF and BD are two different coasters, but wouldn't retracking a wooden coaster be just as difficult as retracking an old steel coaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Disneylander Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Boulder Dash is nothing compared to Eagle Fortress. Compared to EF, Boulder Dash sits in a parking lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 ^ Really? But isn't BD still on a fairly heavily forested mountain? (probably not as much as EF though) And considering it's a wooden coaster, it would still be fairly difficult to retrack. Did the trims at the bottom of Wolf's drop effectively "ruin" the final drop? I never got to ride the coaster pre-trim, but the final drop is still pretty awesome, even with the trim turned on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboard83 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Did the trims at the bottom of Wolf's drop effectively "ruin" the final drop? I never got to ride the coaster pre-trim, but the final drop is still pretty awesome, even with the trim turned on. I don't believe BBW ever opened to the public with out that trim break on the drop. In fact, the ride's grand opening was delayed due to adding breaks throughout the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Disneylander Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Yeah...BBW's final drop was heavily trimmed either shortly before or shortly after its opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odene497 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 ^ Really? But isn't BD still on a fairly heavily forested mountain? (probably not as much as EF though) And considering it's a wooden coaster, it would still be fairly difficult to retrack. The part of Boulderdash that was rebuilt/tracked is at the base of the mountain, and fairly accessible. And it did improve the ride greatly, basically because they took a plain piece of trick track and made it a triple up (with incredible air). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 ^^ Yes but how did the trims affect the final drop and the turn into the woods? Was that part of the ride "neutered"? I know when I first rode it (and subsequent rides afterward) that part felt pretty insane compared to the other coasters at BGW. Now I just watched the POV, and it seems that a large portion of the coaster WOULD have to be retracked in order to decrease maintainence costs. It also seems that some parts of the ride seem to be difficult to access, while other parts of the ride seem to be in a fairly open space... Personally I think the park should've added a few more maintainence roads around the layout when it was first built to allow easier access in case something like a retracking had to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCoaster Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 How does one retrack a steel coaster? Do they physically replace the track and redesign some of the supports or can they get away with welding plates to the existing structure to retrofit it so it can handle the forces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Disneylander Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I don't think an access road would even be able to be built. Eagle Fortress is pretty much built straddling a cliff. Think SFFT's cliffs with trees, and you have a rough idea of the insane terrain EF sits on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 ^ But I was wondering why Everland didn't consider building many access roads during construction. The track had to get up onto the hill somehow. Don't parks normally consider maintainence costs when they build coasters? Especially with something as intense as Eagle Fortress. How does one retrack a steel coaster? Do they physically replace the track and redesign some of the supports or can they get away with welding plates to the existing structure to retrofit it so it can handle the forces? I believe it depends on the coaster and how much wear and tear it is facing. Steel Phantom and Wicked Twister had the track removed and replaced, while I believe if the wear is small enough, welding extra support to the track/supports would fix any problems. In Eagle Fortress's case, the coaster has been running like KI's Bat for almost 20 years now, so I can only imagine how much wear and tear the ride is suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastuso Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I've been fascinated by suspended coasters since standing, in near tears, in front of the Bat because it was SBNO. EF is absolutely awesome. I do think BBW was close when I rode it in 86. Yes, there have always been brakes on the last drop, but there have been some added since 86. I think it was damn close to EF awesomeness in 86. It'll be a damn shame to lose EF, as big of a tragedy as any coaster loss could be. It is truly the pinnacle of the seemingly completed suspended coaster series, and it is the best setting of any coaster. Flying through the trees, and only being able to see th track above you and no supports is just awesome. I'm just damn happy I was lucky enough to get to ride it last year. -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 BBW is the only suspended coaster I've ridden and IMO it's an amazing ride. Now that might be because I haven't been on many coasters in my lifetime (too chicken). The trims on the final drop are barely felt and the drop over the lake and it is still incredible, which makes me think that if Eagle Fortress is given trims similar to the ones on Wolf's final drop, it would still deliver an amazing ride and become less of a maintainence nightmare. I would hate to see something as incredible as Eagle Fortress close, especially since I haven't been able to experience its awesomeness. And at this rate, I'll probably never get to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 ^ But I was wondering why Everland didn't consider building many access roads during construction. The track had to get up onto the hill somehow. Don't parks normally consider maintainence costs when they build coasters? Especially with something as intense as Eagle Fortress. They built the roads they needed to. You don't buy a steel coaster with the intent to have to retrack it 17 years later. You're assuming that everyone knew along the ride would tear itself apart, which I highly doubt was the case. I also highly doubt all the trees were there when the ride was built...a lot can change in 17 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcoaster Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 ^ He makes a very good point. As time changes more trees an vines an etc grow over the track. I can't imagine how hard it is to inspect that track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastuso Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I know I saw a pic of EF around opening, showing a fairly baren plot of land with a lot of newly planted trees. I'll have to see if I saved it somewhere. -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Maybe I'm just being naive, but I always thought that parks just assumed that their signature rides would experience wear and tear and had plans for the coaster in case a situation like that was occurring. I'm also assuming that the wear and tear that EF is experiencing is not something new considering its been running like KI's Bat for the past 17 years. I thought that the people working maintenence on the ride had already noticed that the coaster was tearing itself apart long ago and notified a higher up, but nothing was really done to fix it. Which is why the coaster has been at risk for demolition in recent years. I know that parks like BGW and CP have done this to some of their rides to reduce wear and tear. I also know that Disney does this constantly to make sure their rides are running in peak condition for years to come. And like I said before, this coaster has been running like KI's Bat for 17 years which allows me to assume that the coaster was already experiencing some wear and tear within the first few years of operation. And to expand on that point, KI's Bat ran for two years before KI decided to tear it out due to maintenance problems. So basically Everland technically neglected EF and allowed it to tear itself apart before even considering any sort of maintenance on the ride whatsoever. Not to mention if they converted the original construction roads into maintenance roads, nature couldn't take over them because they are so heavily used by traffic. Dan - Or maybe I'm just being naive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loefet Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I don't think you can assume that EF is experiencing the same kind of wear and tear as the Bat, since there have been a lot of improvements made since the initial design of the suspended coaster. But it still pretty bad compared to other rides. If it had been as bad as the Bat then they would have removed it a long time ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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