Holiday Park Discussion Thread

[gatorchomp83]

I don't exactly consider that calling you out, sorry if you took it that way. Was merely addressing you, and I like to use people's names when I address them directly. I also feel as though I have at least a minimal friendship with both you and Robb, and am merely having a grown-up debate about an issue that all of us have an opinion on.

 

On the flip side, I feel at this point that I, as well as others in this thread who are offering a different opinion than yours and Robb's, are being straight-up called out and patronized. Which is cool, your website, your rules. But I think its absurd that this has seemingly turned that corner, and if I'm wrong, please let me know.

[Skycoastin Steve]

Well at least the best Intamin of all has never derailed or had any major incidents. That coaster of course being at Cedar Point and having blue track.

 

No, seriously!

 

 

 

In all seriousness, it's no secret that Intamin has had a bit of a checkered past, but as has already been said, it doesn't necessarily reflect negatively on their ride quality. As is stated so eloquently by the fantastic film Forrest Gump, $hit happens. Even on rides that are seemingly maintained correctly along with guidelines, these are pretty complex and LARGE machines. Stuff will go wrong from time to time.

[gisco]

Wouldn't it be cool if this thread actually talked about Expedition GeForce and the accident?

[robbalvey]

if I'm wrong, please let me know.

You're wrong. I'm letting you know.

 

Wouldn't it be cool if this thread actually talked about Expedition GeForce and the accident?

This is actually the point I was getting at over the last page and a half of nonsense, but I failed at saying it as eloquently as Bob.

 

--Robb "Thank you Bob..." Alvey

Edited May 1, 2010 by robbalvey

[zjohn1988]

One thing I wonder about is the statement about emergency stop. This coaster doesn´t have one, the only active brakes are in the station.

I may be completely wrong, but I believe that the trains do have emergency brakes built in. I know that in 1998 on the Demon at SFGAm, a guide wheel separated from the axle of the last car. A mechanical safety system built into the wheel assembly engaged which prevented the train from derailing. I think that a similar situation happened here when the wheel assembly on Expedition GeForce failed. I'm just glad that the safety system worked and people aren't seriously hurt because it could have been much worse. Hopefully the European media won't make a big deal out of this like they would here in the states.

 

 

There are no mechanical braking systems on the trains..when an axle breaks, it's going to jam in the track and either break off completely or/and jam the train into the spine/ribs of the track.

[robbalvey]

I have been in direct contact with Holiday Park since the incident yesterday. They have asked me to post the following information:

 

"Now it is very important to gather the facts. We are working together with TÜV-Süd and Intamin on finding the cause of the defective axle. One car of the seven-car-train was affected by the axle. That caused the stop. The train itself is on the track, completely. Meaning, the train did not derail.

 

No one was injured. Eight passengers mentioned dizziness and bruises.

 

At this point a technical failure caused the stop of the coaster train.

 

Thanks again for the support. --Rudi ”

 

I would also assume they have been reading this thread because it was mentioned to me that "...it is very dangerous when one gets lost in speculations and assumptions.." and I would take that as a message to some of you that not only do Elissa and I get frustrated with some of the fabricated details some of our members choose to post, but the industry professionals do as well. Before you post, think about who's going to read what you're writing, and how it reflects not only on you personally, but on the website as a whole.

 

I really just want to point out that while some people in this thread have chosen to make up facts and bicker back and forth to prove points that aren't even directly related to the accident, I am actually the one speaking directly with the parks and ride manufacturers to get you all the ACTUAL STORY ON WHAT IS HAPPENING with the ride.

 

I would kindly ask that some of you would have a bit more respect towards Elissa and I and know that we working to bring you ACTUAL, REAL INFORMATION about the incident. And if the reason why it would seem that we get a little frustrated and annoyed at time is because maybe...just maybe we actually have a little more in depth information due to our relationships in the amusement business, and not all the time we are able to fully communicate that information.

 

Guys, give us the credit we deserve for going the extra mile for you all and going to the source for information. I don't think we are asking for too much in this case. While some of you may disagree with us, fine, but we actually DO know what we are talking about.

 

I really send thanks to Holiday Park for communicating directly with us. I'm sure they have a lot of other things to worry about at the moment, but they are willing to give us as many details as possible. I'm sure this is a very difficult time for them and right now we should be trying to give them our support. I would hope this is something that everyone who reads this website would be able to agree on.

 

--Robb "Clearly the parks put trust in us and I'm asking you all to do the same." Alvey

Edited May 1, 2010 by robbalvey

[Tmcdllr]

"Now it is very important to gather the facts..."

 

I think that is the important thing to remember.

 

Thanks Robb for even posting that eventhough you really don't have to, I for one appreciate anything you are able to pass on and also thanks to the park for even taking the time to do so with this going on. (Robb I think I can understand your frustration with this thread).

 

I won't speculate as to the what/how/why this happened because I simply DON"T KNOW and to sit here and say "it happened because of this" and "I think this thing is what went wrong" when I really have no clue would be a waste of everyone's time, I will be happy to wait for the facts to come out about this instead of making up a bunch of useless crap. The only other thing I will say about this is the pics gave me the chills and obviously the safety systems in place did their job and for that I have to say thank you Intamin! I can only imagine what kind of horrible noise this must have made but it's very good that no one was seriously hurt.

 

Ok I'm done.

[mike robinson]

Agreed. Looks like a pretty good mechanical failure and yet everyone was OK. Don't think you can ask for much more.

[KrautWithAltitude]

No matter how much ballyhoo here on TPR - it won´t make much of a difference. At least, that´s my opinion. Just compare the number of TPR members/users to that of park visitors wordwide. Like 90% of people who go to amusement parks have probably no idea about TPR and similar www resident clubs. No one should be seriously nervous about all that idle talk of everybody. Not to be confused with newspaper or tv broadcast of course, that could do a lot of damage since it makes a lot of people believe in whatever media people see fit. Internetdiscussions can´t do a lot of damage, since those who KNOW dont TALK and vice versa. All that could possibly happen would be that 1% of all roller coaster riders might become a little nervous about - say - Intamin rides To be frank, thats ridiculous - no one needs roller coasters for everyday purposes, so any unsafe products would be ruled out by market soon. Not to mention by TÜV, lawsuits, park reputation, tv reports and whatnot. So go ahead and discuss, all those fake theories won´t last anyway. People in the amusement business know about the relevance of web community activities. Since hospitality is the key to it all, everybody is welcome and especially frequent guests like TPR folks. But remember that enthusiast clubs might make just 1% of the volume needed to operate a park or roller coaster. Their relevance is not so much on the amusement business but on the coaster nut scene. It´s fun, it´s cool, but it is not the whole thing. So if I was a park owner, I wouldn´t give too much of a damn about the current gossip. It changes every time. If I was head of Intamin, I´d reckon the same. And one sad truth: Accidents make coasters safer, just as they make cars safer. This has always happened and will always happen. There are so many people´s opinions on the creation of one single amusement ride, if it wasn´t "perfectly" safe it would never make it on the market, and the parks do everything they can to stay out of the headlines. It is business, for christs sake, it is not about cheap chinese cars for people who cant afford cars. At least I hope so

[Philrad71]

Sorry to hear about this, but glad no one was seriously hurt and the safety mechanisms seemed to have functioned properly.

 

But, I'm really surprised that some would rather give opinions about their supposed knowledge in coaster safety and technology, yet no one seems to give a crap about about the parks upcoming new ride: Holly's Wilde Fahrt? I am more excited to see what becomes of this ride and hope that there will be some picture updates as the ride is built!

 

Isn't this something everyone should be thrilled about? A coaster called Holly's Wilde Fahrt? How cool is that? Yes, it sounds silly and something that should make some of the teens laugh, but I figured injecting some immature humor into this thread might be a good thing at this point. Isn't the point of this site to have fun and to enjoy just being goofy coaster enthusiasts?

 

The ride broke down, no one was killed and I am very glad for that...but, I am just going to let the park (and the mods) communicate the updated info with us as they see fit...without adding rants and speculations. I'm not an engineer (oh, wait I am!). Make that...I'm not a COASTER engineer and would have no idea what I was talking about even if I tried to speculate - I am sure I would only make myself look like a fool!

[sixflagsguy5]

So what Holiday Park/ Robb is saying is that the ride didn't technically derail, because it was still in contact with the track as designed. I'm very happy to hear that because it's frustrating hearing people bash Intamin. I can't think of a single incident where someone was seriously injured on one of their rides due solely to a poor design. The accidents that have occurred besides this one were not because of a design failure and have never proven to be the fault of Intamin. People always mention that B&M is flawless and has no accidents and I think this comes from people being biased towards their rides. I like all coasters- 5 feet tall, 400 feet tall, 7 inversions, no inversions. To me they're all fun to ride and that's the purpose of riding them. Just because a ride valleyed doesn't mean you need to go pull out the B&M/ Intamin safety comparison.

[Six Flags Enthuseast]

I would also assume they have been reading this thread because it was mentioned to me that "...it is very dangerous when one gets lost in speculations and assumptions.." and I would take that as a message to some of you that not only do Elissa and I get frustrated with some of the fabricated details some of our members choose to post, but the industry professionals do as well.

 

I would kindly ask that some of you would have a bit more respect towards Elissa and I and know that we working to bring you ACTUAL, REAL INFORMATION about the incident.

 

"Now it is very important to gather the facts..."

 

I think that is the important thing to remember.

 

I agree with both of you. Sure, we're a community of enthusiasts, and it can normally be expected of some of us to 'rumor' a little bit, but to make judgements, assumptions, and blames, especially in light of an accident (big or small), is not acceptable.

[jarmor]

I know, in my opinion, that holiday park has a stronger backbone to not let what people are speculating about on a message board get to them. In that case carowinds and islands of adventure (along with j.k. rowlings) would be crying their eyes out ! I think they would kinda figure the news media outlets were gonna take the store and run with it. I really dont think they have that much of a problem with it being discussed but it does give them a chance to get things straight. I mean paula from holiday world has an account here and she, when needs be, sets the record straight and its over and done. Im just glad no one died and hope the track wasnt destroyedas a result of the train stopping on it.

[robbalvey]

Not to be confused with newspaper or tv broadcast of course, that could do a lot of damage since it makes a lot of people believe in whatever media people see fit. Internetdiscussions can´t do a lot of damage, since those who KNOW dont TALK and vice versa.

Thank you Norman! I appreciate someone with your industry experience actually weeding through the crap that sometimes can get posted and still taking the time to respond! To be fair though, I am contacted by media all the time. And when you see links to Theme Park Review appear on CNN, Los Angeles Times, etc, I want to ensure that in the off chance someone clicks those links, the discussion they will find is mature banter within the group not a bunch of adults acting like children.

 

since those who KNOW dont TALK and vice versa.

Yep. I hear you loud and clear!

 

All that could possibly happen would be that 1% of all roller coaster riders might become a little nervous about - say - Intamin rides To be frank, thats ridiculous - no one needs roller coasters for everyday purposes, so any unsafe products would be ruled out by market soon. Not to mention by TÜV, lawsuits, park reputation, tv reports and whatnot.

1 vote for the most intelligent statement in this thread so far!

 

People in the amusement business know about the relevance of web community activities.

And this is one of my daily challenges. Most people in the amusement business look at web communities as a total joke due mainly in part by the type of discussion that has carried on for the past few pages. I will say though that the one common thread I hear from industry professionals is how well moderated we keep the forum "free from crap" and that for the most part, you can actually read our forum without getting frustrated or annoyed. I take that as a personal compliment. And if means I have to delete crap posts or ban crap posters to keep the quality to a level where professionals in this business will go the extra mile for us, and then in turn I can deliver that extra mile back to our non-crap posters, it's what I'm going to continue to do!

 

Theme Park Review has more amusement industry members reading *and* actually posting to this site than ANY OTHER web forum out there. And those members mean a lot more to me than someone who will continue arguing over nonesense.

 

Since hospitality is the key to it all, everybody is welcome and especially frequent guests like TPR folks. But remember that enthusiast clubs might make just 1% of the volume needed to operate a park or roller coaster. Their relevance is not so much on the amusement business but on the coaster nut scene. It´s fun, it´s cool, but it is not the whole thing. So if I was a park owner, I wouldn´t give too much of a damn about the current gossip.

Agreed! Thank you Norman! But it still annoying for anyone to have to read. I'm currently working with Intamin right now (as well as many other ride manufacturers) and the last thing I want them to have to read is a bunch of "made up nonesense" about their company on a public forum which is often quoted on CNN or other news outlets.

 

And one sad truth: Accidents make coasters safer, just as they make cars safer. This has always happened and will always happen. There are so many people´s opinions on the creation of one single amusement ride, if it wasn´t "perfectly" safe it would never make it on the market, and the parks do everything they can to stay out of the headlines. It is business, for christs sake, it is not about cheap chinese cars for people who cant afford cars. At least I hope so

 

Again, such great input from someone who actually works in this business. Norman, I cannot thank you enough for coming here, having the patience to read through this thread, and for posting this. I just hope other people will also appreciate it and listen.

 

As soon as we have updated information from Holiday Park, Intamin, or any additional news stories regarding the accident we will be sure to post them!

 

--Robb

Edited May 1, 2010 by robbalvey

[rider-x]

Its funny how many roller coaster enthusiasts seem to know EVERYTHING about the inner workings of rides, safety, operations etc. I love roller coasters and parks however the last thing I would ever do is try to spout off random theories to people, especially on this site where there are people in the business who will forget more than I will ever know.

BTW great job moderating Robb. Keep it up.

[KrautWithAltitude]

Thank you Norman! I appreciate someone with your industry experience actually weeding through the crap that sometimes can get posted and still taking the time to respond! To be fair though, I am contacted by media all the time. And when you see links to Theme Park Review appear on CNN, Los Angeles Times, etc, I want to ensure that in the off chance someone clicks those links, the discussion they will find is mature banter within the group not a bunch of adults acting like children.

 

Well, I actually didn´t weed through all of it. (Check out my new sig - swell, eh? ) But sometimes I find myself speculating, and it´s tempting to engage into the discussion on a public forum, just for the fun of it. And sometimes I do so, and everytime I find myself ashamed of it, because I posted before I took any research... Oh well, millions of people seem to do not much else nowadays. And this must be a neverending task for you. I guess I couldn´t take it, I´d become the most hated admin ever. But, I don´t bother to So thanks for keeping up the flame, someone has to do it and I couldn´t think of a more appropiate team than you and Elissa and all those "inner circle" members and people who help you keeping the train rolling - it´s to late to stop anyway, isn´t it All the positive feedback you get from all the companies/people shows you have done a lot of good in the last years. As said, there has to be a top-shelf residence for everything on the internet, and only by this standard the fun and motivation for the makers will be long-term.

 

And this is one of my daily challenges. Most people in the amusement business look at web communities as a total joke due mainly in part by the type of discussion that has carried on for the past few pages. I will say though that the one common thread I hear from industry professionals is how well moderated we keep the forum "free from crap" and that for the most part, you can actually read our forum without getting frustrated or annoyed. I take that as a personal compliment. And if means I have to delete crap posts or ban crap posters to keep the quality to a level where professionals in this business will go the extra mile for us, and then in turn I can deliver that extra mile back to our non-crap posters, it's what I'm going to continue to do!

 

Theme Park Review has more amusement industry members reading *and* actually posting to this site than ANY OTHER web forum out there. And those members mean a lot more to me than someone who will continue arguing over nonesense.

 

If you stick to high quality you can´t go wrong. Of course public forums are not the place for high quality discussions, just because of the nature of it. (edit: Well there are good discussions, but almost never real expertise which could raise eyebrows) But I see TPR constantly changing from an enthusiast residence to a more professional outfit, TPR becoming kind of a brand name. If I was a park owner, I´d go that extra mile for you, and not only because of the money (do TPR members spend more money on their park visits than regular guests? I don´t know) but also because I might expect positive publicity from a group of people who don´t mess up my properties and will come back forever if I keep them entertained. But to be honest, I´d let you have all the beer and food you want, as long as it would pay off in the future. Not one bite more

 

See you on Octoberfest!

[Fallen Heretic]

First time back on TPR for ages, and I just wanna say first that some people need to get out to the bar more. Anyway...

 

Incidents are always unfortunate, but Im really impressed actually. A failure like that on a ride with those speeds and forces, with a safe stop, no real derailment and no proper injuries? Says good things about the safety of the ride in my opinion.

[ansley]

This is why B&M is my favorite coaster company! Regardless of whose fault it is, this should have NEVER happened!

 

So even if Intamin had nothing to do with it, you're still comparing manufacturers? Holiday Park has had this coaster for 9 years, and Intamin's liability for the ride has LONG since past. It's practically the same thing with Xcelerator, only KBF has had that for 8 years. Is it Ron Toomer's (or Arrow's) fault that Magnum slipped through the breaks and "crashed" in 2007? Was it Schwarzkopf's fault when Mindbender killed three people? The answer to all those is a resounding "no." Once the park gets a coaster in operation, it's THEIR responsibility to maintain the ride.

 

 

Well, yes....it was partially Schwarzkopf's fault in the Mindbender accident. Maybe you should get your facts straight. The accident happen approx. 6 months after opening. The company was found partially at fault for lack of providing proper maintenance procedures, or something like that, to the park. The accident pretty much bankrupted the company because they were found to be partially at fault.

 

In general, in this thread, I'm apalled at the lack of knowledge being spewed. At least some of you actually say things like "pardon my ignorance" becuase you don't understand the physics of the coasters, or the design of the trains, but some of the posts are down right foolish or pure speculation.

 

It is quote obvious from the photos that an entire rear truck assembly came off of a car in the middle of the train, and the train *probably* dragged on the track causing it to stop. Unfortunately this is not the first time this has happen on a coaster. Beyond that I would say you can't assume much until (or if) more details are released to the public.

 

Regards,

Ted

[ansley]

^ I really just wanted to delete your post since it's such an obvious Anti-Intamin rant and flame bait.

 

B&M's that are 20 years old and have no problems are associated with both how the ride is maintained, and who originally built the equipment.

 

 

There is only one B&M that is 20 years old, Iron Wolf.

[Ledgy]

I have been in direct contact with Holiday Park since the incident yesterday. They have asked me to post the following information:

 

"Now it is very important to gather the facts. We are working together with TÜV-Süd and Intamin on finding the cause of the defective axle. One car of the seven-car-train was affected by the axle. That caused the stop. The train itself is on the track, completely. Meaning, the train did not derail.

 

No one was injured. Eight passengers mentioned dizziness and bruises.

 

At this point a technical failure caused the stop of the coaster train.

 

Thanks again for the support. --Rudi ”

 

I would also assume they have been reading this thread because it was mentioned to me that "...it is very dangerous when one gets lost in speculations and assumptions.." and I would take that as a message to some of you that not only do Elissa and I get frustrated with some of the fabricated details some of our members choose to post, but the industry professionals do as well. Before you post, think about who's going to read what you're writing, and how it reflects not only on you personally, but on the website as a whole.

 

I really just want to point out that while some people in this thread have chosen to make up facts and bicker back and forth to prove points that aren't even directly related to the accident, I am actually the one speaking directly with the parks and ride manufacturers to get you all the ACTUAL STORY ON WHAT IS HAPPENING with the ride.

 

I would kindly ask that some of you would have a bit more respect towards Elissa and I and know that we working to bring you ACTUAL, REAL INFORMATION about the incident. And if the reason why it would seem that we get a little frustrated and annoyed at time is because maybe...just maybe we actually have a little more in depth information due to our relationships in the amusement business, and not all the time we are able to fully communicate that information.

 

Guys, give us the credit we deserve for going the extra mile for you all and going to the source for information. I don't think we are asking for too much in this case. While some of you may disagree with us, fine, but we actually DO know what we are talking about.

 

I really send thanks to Holiday Park for communicating directly with us. I'm sure they have a lot of other things to worry about at the moment, but they are willing to give us as many details as possible. I'm sure this is a very difficult time for them and right now we should be trying to give them our support. I would hope this is something that everyone who reads this website would be able to agree on.

 

--Robb "Clearly the parks put trust in us and I'm asking you all to do the same." Alvey

 

Want to say thanks for posting this to us, Robb. And many thanks to the park to share with us this direct information!!! Hope they´ll find out what happended soon and can open the ride again. Especially because the timing - looking forward to the big summer season - isn´t the best for them! Expedition GeForce is the greatest major ride of the park... they do have other great rides, but it´s defenitively a ride many visitors looking forward to ride. - Me too

 

Maybe we´ll hear what happened...

[CorkscrewFoley]

Thanks for keeping us informed, Robb.

 

As for the B&M/Intamin comparison, IMHO, it's getting old fast. It's just like anyone who's a fan of Intamin, and have to hear that same unfunny joke about their safety record...

[Voyager]

....I just wanna say first that some people need to get out to the bar more.

....and this gets my vote for the most intelligent statement of the thread. After many, many rides at HW today, I'm off to the fridge for a beer! -Mike

[kennywood_racer]

If some of you want believe that Intamin rides aren't as safe than don't ride. Shorter lines for the rest of us.

 

Jamie-The only beef I have with Intamin is my fat-Miller

[vuurvogel]

I know I am not supposed to place internet links yet, but I have found a video-interview with Rudi Mallasch that was not yet posted here . Maybe one of the moderators can help replacing the link for the real video.

 

http://www.rnf.de/videoportal/sendung/unfall_achterbahn_im_holidaypark

 

'quick' translation

 

There were 26 people in the train with no major injuries. 8 people said they had some bruises. The technical department of the park and TüV-sud are inspecting the coaster. There is no cause of the incident yet, but one of the coaches lost its tracking. In october last year the coaster has been closed for over 3 weeks. Now, it will not operate until the TüV will release it again.

[Tmcdllr]

Wow, I just watched a POV of this ride and I see why this coaster is so highly rated, it really looks like a lot of fun.