Holiday Park Discussion Thread

[iplf]

What is holding the car on at that point? Is it simply staying in place from being connected to the rest of the train?

I'm wondering about this as well. If it's just from being connected to the rest of the train, I think it's more a matter of luck that those cars didn't "crash". If not, then I guess this actually proves that the safety systems are doing their job.

[SharkTums]

Intamin > Togo

[kidcoaster 2]

Excuse my ignorance as I have never been on GeForce. But I am wondering what is holding the train where it was at. Are there some kind of breaks on that park of the track, or could it have been the way the car rested holding it there? I figure they would secure the train for the evacuation but was trying to figure out how the train would not roll back before the safety crew got to them.

 

Either way great to see no one was seriously hurt.

 

Thanks

Edited April 29, 2010 by kidcoaster 2

[SFGAm Shock Wave]

^ My guess is something in the "problem area" is lodged in the track. They probably used additional devices to secure the train before evacuating, since there are no brakes anywhere during the ride that are capable of holding a train in place.

[kidcoaster 2]

^ My guess is something in the "problem area" is lodged in the track. They probably used additional devices to secure the train before evacuating, since there are no brakes anywhere during the ride that are capable of holding a train in place.

 

I thought it was something like that...

[RCoasterny]

Good thing it was in the middle of the train, not at the front or the back! *cough* Mindbender *cough*. Don't get me started on the discussion how this kind of failure on an Arrow / Vekoma coaster would be less castrophic compared to an Intamin, B/M, Gertslauer, Premier, and a Mack coaster.

[AndCamSS]

This is reminding me of the accident on Demon at SFGAm way back in 1997? Of course im only basing that on these two not so great photos. It also reminds me a little bit of the Wild Thing accident at Valleyfair with the car leaning over to the side.

[robbalvey]

Don't get me started on the discussion how this kind of failure on an Arrow / Vekoma coaster would be less castrophic compared to an Intamin, B/M, Gertslauer, Premier, and a Mack coaster.

Well, to be fair, I would think that the similar accident on Morey's Piers Boomerang which sent people to the hospital in serious condition a few years back was MORE catastrophic that this, and that was a Vekoma ride using an Arrow train.

 

But really, an accident of this nature happens SO INFREQUENTLY I would say that any coaster manufacturer runs the same risk because after they turn the ride over to the park, it's up to the park to make sure that equipment is running in top form and does the preventative maintenance to keep incidents like these from happening.

 

--Robb

Edited April 29, 2010 by robbalvey

[Skycoastin Steve]

My only guess is something wasn't maintained in the wheel assembly/axle area, and given that ride's extreme forces (mostly on the upstops, I would presume), an unmaintained wheel assembly would certainly result in an incident like this. That guess is really only based on other derailing incidents in the past, as they all seem to have the common denominator of poor train maintenance. Thankfully everyone made it out relatively unharmed.

[robbalvey]

My only guess is something wasn't maintained in the wheel assembly/axle area, and given that ride's extreme forces (mostly on the upstops, I would presume), an unmaintained wheel assembly would certainly result in an incident like this. That guess is really only based on other derailing incidents in the past, as they all seem to have the common denominator of poor train maintenance. Thankfully everyone made it out relatively unharmed.

I would say this is a very fair assessment even with the lack of information we have, and given your experience working at parks, I'm glad you posted this and it's certainly an opinion I'd listen to.

 

--Robb

[darkon]

The before mentioned Bild-Zeitung has posted a new report with two pictures on its webpage.

 

http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/leserreporter/aktuell/nachrichten/2010/04/29/achterbahn-entgleist/in-holiday-park-hassloch.html

 

The interessting part (roughly translated):

What happend?

 

Rudi Mallasch (43) from HolidayPark: "Waggon 4 has lost it´s tracking. Thereby the ride stopped. At no time were any passengers in mortal danger."

[AllenA07]

It really looks like the back of the train just popped off. Even though the park says that nobody was in any mortal danger, I for one would not have been a happy camper if I were in that car.

[haiderodes]

^^Looking at those photos wouldn't it seem that whatever happened, happened closer to the bottom of the hill and the train kinda bunched up as it reached that point? When considering physics, wouldnt there have been more destruction and injuries if it was a sudden jam/decceleration? I'm thinking it was a gradual, albeit abrupt stoppage.

[robbalvey]

Even though the park says that nobody was in any mortal danger, I for one would not have been a happy camper if I were in that car.

Trust me, you would be a MUCH happier camper in this GeForce situation than in this one:

 

 

I know it's been posted already, but why do people always want to make MORE out of an incident than what happened?

 

I think it's important to note that it would appear that the safety systems put into place by the engineers actually WORKED in this case. The train didn't come apart, no restraints popped open, and no one was seriously injured.

 

Let's give some credit where it's due and look at what DID happen, rather than focusing on the "would COULD have happened."

 

^^Looking at those photos wouldn't it seem that whatever happened, happened closer to the bottom of the hill and the train kinda bunched up as it reached that point? When considering physics, wouldnt there have been more destruction and injuries if it was a sudden jam/decceleration? I'm thinking it was a gradual, albeit abrupt stoppage.

 

My thoughts exactly, but I'm not an engineer or a ride manufacturer so I don't know for sure. I/We can only speculate based on what limited (or in most cases zero) knowledge of the actual engineering of these types of machines.

 

--Robb

Edited April 29, 2010 by robbalvey

[Creapiano]

Holy Holy Holy Crap! this could be a horrible accident glad there was no reported serious injury.,, im scared to ride I305 now expecially the twisty bits

[AllenA07]

^^Oh I agree that I would have been much happier in this situation, I was just saying that I'm pretty sure had I been in that car I would have been needing a change of pants afterwards.

 

I'm actually pretty impressed here with Intamin. The ride suffered a major malfunction, and the safety systems did just what they're designed to do, not to mention the fact that the entire train did not come off the track. Everything seemed to work correctly in a situation where it could have been much worse.

[Steelinwood]

This is why B&M is my favorite coaster company! Regardless of whose fault it is, this should have NEVER happened!

[SharkTums]

^^Yes.

 

^Have fun riding the same stuff over and over again.

[Lamoure]

That's a pitty for the little park Secound incident on "ExpGeF". That will be expensive !!

 

I hope they can survive against the other german themeparks, which built a new attractions every year..

[gisco]

Why do most people assume poor maintenance by the park? They could have been doing everything by the book and some part on the train just failed. Maybe we should wait to see what the problem is before placing blame.

[AllenA07]

There are a thousand reasons why that could have happened. It could have been the fault of Intamin, the park, a wayward bird or any number of things. Depending on what caused this it could just as easily happen on a B&M or any other ride.

[Skycoastin Steve]

This is why B&M is my favorite coaster company! Regardless of whose fault it is, this should have NEVER happened!

 

So even if Intamin had nothing to do with it, you're still comparing manufacturers? Holiday Park has had this coaster for 9 years, and Intamin's liability for the ride has LONG since past. It's practically the same thing with Xcelerator, only KBF has had that for 8 years. Is it Ron Toomer's (or Arrow's) fault that Magnum slipped through the breaks and "crashed" in 2007? Was it Schwarzkopf's fault when Mindbender killed three people? The answer to all those is a resounding "no." Once the park gets a coaster in operation, it's THEIR responsibility to maintain the ride.

[ginzo]

Why do most people assume poor maintenance by the park?

 

Presumably original trains on a 9-year-old ride with high forces. Pretty big coaster to maintain for a park of this size. Similar accidents have been the result of poor maintenance. Park had an incident on this same ride last year. Lots of parks, even Disney, have been known to skimp on maintenance. Etc.

 

Obviously, nobody knows the real story yet, but I personally would not be surprised if it came down to iffy maintenance practices.

[robbalvey]

Why do most people assume poor maintenance by the park?

 

Presumably original trains on a 9-year-old ride with high forces. Pretty big coaster to maintain for a park of this size. Similar accidents have been the result of poor maintenance. Park had an incident on this same ride last year. Lots of parks, even Disney, have been known to skimp on maintenance. Etc.

I think it's easier, and probably make more sense, for people to make a quick judgement on poor maintenance than it does to outright blame the ride manufacturer for both reasons that Joe and Steve brought up in their posts.

 

But Bob is right, all we can do is speculate based on little to no personal knowledge of such machines or park's practices until some official report comes out.

 

At least so far the speculation in this thread has been a lot less headache inducing than the Xcelerator thread!

 

--Robb

[Emiroo]

Dumb question: How many trains does EGF have/typically run? I wonder if there was another train on the course at the time of the incident. And of course if there was, put yet another checkmark in the "Safety Systems Worked Flawlessly" category.