Support Joyland

[snuggles]

^Shun the non-believer! I'm not trying to detest your opinion, but when I called a number, they were calm and cool about it, and actually seemed to care. Telling them what you think is one of the most likely ways to get them to change their mind, or change sides at least. Its a fairly big issue they don't get many calls about, and i'm sure it was a nice break from crazy complaints they get.

[Shavethewhales]

^^For Pete's sake, how many posts like this do we need to see? Go back over this topic and you'll see we've already covered this. Citizens deserve a right to speak out when their government screws up, it's called democracy.

 

And no, the park is not a lost cause. Remember how the new owners want to put $40 million into the place? That expansion alone would make the place twice the size of WWW. So everyone

please stop giving us that, "Oh no, the park's in trouble: ABANDON SHIP!" crap, cause it doesn't always need to be that way.

 

The park might make it and it might not, but obviously it's worth it to many people to give it a good fight.

[ghost007jas]

^ Erm ARE you a citizen? I can understand if you will be directly affected by this, but for God's sakes does it really matter if a park 2,000 miles away from you shuts down?

 

On a side note I believe we have seen enough "Call the politicians save Joyland!" posts in this thread as well...

[snuggles]

^Well, are you a citizen? He isn't, but he lives something like 150 miles away. You live halfway across the country, so you just pretty much contradicted yourself.

[Shavethewhales]

^ Erm ARE you a citizen? I can understand if you will be directly affected by this, but for God's sakes does it really matter if a park 2,000 miles away from you shuts down?

 

On a side note I believe we have seen enough "Call the politicians save Joyland!" posts in this thread as well...

 

I don't live in Wichita itself, but I am (or would be) a Joyland patron, so yeah, this will affect me directly - but not as directly as it will the citizens of Wichita, whom are being silently wronged by the city of Wichita's actions with this park.

 

Look, to settle things out, no one is trying to be a fanatic who just wants to stir up trouble for a dying park. That fact of the matter is that the publicly-elected officials of Wichita are doing things that they aren't supposed to, and it's the citizens that are paying the price. One of the main reasons Joyland is in the trouble it's currently in is because of the actions of the city; if it hadn't been for those actions, the park would have worked its way out of the rest of its troubles by now and would likely be in the middle of that $40 million dollar expansion.

 

So, yeah, no one should be an idiot about all this - including the Wichita officials and citizens.

[ghost007jas]

I heard this somewhere, but I can not recall where at the moment.

 

While their taxes (was it property taxes?) may rise, so will their property value. So if they survive this their land will be worth that much more should they decided to sell.

[snuggles]

Property values rising in southeast wichita?

[chris70]

Its vital that the citizens speak out , but its equally important for coaster enthusiast's to call also.It will give them a better understanding of the reach of their actions.It might also give them an understanding of the

value of the parks rollercoaster and other classic rides.

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Its vital that the citizens speak out , but its equally important for coaster enthusiast's to call also.It will give them a better understanding of the reach of their actions.It might also give them an understanding of the

value of the parks rollercoaster and other classic rides.

 

Having been at the grand opening of Wild West World last Saturday, I drove down Hillside to have a look at Joyland myself.

 

The park is done. Finished. No more. Rides are being dismantled, the midway has weeds and cracks everywhere the dark ride building looks as though it will cave in any moment, and the coaster will never run again. The Coaster is deteriorating by the hour. Given that it couldn't pass an inspection last year (and nothing further has really been done to it to get it in running condition), it's done for. The biggest loss isn't the ride itself, but the last-of-their-type retro PTC trains with fixed lapbars.

 

The only hope that ride had was if Thomas Etheredge could have worked out a deal with the Nelsons to buy and move it to Wild West World.

 

There is no more "Save Joyland". Joyland really should have closed in 1999 when the Nelsons leased the park to David Rohr. It has been one corrupt and deteriorating place ever since. Like watching someone die slowly from Cancer.

 

-Mark

[chris70]

Oh ye of little faith. Joyland will rise again. The rides are being dismantled and stored on site , basically closing up the park.The coaster ran last year.the only reason the inspector failed it was because he hoped to get the repair work!Joyland would be in much better shape if the Nelsons would have put money into it.Instead they have been running it into the ground since around 1960. I too went to Wild West World and can honestly say that it will never have the same appeal as Joyland. The atmosphere and feel of the park will never come close. They are different entities.Joyland offers a glimpse into the past history of themeparks. support Joyland at www.explorer7004.com

[snuggles]

The park is done. Finished. No more. Rides are being dismantled, the midway has weeds and cracks everywhere the dark ride building looks as though it will cave in any moment, and the coaster will never run again. The Coaster is deteriorating by the hour. Given that it couldn't pass an inspection last year (and nothing further has really been done to it to get it in running condition), it's done for. The biggest loss isn't the ride itself, but the last-of-their-type retro PTC trains with fixed lapbars.

 

There is no more "Save Joyland". Joyland really should have closed in 1999 when the Nelsons leased the park to David Rohr. It has been one corrupt and deteriorating place ever since. Like watching someone die slowly from Cancer.

 

-Mark

Are you kidding? Looks can be deceiving. Rides are being stored to prevent weathering. The midway is really old, cracks and weeds are normal for any midway. The darkride building isn't about to collapse any minute, it is perfectly safe to go into. The coaster was worked on so much since its last inspection. If they hadn't gotten crap from the city, I assure you, the coaster would be running. On a ticket I have, it says "hours from September 5th, to December 31st- TBD" If they would have opened February 24th like they wanted, the coaster probably would have run. 1999 to 2003 and half of 2004 were probably the best years ever for the park. New paint everywhere, restoration, the whole deal. Most of that happened in the 2000-2002 seasons, but it was great for the park. Do some research before you go assuming things. The coaster deteriorating by the hour? heh. Like I said, looks can be deceiving.

[chris70]

It seems that most of the repairs took place underDavid Rohr and then

Michael and Robert.I wonder why the Nelsons let it go downhill. Does anyone know why the swimming pool was closed?

[Mark Rosenzweig]

The bottom line is that even if Joyland did reopen....again.....it would close after a year or two. It is inevitable. Without the city's support, and with Joyland's less than favorable location on the southeast side of town, and with Wild West World opening (and sure to steal lots, if not all of Joyland's group picnic business which is probably all that kept the place open in recent years anyway), the place is done for.

 

Mind you, this is not what I personally want to see, I'm just being a realist here. It's kind of similar to what Conneaut Lake goes through every year, just with differing details leading to the ultimate circumstance- that being the place is on life support year to year, and while it is great to have to open, it simply cannot support itself as a business.

 

If Joyland were a flourishing business, do you really think the Nelsons would have let the place go to crap and then lease it out to corrupt operators? Have any of you heard of what the most recent Joyland management team did to Boblo Island? From the beginning, they wanted Joyland to be a strip mall with dollar stores, check cashing outlets, and pawn shops.

 

-Mark

[Shavethewhales]

^That really is a possibility, but the best we can do is hope they come through with that $40 million dollar revitalization/expansion package. I don't really think they want to turn the entire place into a strip mall though, based on the fact that they spent so much money and effort already on restoring the park.

 

I dunno, if it re-opened in it's current state, or even with some more refurbishment, it might indeed be doomed to close again (or maybe not), but if they pull through with this lawsuit, and get the City and Nelsons off their backs, I can easily see that $40 million expansion coming within the next few years. With that kind of investment, I think most of their problems would be solved.

 

So, eh - I say there's still a good amount of hope all around, even if the situation is sketchy.

[Mark Rosenzweig]

I dunno, if it re-opened in it's current state, or even with some more refurbishment, it might indeed be doomed to close again (or maybe not), but if they pull through with this lawsuit, and get the City and Nelsons off their backs, I can easily see that $40 million expansion coming within the next few years. With that kind of investment, I think most of their problems would be solved.

 

Again, using reality, how can *anyone* justify a $40 million expansion to a failing park in the wrong area of town when it cost $30 million to build all of Wild West World?!? While Wichita has grown in recent years, it is in no way a market that will be able to fully support three parks (if you want to count All Star East on Webb).

 

Bottom line is this- Joyland lacks the location (with no easy access off the interstate like Wild West World for example), and its reputation is poor at best amongst the city (blame whoever you want for that- the city, or general word of mouth).

 

Conneaut is barely alive thanks to its summer lakeside resort setting- people are there already. Lakeside in Denver is alive thanks to a realistic management who put money into general upkeep but don't blab all over the media about "40 million dollar expansions". Their location right off I-70 helps too.

 

I want to be proven wrong here, but I just can't see Joyland ever operating full time again as it did a few years back. Remember David Rohr? Remember how he spent 30g's painting the coaster, but somehow chose or simply could not keep up with the bills? And now you have these corrupt guys who find the only way to keep the place moderatly profitable is to keep it open all hours of the night with hardly a family crowd in the park- mostly drunk too. Great marketing plan, and great plan to build my confidence in the place as a successful enterprise.

 

-Mark

[chris70]

There you go again talking without knowing all the facts.First of all the back and forth is getting old , so this is the last I'll say in all this.any further comments from me will be about the park(updates , hope for future etc).

Michael and Robert are not corrupt! The parties gave another avenue for the park.My wife and I could take the kids during the day and enjoy the park at night as adults.The noise complaints were unfounded and unmeasured. The first few nights we drove around and could barely hear the noise.Highway on the west side school on the north , street and empty field on the west.The houses are across the canal and there is a lot of evergreen trees wich dampen the sound.You would have to be out in your yard trying really hard to hear it.Then theres the fact that he offered to move the parties inside but wasn't allowed to because the old skating rink isn't "zoned properly".So they have a 70000 sqr ft warehouse.They put more life into Joyland than anyone has in the past years!

[snuggles]

I sent an e-mail back, and heres what I got back. I asked what the building in the parking lot was, and where they are going to court at.

 

"We intend to complete the sale with the Nelsons. What the Nelsons do we can't control, but we can and will prove damages...the trial will be in federal court in Tampa, Florida. Yes it was a skating rink...there was a fire and it shut down, we tried to reopen the skating rink, but the city denied it based on current zoning. The park had not operated the rink for more than 5 years so Joyland has lost the right to ever do it again....unless the city ok's it, which they did not. City has been so helpful, not!!! "

[hemmy]

I went to Wild West World today, and Wichita could definitely use something worth while, because that trip made me depressed.

 

I might post a mini-Photo TR later

[Mark Rosenzweig]

I went to Wild West World today, and Wichita could definitely use something worth while, because that trip made me depressed.

 

I might post a mini-Photo TR later

 

If you don't have time for a Photo TR, please post your comments on what you thought of the park- operations, ride selection, atmosphere, entertainment, etc. Just curious.

 

-Mark

[coasterdude5]

If they can pull out of this, great, if not, it looks to be another park in the latest trend of closing smaller "classic" parks. I'm almost glad these guys didn't get control of Libertyland, because I wouldn't have wanted it to die like this park is. The Nelsons bear a strong resemblance to Mid South Fair, Inc. (the minds behind the closure of Libertyland).

 

I wish them the best of luck in court.

[snuggles]

The support Joyland website now hosts a photo gallery. See it here.

Hopefully more pictures can be added soon.. Bookmark the site guys!

I just figured something out. The park went from wonderfully maintained (so my grandparents and their friends say) then, for a few years after the Nelson's took over, it turned crappier over the years. In the mid 70's, it was suggested they close the coaster because of the condition. It probably wasn't WG cyclone condition, but from what I've heard, it was bad. The nelsons kept it from there, and then in the 1990's things started getting better. In 2003/4 the nelsons pretty much went senile, and the park went down the drain.

[chris70]

In the updates section at www.explorer7004.com

I've posted some emails I received from Michael regarding the sound violation. It looks like they will have to settle.It also seems only one person is behind the complaint.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[spaceace12]

all it takes is one to ruin the fun and beliefs of many. I will leave the beliefs part out of it, but for example in television. If one person complains to the fcc because of soemthing minor, a station can be fined.

[snuggles]

In wichita, you are pretty much guilty until proven innocent. Lame stuff.

[snuggles]

This is for you people who don't want to take the time to read it all.

 

The good news is that you may not have to return to Kansas at all for this case. It will be entirely up to you, but please consider what we have learned in the past days.

 

1. The prosecutor offered this morning to recommend only a $100 fine, plus court costs, in exchange for your plea of guilty or no contest. This could be accomplished without your ever having to return to Wichita. As misdemeanor convictions go, this is hardly a heinous crime, and is not something that would harm one’s reputation or livelihood;

 

 

3. The complaining witness Justin Sax was present, along with an entourage of neighbors, complaining loudly about the many times he’s had to show up at court and all the work he has missed. He went so far as to confront me outside, as if we had some duty to compensate him, when he’s the one who’s so bent on this prosecution.

 

 

Although the complaining witness seems obnoxious from our perspective, it is possible that a judge might indulge his complaining if he is summoned to court again, and short of ordering restitution, or assessing special witness fees among the court costs charged to you, it could end up imposing a worse penalty than contemplated by the plea offer, if you were to be convicted. I don’t see the court ordering jail time (although the law allows the court to impose a six-month jail term), but a suspended six-month jail sentence with twelve-months of probation are more than a technical possibility if you were convicted. Any sentence would be stayed, put on hold, pending an appeal to the District Court, but such an appeal would be a different representation, and would require considerable attorney time, a substantially larger retainer, and more trips back to Wichita.

 

 

Absolutely amazing....now I know why the police had no evidence...they do not need it on noise complaints...GUILTY until proven innocent...God bless America. I keep waiting for a black hole to swallow up Wichita city hall...not even light can escape the hole. THAT WOULD BE POETIC JUSTICE!

 

It is becoming very clear I can't win this one. The reason the city is so determined is they need everything possible working against me, when we go to trial in the civil suit. If I plead guilty?...when you fill out applications etc. or have to answer the question...do you have a criminal record?...do I have to say yes? I assume the answer is yes. Pretty amazing I manage to live 44 years with no problems with the police or the courts...had to come to Wichita to learn I was a criminal.

 

Bottom line, how long before I need to decide what direction I want to go? I need to speak with Robert and counsel on our civil case before I can decide.

 

 

 

 

 

black hole swallowing wichita city hall