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Walt Disney World Epcot Discussion Thread

P. 115: Ratatouille Opening Oct. 1 - Confirmed!

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I don't think the prices are as big of a deal as the fans and enthusiasts make them out to be. WDW caters to upper middle class/higher income demographic and most of those people know what to expect price wise when they go. Getting a hot dog or beer at any pro sports stadium is about the same, if not a little more, than what it cost at WDW. And for major markets ticket prices are comparable as well. I'm looking at the Clippers website and a single ticket for lower bowl is a little over $100 and for that you're getting like 2 hours of ubiquitous entertainment. For that same price at Disney you are getting all the rides, parades, shows, fireworks, etc. Now granted WDW is a lot more expensive because the length of stay aspect, but I think most people realize its a vacation that they're going to do once every 5 years or so, so whatever.

 

In regards to doom & gloom that is the internet for you. There are a lot of people out there that don't really understand the way the economy works. Companies are going to charge what they can charge to maximize profits. Period. If someone doesn't understand that then they're going to have problems .

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Just because you don’t think it is good, it doesn’t mean the rest of the visiting majority agrees with your opinion. But I guess that’s the beauty of numbers... Everyone is entitled to their own opini

EPCOT is about one thing: making money for Disney. Does Guardians make money? *Glances at box office returns* Why, yes. Yes it does. Case closed.

I think “terrible” is a matter of perspective. Also understand that the person you’re debating this with has a long-proven admiration of Epcot in its classic form... Just look up Epcot’s 25th annivers

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I'm just going to put this here because I found it really sad that a cast member would be participating in all the complaining. At least I can speak from experience that this person does not represent the CMs as a whole. Just sort of shocked at the attitude. I think she needs to find a new occupation, or at least a new employer...

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^Er, bitching about your employer on social media is just plain dumb.

 

I've looked at this new policy and see no downside. It's a nice extra service for people who want to spring for it, and it doesn't affect other guests at all.

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This is what I don't get. Do people either:

 

a) honestly believe that features like this and the cabanas are being marketed to locals who live in the area with a car and annual passes?

 

or are they

 

b) just too stupid to understand that Walt Disney World is a "destination resort" and the majority of it's audience is coming from hundreds to thousands of miles away for a "trip of a lifetime" and these additional benefits are for them.

As someone who isn't...particularly thrilled with the cabanas, I see no issue with the express bus service. I want to say that Disney is trying to eat into the Uber and Lyft crowd with this service. I'd be willing to believe that people would choose to Uber or Lyft around the resort to not have to deal with waiting around for the buses - especially if the situation is the same as it was a few years ago, where you had to jump on a resort bus and THEN connect to a park bus to get to another park. That whole process could take over an hour!

 

And you're absolutely right about the locals vs tourists thing! When you've spent an obscene amount of money on your vacation, the last thing you want to worry about is logistics.

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I've looked at this new policy and see no downside. It's a nice extra service for people who want to spring for it, and it doesn't affect other guests at all.

This is what really bothers me, the people complaining don't seem to realize that this doesn't affect them negatively at all (It actually has a positive affect on them, as Robb mentioned earlier, with less people using the free system).

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I almost feel bad for Disney employees that don't make anything, but maybe they should, you know, threaten to disrupt the place by organizing together to make these demands? Or maybe she needs to think about trying to get a job elsewhere in the company that makes more money, even if it isn't as glamorous. That's kinda on them that they put ridiculous idealism ahead of their own lives, not me.

 

Disney, by design, isn't for poor people barely scraping by. What really upsets people like this cast member is the crushing reality that Disney is not intended for people of their economic status and never, ever was. The kind of introspection about themselves and their relationship to Disney is deeply uncomfortable, and they outright reject even the slightest bit of thought about it. It is much, much easier for them to construct a totally false reality with completely fake facts than confront the truth because their entire lives are about serving this company.

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I almost feel bad for Disney employees that don't make anything, but maybe they should, you know, threaten to disrupt the place by organizing together to make these demands? Or maybe she needs to think about trying to get a job elsewhere in the company that makes more money, even if it isn't as glamorous. That's kinda on them that they put ridiculous idealism ahead of their own lives, not me.

 

Disney, by design, isn't for poor people barely scraping by. What really upsets people like this cast member is the crushing reality that Disney is not intended for people of their economic status and never, ever was. The kind of introspection about themselves and their relationship to Disney is deeply uncomfortable, and they outright reject even the slightest bit of thought about it. It is much, much easier for them to construct a totally false reality with completely fake facts than confront the truth because their entire lives are about serving this company.

The thing is though, you CAN have a great career working for Disney or any of the other hospitality companies in Orlando. Thousands of people out here do and they live just fine. But it doesn't come easy, it's not a free ride, and someone with this sort of attitude is not going to make the cut. I know plenty of people who work at the parks, resorts, or in other hospitality venues in Orlando and they have nice houses or apartments, take vacations out of the country and live well-off lives. None of it was just handed to them though.

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So, do we actually know that Disney is putting more buses into circulation, or is the benefit of "less people using the regular system" speculative? It isn't hard to imagine the world where the number of people taking express busses doesn't relieve the stress of taking buses out of general pool.

 

I think the best argument against these things is that they remove the opening act of each park. It's a small (but I think significant) thing for a repeat visitor, but there's going to be some segment of the population whose first walk into one of the parks will be via an express bus. I think MK and AK especially have near perfect opening acts, and giving the opportunity to skip those is absolutely a cost. I'm not at all sure that cost outweighs the benefits, but I think it's disingenuous to pretend anyone with complaints is a lunatic.

 

EDIT on a bit of reflection: I also think this is different from the utilidoor tour. It's not just about breaking the "fourth wall" - it's about doing so for people who aren't specifically looking for that. If you sign up for the Keys to the Kingdom tour, you know exactly what you're getting. You are opting in to see how the sausage is made. If you take an express bus, the primary motivation is convenience; screwing with the show is a side effect that is some sort of negative effect on the experience. Again, I think net benefit wise these aren't RUINING DISNEY OMG but these arguments are valid, I think.

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I almost feel bad for Disney employees that don't make anything, but maybe they should, you know, threaten to disrupt the place by organizing together to make these demands? Or maybe she needs to think about trying to get a job elsewhere in the company that makes more money, even if it isn't as glamorous. That's kinda on them that they put ridiculous idealism ahead of their own lives, not me.

 

Disney, by design, isn't for poor people barely scraping by. What really upsets people like this cast member is the crushing reality that Disney is not intended for people of their economic status and never, ever was. The kind of introspection about themselves and their relationship to Disney is deeply uncomfortable, and they outright reject even the slightest bit of thought about it. It is much, much easier for them to construct a totally false reality with completely fake facts than confront the truth because their entire lives are about serving this company.

The thing is though, you CAN have a great career working for Disney or any of the other hospitality companies in Orlando. Thousands of people out here do and they live just fine. But it doesn't come easy, it's not a free ride, and someone with this sort of attitude is not going to make the cut. I know plenty of people who work at the parks, resorts, or in other hospitality venues in Orlando and they have nice houses or apartments, take vacations out of the country and live well-off lives. None of it was just handed to them though.

 

I take a lot of this talk from cast members who are mad as "I will only work in ride operations or live entertainment and I demand to be a manager and hold court with imagineers!" Walt needed people to sweep streets, scrub toilets, sell t-shirts, and make food too, but I almost never hear about how these specific people are looking to move around the company. They just want to do ops on Pirates of the Caribbean and get paid $20/hr to be "part of the magic".

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^^ Everything you just said is purely subjective per your point of view. None of your comments actually point to any real issue with this service being offered at all and does not impact anyone in the slightest.

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I almost feel bad for Disney employees that don't make anything, but maybe they should, you know, threaten to disrupt the place by organizing together to make these demands? Or maybe she needs to think about trying to get a job elsewhere in the company that makes more money, even if it isn't as glamorous. That's kinda on them that they put ridiculous idealism ahead of their own lives, not me.

 

Disney, by design, isn't for poor people barely scraping by. What really upsets people like this cast member is the crushing reality that Disney is not intended for people of their economic status and never, ever was. The kind of introspection about themselves and their relationship to Disney is deeply uncomfortable, and they outright reject even the slightest bit of thought about it. It is much, much easier for them to construct a totally false reality with completely fake facts than confront the truth because their entire lives are about serving this company.

The thing is though, you CAN have a great career working for Disney or any of the other hospitality companies in Orlando. Thousands of people out here do and they live just fine. But it doesn't come easy, it's not a free ride, and someone with this sort of attitude is not going to make the cut. I know plenty of people who work at the parks, resorts, or in other hospitality venues in Orlando and they have nice houses or apartments, take vacations out of the country and live well-off lives. None of it was just handed to them though.

 

I take a lot of this talk from cast members who are mad as "I will only work in ride operations or live entertainment and I demand to be a manager and hold court with imagineers!" Walt needed people to sweep streets, scrub toilets, sell t-shirts, and make food too, but I almost never hear about how these specific people are looking to move around the company. They just want to do ops on Pirates of the Caribbean and get paid $20/hr to be "part of the magic".

Almost every single person who works in hospitality in Orlando starts at the bottom. And yes there are plenty of people who will be life-long front line ride ops and street sweepers. Most of the people we interact with are in a middle management position or above in roles from operations to creative to entertainment. I don't hear many complaints. But they also are being rewarded for many years of hard work, loyalty to a company, and they enjoy what they do.

 

Not arguing anything here. Just saying there are great jobs for great people but you have to be willing to put in the effort. And thats really any job or company...

 

I've known a lot of ride ops and food service people who constantly complain, act self-entitled, and hate on the company. Those people go nowhere. And IMO they don't really deserve to.

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I think the best argument against these things is that they remove the opening act of each park. It's a small (but I think significant) thing for a repeat visitor, but there's going to be some segment of the population whose first walk into one of the parks will be via an express bus. I think MK and AK especially have near perfect opening acts, and giving the opportunity to skip those is absolutely a cost. I'm not at all sure that cost outweighs the benefits, but I think it's disingenuous to pretend anyone with complaints is a lunatic.

 

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding it, the express shuttle is strictly park-to-park. You're still going to have to use a regular bus from the hotels and go through security and the front gate at some point. Unless you're going from say Epcot to MK prior to MK's opening, there's still a good chance you go through the main gate and see the opening act.

 

And the best way to get Disney to pay $15/hour? Stop taking jobs and working for less. As long as they have a steady stream of people waiting to snort pixie dust, they have no reason to raise pay rates above market.

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I think MK and AK especially have near perfect opening acts, and giving the opportunity to skip those is absolutely a cost. I'm not at all sure that cost outweighs the benefits, but I think it's disingenuous to pretend anyone with complaints is a lunatic.

 

I'm not trying to be rude, but I know nothing about this Disney nerd subculture so can someone please explain to me what the hell you're talking about? "Opening act"? Is that what you call a security line? Are Disney people that incredibly brainwashed that they think taking a tram to a slow ass boat or monorail to a security line, going through a metal detector and walking under some train tracks onto Main Street is a magical "opening act"? What does that even mean? If you think that's cool then you really need to go to Six Flags Great Adventure. That "opening act" can easily drag on for an hour during Fright Fest. It's magical.

 

If you give me some overly emotional line about the feeling of magic that you get when you look down Main Street and see the castle for the first time while the Disney Kool Aid courses through your veins I really may die laughing.

 

Edit: Plus, if you don't want the "opening act" spoiled then don't take the bus. Nobody is forcing you to take the bus.

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Not arguing anything here. Just saying there are great jobs for great people but you have to be willing to put in the effort. And thats really any job or company...

 

I've known a lot of ride ops and food service people who constantly complain, act self-entitled, and hate on the company. Those people go nowhere. And IMO they don't really deserve to.

 

Yeah, I'm definitely not trying to argue. I just never see people who are actually out hustling, working hard, trying to take new positions and do new things and complaining on the internet about "starving working for Disney". It's the same people doing the same 1-2 types of jobs that they'll only do because they are special snowflakes. There's so many jobs in Orlando, they can't possibly fill them all. If you really want to get paid, you can.

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Wow this thread is brutal. I was under the impression that people are allowed to have different opinions in life, not that there's one right way to look at something and believing otherwise gets you absolutely berated. Aren't you all adults? Did nobody teach you how to respect someone else's opinion as a kid? Seriously, actual children are better at talking to each other than this - grow up and move on.

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I'm not trying to be rude, but I know nothing about this Disney nerd subculture so can someone please explain to me what the hell you're talking about? "Opening act"? Is that what you call a security line? Are Disney people that incredibly brainwashed that they think taking a tram to a slow A$$ boat or monorail to a security line, going through a metal detector and walking under some train tracks onto Main Street is a magical "opening act"? What does that even mean?

 

That's EXACTLY what Disnerds mean. To them, parking at the TTC and being forced to take the monorail or boat is part of the magic as you must journey oh-so-far to this incredible City on The Hill. There's long essays about how the paths from the turnstiles at Animal Kingdom to the Tree Of Life make you feel like you're adventuring or something. Lots of and lots of nonsense to make this stuff seem way more intellectual than it is. The best park though? If you reject any or all of that crap, then clearly you're just some blithering idiot who can't understand the vast and unimaginable genius at work.

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The best park though? If you reject any or all of that crap, then clearly you're just some blithering idiot who can't understand the vast and unimaginable genius at work.

Everyone here is treating people who believe in show (as the Imagineers themselves have always been VERY keen on protecting) as blithering idiots, which is no better.

 

Here's an alternative: we can all be blithering idiots without crapping all over each other. Maturity! Peace on Earth! Crazy, I know!

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Wow this thread is brutal. I was under the impression that people are allowed to have different opinions in life, not that there's one right way to look at something and believing otherwise gets you absolutely berated. Aren't you all adults? Did nobody teach you how to respect someone else's opinion as a kid? Seriously, actual children are better at talking to each other than this - grow up and move on.

 

Aside from people on Facebook I don't think anyone's really being berated. I also didn't mean to berate anyone by asking what an "Opening Act" was either but you have to understand that if you're not a Disney person and you're not familiar with the term then it does seem completely insane. It's practically dripping with arrogance and the idea that this is something unique and special to Disney when practically every theme park in the world has a front gate and main midway and nobody cares if they enter through a different gate. Nobody says "Oh no, don't enter through the resort gate and go to Maverick because then you'll miss the Gatekeeper flyover and the entire opening act will be ruined". Only a Disney person would say something like that so it's really foreign to a lot of people.

 

The problem though isn't that people believe this (as ridiculous as I think it is), but that they're using it to complain about an optional service that nobody is forcing them to use and will have no negative impact on them whatsoever or their "opening act". These are people that are bitching because they enjoy hearing themselves talk and I don't feel bad for making fun of them.

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^Interesting that you would say that.

 

If you give me some overly emotional line about the feeling of magic that you get when you look down Main Street and see the castle for the first time while the Disney Kool Aid courses through your veins I really may die laughing.
Maybe they are all just really sad, horrible jaded people where the only thing that makes them happy is finding things to be miserable about. I'm so happy I'm not this person!

Were either of these things necessary to say? Is this how adults act nowadays? Really? If you don't like the complaining, then ignore it. Done.

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Anyone can theoretically ignore anything they want to and there can never be discourse ever of any kind. If people want to appeal to the sanctity of the traditional park entrance in arguing that express buses are bad, then they need to put together a cogent argument about why it really really matters beyond just "I feel" and "Walt wanted" junk. If there really was a great argument that would convert most people who are agnostic/supportive of the idea, then great! But screw this emotional truth nonsense where people just get to make up whatever reality they want and yell about it getting stepped on by people wielding ugly things like "facts".

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Wow this thread is brutal. I was under the impression that people are allowed to have different opinions in life, not that there's one right way to look at something and believing otherwise gets you absolutely berated. Aren't you all adults? Did nobody teach you how to respect someone else's opinion as a kid? Seriously, actual children are better at talking to each other than this - grow up and move on.

OMG! Stop with this bullshit "isn't anyone allowed to have an opinion here?" Because yes they are and so are other people and if they want to be harsh and argue about it they can. So STFU and grow a pair or go back to your snowflake hideout sheltered from real humans.

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Wow this thread is brutal. I was under the impression that people are allowed to have different opinions in life

 

Is that what the other side is saying? Have they been banning you or others for your differing opinions? As far as I can see, people are telling you guys it's not worth complaining about because this change only affects you if you choose to pay for and take advantage of it. Sure you can have your opinion, but what about everyone else?

 

I'm on the side that doesn't like these recent up-charges. The cabanas, especially seem like an odd thing to pay extra for. So I will not be paying extra for them. Simple as that.

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Anyone can theoretically ignore anything they want to and there can never be discourse ever of any kind.

 

I started to type something but this is far more eloquently put than whatever crap I was going to come up with. It's true though, if people really ignored everything they didn't like and didn't comment on it because they didn't want to hurt people's feelings then this forum would dry up overnight (every forum would). Maybe that's not a pleasant reality but it's a reality.

 

In my opinion there are two things to keep in mind. One, it's hard to convey tone over the internet. If we were having this conversation in person it would be obvious that while I'll gladly give anyone sh*t for talking about stupid things like "Disney Opening Acts", I'll do it in a lighthearted way and if you give me sh*t right back for dorking out about something else (like the fact that yesterday I admitted to blasting a Muppets Christmas Carol song on the way to work) I would be totally cool with that. That brings me to the second thing, which is that people need to stop being so thin skinned. People are way too quick to take offense to absolutely everything. Lighten up, life is way too short for that kind of crap.

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^^ Everything you just said is purely subjective per your point of view. None of your comments actually point to any real issue with this service being offered at all and does not impact anyone in the slightest.

 

I mean, sure, completely objectively speaking and stripping away all aesthetics, they are some busses. But doing that also means Tower of Terror is strictly worse than, say, Detonator at Worlds of Fun (a space shot that's taller than the Tower of Terror). That can't be right (and hold that thought in mind every time I talk about storytelling in this post).

 

"Disney World design put a lot of thought into the things guests see in what order when they enter the park, and buses paradoxically short circuit that" isn't really subjective. Whether that negative outweighs the positives in guests being able to skip security checks (not to mention whatever boon extra cash brings) is subjective...but I'm not sure I come down firmly on one side or the other.

 

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding it, the express shuttle is strictly park-to-park. You're still going to have to use a regular bus from the hotels and go through security and the front gate at some point. Unless you're going from say Epcot to MK prior to MK's opening, there's still a good chance you go through the main gate and see the opening act.

 

That's what i meant by "some segment of the population." The effect is definitely small in quantity, but I think it's relatively large in magnitude. You only get one chance to make a first impression, after all.

 

I'm not trying to be rude, but I know nothing about this Disney nerd subculture so can someone please explain to me what the hell you're talking about? "Opening act"? Is that what you call a security line? Are Disney people that incredibly brainwashed that they think taking a tram to a slow A$$ boat or monorail to a security line, going through a metal detector and walking under some train tracks onto Main Street is a magical "opening act"? What does that even mean? If you think that's cool then you really need to go to Six Flags Great Adventure. That "opening act" can easily drag on for an hour during Fright Fest. It's magical.

 

If you give me some overly emotional line about the feeling of magic that you get when you look down Main Street and see the castle for the first time while the Disney Kool Aid courses through your veins I really may die laughing.

 

Edit: Plus, if you don't want the "opening act" spoiled then don't take the bus. Nobody is forcing you to take the bus.

 

I tend to think of everything after the turnstile as part of the experience of that individual park (you can quibble as to whether the ride from the TTC to the gate is part of it - but consider that the monorail is absolutely iconic to the parks. Dismissing it as "just" a form of transport is probably missing the point a little.)

 

It's not (just) about emotion. It's about storytelling, which is more or less at the core of a ton of WDW experiences. Like, let's walk through it. The plaque at main street station reads, "Here you leave today and enter a world of yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy." And you pass that sign, and you walk down a replica of yesterday's main street, with a carefully-constructed-to-loom-over-you bit of fantasy architecture at the end. You get there, look around the hub, and (guests aside, of course) there aren't indicia of the real world - you're surrounded by the gates into the various lands. That's the opening statement. That's the story. And while a random person might not pick it as their favorite moment (leading them to save 20 minutes by going in by Tomorrowland), that walk is a fundamental portion of the park.

 

And, by the way, it is about emotion too! Last time I saw Wishes, I saw a woman literally bawling at the finale, and there were plenty of people misty eyed. Look at how many memes there are of people being sad at Mufasa's death! These are parts of our cultural psyche, and ignoring it means ignoring what makes Disney a park really worth seeing (stripped of context, there are very few very high quality rides there). You might not get Disney, and that's perfectly okay! It is some magical bullshit! But for people who are interested in an experience and not just a thrill, there's something special there.

 

Aside from people on Facebook I don't think anyone's really being berated. I also didn't mean to berate anyone by asking what an "Opening Act" was either but you have to understand that if you're not a Disney person and you're not familiar with the term then it does seem completely insane. It's practically dripping with arrogance and the idea that this is something unique and special to Disney when practically every theme park in the world has a front gate and main midway and nobody cares if they enter through a different gate. Nobody says "Oh no, don't enter through the resort gate and go to Maverick because then you'll miss the Gatekeeper flyover and the entire opening act will be ruined". Only a Disney person would say something like that so it's really foreign to a lot of people.

 

The problem though isn't that people believe this (as ridiculous as I think it is), but that they're using it to complain about an optional service that nobody is forcing them to use and will have no negative impact on them whatsoever or their "opening act". These are people that are bitching because they enjoy hearing themselves talk and I don't feel bad for making fun of them.

 

Parks are a lot like movies, where more things than you think are considered choices. This is more true for Disney than some parks, as WDW was literally built up from the swamplands (think of SF Fiesta Texas or SFSTL, which didn't have that completely blank to deal with.) So it's frequently worth asking "wait, why is this here?" Why is Main Street before the Castle? Why is the rail station in front of main street? Because of storytelling.

 

Point being, Cedar Point does have an opening statement! It's just not nearly as emotionally resonant because (to my understanding) that isn't the focus of Cedar Point. Cedar Point is about the thrills, plain and simple. There's relatively little focused theming, and they pour tons of money into making things bigger and taller and faster. To inspire the right frame of mind for Disney World, you remove guests from reality through the idealized past and toward outright fantasy. To invoke the right frame of mind for Cedar Point, you have a flyby of a really bitchin coaster. The first impression people get of Cedar Point is the roar of a B&M and the scream of happy guests. There's nothing more iconic than those when it comes to roller coasters! And I think the front gate is way, way stronger with Gatekeeper there. Walking up to the front gate and seeing a train fly by is supposed to put you in the mood to scream like you're in a TPR POV video. But because Cedar Point isn't about storytelling (and because "roar of coaster + screams" can be heard virtually everywhere in the park), missing that flyby is a relatively small cost.

 

And, I want to be clear here, to the people saying, "this won't affect you if you don't pay for it." First, yeah, it'll probably remove buses from circulation. Second, what I'm saying with all these effortposts about theming is that going in the back is going to affect people negatively in ways that are difficult to get at with simple polls. It removes one of the (smaller) things that makes Disney a memorable theme park, rather than an amusement park that happens to have some good intellectual property.

 

EDITED to make my last bits about Cedar Point a little more cogent.

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