Walt Disney World Epcot Discussion Thread

[BlahBlahson]

If this ride is well done, the public won't care at all about it's placement in 5 years.

 

And honestly, I don't see how a permanent frozen land would fit DHS at all. An icy castle inside a big box building somewhere? That would really set me in the mood...

 

MK it would make sense but New Fantasyland was just completed and the only room they really have at that park now is back behind Big Thunder or across the circus near the Auto ride. Behind new Fantasyland would require major changes to the park's tunnel entry and Fireworks shows.

 

But a land already themed to Norway? Yep, that's a pretty good setup for a Frozen Icy Kingdom ride. Maelstrom is one of the 5 worst rides at Disney and that park needs new attractions blood as well. Plus, 2018 Avatar isn't the ONLY thing they'll have to show for the next half decade.

[Nrthwnd]

For myself - wishful thinking -

 

Norway - Frozen

France - Ratatouille

United Kingdom - a new Alice In Wonderland dark ride

Canada - rapids raft ride with indoor film tech involved.

Japan - the Fuji coaster I still think will work.

 

 

Edit to add; My Blue Sky Dream is for Disney to create an Alice In Wonderland ride,

on the scale of Indy Jones in Disneyland! Epic. I mean, a real "down the rabbit hole"

grand adventure. It could be awesome plus! Hoping, in my dreams. And trackless!

Edited September 16, 2014 by Nrthwnd

[ace1974]

I think the issue regarding Epcot adding Frozen is that there's a desire for the park to live up to the potential it demonstrated on its opening, as a unique, vibrant World's Fair and World Showcase.

 

But...Epcot NEVER lived up to that potential. For whatever reasons (many discussed and debated online, ad nauseum,) Disney the corporate entity never understood Epcot, the potential there, and what they could do with the park. Very quickly, the park became something akin to Tron: a risk-taking high-profile white elephant curio that the company didn't know how to optimize.

 

That lack of certainty and direction revealed itself by the end of the park's first decade, where additions to the trip around the world ceased (and really, that aspect should have been a no-brainer regarding additions,) and the edutainment omnimovers in Future World were already stale, already needing replacement...but, with what? Clearly, Disney didn't have a clue.

 

So we got a couple of thrill rides with muddled themes vaguely centered around science and technology (both of which I like, incidentally,) and a fun, simple, "soar" over land masses, which I guess is something. But, clearly, obviously, Disney and their guests are more comfy with characters, with fantasy. I'm sure every 9 out of 10 exit surveys since 1982 has noted that the public wants more characters, less edutainment, and more rides. So, Disney's been inching them into Epcot for quite a while now.

 

I say go for it. The idealized Epcot is gone. If Epcot as Hong Kong Disneyland with stylized mini-lands based around new and existing IPs breathes new and vibrant life into this admittedly stale park, and moreover, Disney the corporation is more comfortable crafting those experiences, then hooray. The sleeping giant hath awakened.

 

I hope they go all out, take the empty pad next to Mexico, and build Arendelle. Set a precedent and the stage for a slew of these mini-lands throughout the park. It will be like Giant Disney Potpurri Land With Booze.

 

Because seriously. Right now they clearly have no idea what to do with the park, from the INSANE Innoventions paint scheme to the Dead Mall spaces at Wonders of Life and Imagination. Why not just go for it and infuse Disney stuff into that Disney park?

[Woodie Warrior]

Apparently all these people thought that the World Showcase pavilions are 100% accurate.

 

I mean, Norway obviously has lots of trolls running around. That's why Maelstrom has trolls in it, right?!?!

[Fat-G]

^ Would love to see a ride based on the film Troll Hunters, that would be epic!

[ace1974]

Apparently all these people thought that the World Showcase pavilions are 100% accurate.

 

I mean, Norway obviously has lots of trolls running around. That's why Maelstrom has trolls in it, right?!?!

 

Not that it excuses this bizarre, intractable behavior amongst the hardcore purist...but there IS a difference between taking mythic components of a country's history and culture to create an experience than dropping what essentially is a modern American Movie Musical in Denmark drag into its place. I personally don't care: Epcot is so far gone they might as well take the leap...but Frozen doesn't celebrate or honor the genuine culture of Norway. If anything, Frozen uses the backdrop of a traditional Scandinavian setting to tell a distinctly modern, and distinctly American tale. It even uses one of America's three unique art forms (musical theatre) to do this.

 

To offer a contrast, if Disney dropped a ride based on Spirited Away into the Japan pavilion, it would be a different scenario, as that movie is distinctly Japanese, exploring both modern and traditional concepts and tenets inherent in Japanese culture. That we as an American audience derive meaning and poignance from our outside look into that distinctly Japanese world doesn't change it's fundamental nature as Japanese. Frozen is distinctly American. That a global audience derives meaning and substance from the piece doesn't change it's fundamental nature as anything but American. I think that's the difference.

 

Did that make sense or did I totally just nerd out?

[necoastergp]

^ Frozen is based on the story The Snow Queen by a Danish author in the 1800s, it was not based on a strictly American everything tale.

[Garet]

I realize i'm a bit late since the whole Frozen/Norway thing happened but I finally got out to one of the bigger shops to find the drink Robb was talking about. Sorry about the quality, my battery had swollen on my iphone a little and pushed on the case so my lens was crappy, I got it fixed a few days after.

It was hidden behind the jerky and didn't exactly have prime placement in the rice-wines

I didn't have a fancy glass like Robb had (or any clean ones) so settled for a mug from the days when I actually liked Everland.

[Rai Fox]

For myself - wishful thinking -

 

Norway - Frozen

France - Ratatouille

United Kingdom - a new Alice In Wonderland dark ride

Canada - rapids raft ride with indoor film tech involved.

Japan - the Fuji coaster I still think will work.

 

 

Edit to add; My Blue Sky Dream is for Disney to create an Alice In Wonderland ride,

on the scale of Indy Jones in Disneyland! Epic. I mean, a real "down the rabbit hole"

grand adventure. It could be awesome plus! Hoping, in my dreams. And trackless!

 

You know, as much as I'm not a fan of the Frozen thing, it sounds better like that, with all of those rides, or something similar. I think it's just because, to me, the Frozen thing stands out, feels out of place, when it's the only "country" with a movie tie-in attraction. If they all had something like that...well, I'd still rather have seen the original idea for the world showcase work out...but it would certainly be better than doing nothing at all with it.

 

A really crazy Alice in Wonderland ride like that would be pretty amazing, too.

[cfc]

^Hmm--actually Mexico has a "movie tie in attraction," too: the Gran Fiesta Tour boat ride is based on The Three Caballeros.

Edited September 16, 2014 by cfc

[Rai Fox]

^Hmm--actually Mexico has a "movie tie in attraction," too: the Gran Fiesta Tour boat ride is based on The Three Caballeros.

 

True, that just seems like it's at least centered around the country itself a little bit more.

 

Personally, I'll miss the Maelstrom; I seem to be one of the rare few that actually liked it; but I did like Frozen, too, so I'll stay optimistic. I just want to see Disney decide what they're doing with the World Showcase in general, that's all.

[cfc]

^I liked Maelstrom well enough, but, let's face it, it was looking pretty dated (the trolls were cool, though). At least Frozen is set in the same region, if not exactly "Norway."

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Frozen's connection to Norway, as told by Wikipedia:

 

To create the look of Frozen, Giaimo began pre-production research by reading extensively about the entire region of Scandinavia and visiting the Danish-themed city of Solvang near Los Angeles, but eventually zeroed in on Norway in particular because "80 percent" of the visuals that appealed to him were from Norway.[69] Disney eventually sponsored three research field trips.[70] Animators and special effects specialists were dispatched to Jackson Hole, Wyoming to experience walking, running, and falling in deep snow in a variety of types of attire, including long skirts (which both female and male personnel tried on);[32][69][70][71] while lighting and arts teams visited an Ice Hotel in Quebec City, Quebec to study how light reflects and refracts on snow and ice.[54] Finally, Giaimo and several artists traveled to Norway to draw inspiration from its mountains, fjords, architecture, and culture.[70][72] "We had a very short time schedule for this film, so our main focus was really to get the story right but we knew that John Lasseter is keen on truth in the material and creating a believable world, and again that doesn't mean it's a realistic world – but a believable one. It was important to see the scope and scale of Norway, and important for our animators to know what it's like," Del Vecho said.[73] "There is a real feeling of Lawrence of Arabia scope and scale to this," he finished

 

 

Regarding the look and nature of the film's cinematography, Giaimo was greatly influenced by Jack Cardiff's work in Black Narcissus. According to him, it lent a hyper-reality to the film: "Because this is a movie with such scale and we have the Norwegian fjords to draw from, I really wanted to explore the depth. From a design perspective, since I was stressing the horizontal and vertical aspects, and what the fjords provide, it was perfect. We encased the sibling story in scale." Ted D. McCord's work in The Sound of Music was another major influence for Giaimo. It was also Giaimo's idea that Frozen should be filmed in the CinemaScope aspect ratio, which was approved by Lasseter.[75] Giaimo also wanted to ensure that Norway's fjords, architecture and rosemaling folk art, were critical factors in designing the environment of Arendelle. Giaimo, whose background is in traditional animation, said that the art design environment represents a unity of character and environment and that he originally wanted to incorporate saturated colors, which is typically ill-advised in computer animation.[75] For further authenticity, a live reindeer named Sage was brought into the studio for animators to study its movements and mannerisms for the character Sven.[78][79]

 

 

Another important issue Giaimo insisted on addressing was costumes, in that he "knew from the start" it would be a "costume film."[30]:77 To realize that vision, he brought in character designer Jean Gillmore to act as a dedicated "costume designer".[80] While traditional animation simply integrates costume design with character design and treats clothing as merely part of the characters, computer-generated animation regards costume as almost a separate entity with its own properties and behaviors[80]—and Frozen required a level of as-yet untried detail, down to minutia like fabrics, buttons, trim, and stitching.[30]:76 Gillmore explained that her "general approach was to meld the historic silhouettes of 1840 Western Europe (give or take), with the shapes and garment relationships and details of folk costume in early Norway, circa 19th century."[80] This meant using primarily wool fabric with accents of velvet, linen, and silk.[30]:75 During production, Giaimo and Gillmore "ran around" supplying various departments with real-world samples to use as references; they were able to draw upon both the studio's own in-house library of fabric samples as well as the resources of Disney Parks' costume division in Fullerton, California.[80] The film's "look development artists" (the Disney job title for texture artists[81]:58–59) created the digitally painted simulation of the appearance of surfaces, while other departments dealt with movement, rigging and weight, thickness and lighting of textile animation.[80]

 

[Rai Fox]

^I liked Maelstrom well enough, but, let's face it, it was looking pretty dated (the trolls were cool, though). At least Frozen is set in the same region, if not exactly "Norway."

 

Yeah, I definitely understand their reasoning. I'm not 100% happy about it, but I'll just wait and see what happens with the new ride.

[Erik Johnson]

I am still waiting for the Tron Arcade for one of the Communicore buildings. It has been a really long wait so far.

[cfc]

^Welcome to the Country of Tron!

[DBJ]

While I love the idea of a Frozen attraction, I would have hoped for such a huge animated property, it would be more on the scale of Carsland rather than Little Mermaid at WDW.

[hydra]

^agreed. Personally not a huge fan (like apparently everyone on here) of the film, but I feel like by including it into the Norway pavilion they are limiting their expansion of that IP. If that makes any sense.

I guess they could eventually just takeover the rest of Norway, but do think they would do that?

[ace1974]

^agreed. Personally not a huge fan (like apparently everyone on here) of the film, but I feel like by including it into the Norway pavilion they are limiting their expansion of that IP. If that makes any sense.

I guess they could eventually just takeover the rest of Norway, but do think they would do that?

 

Once they take over the ride and create a meet and greet, is there really any Norway left in the pavilion? The restaurant is already a character buffet, and one has to assume that the current giant troll gift shop will be reworked to be Frozen, so what's left, really?

[hydra]

Very good point.

[robbalvey]

^agreed. Personally not a huge fan (like apparently everyone on here) of the film, but I feel like by including it into the Norway pavilion they are limiting their expansion of that IP. If that makes any sense.

I guess they could eventually just takeover the rest of Norway, but do think they would do that?

 

Once they take over the ride and create a meet and greet, is there really any Norway left in the pavilion? The restaurant is already a character buffet, and one has to assume that the current giant troll gift shop will be reworked to be Frozen, so what's left, really?

All I know is that I'm going to really LAUGH MY ASS off at all of this when they actually do a very good job of integrating Frozen into the Norway pavilion, create a very good ride, and do World Showcase justice by not only bringing a much needed high profile attraction into that part of the park, but preserving the Norway feel which will make guests and fans very happy.

 

Because I'm sure that's exactly what they are going to do, and all this bitching will be wasted internet bandwidth. Moreso than it already is.

[robbalvey]

Oh, yeah, and I rode Maelstrom twice tonight to get some photos and video... The ride really is "not good"

You may get wet...but not for much longer!

I think I'll miss this funny mural more than the ride! "How's it going Grizzly Adams?"

Was posted a 25 minute wait time. Took us like 10.

Always hated the giant front of the boat that blocks your view!

The only somewhat good part of the ride.

Goodbye Maelstrom...

The freakishly tall polar bear. #dumb

Edited September 17, 2014 by robbalvey

[cfc]

The trolls were always the best part.

[Nrthwnd]

This might beat the Winter Ride (in the amount of 'ice') that is at Europa Park.

[BlahBlahson]

They could expand the IP if they needed to. There is space between Norway and Mexico for more stuff. Currently occupied by trailers and supply trucks.