Walt Disney World Epcot Discussion Thread

[bert425]

^^^That map is awesome.

 

can't take credit . I ran across it a while back and it made me laugh, so I went looking for it again online

[Philrad71]

^

[SharkTums]

I guess what I don't understand about all of the craziness surrounding this announcement is that it's a theme park. It's not a cultural exchange or an Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. It hasn't been for a long time. You know why? Because people complained and made fun of it!!! So now Epcot has been putting in more fun rides, more rides for children, and more events. Why is this a bad thing? They're making money, the park is more fun for everyone, and it's awesome!

 

This park was punishment for children in the late 80's and early 90's. We went there for French Club field trips and were miserable. Now it's Kristen's favorite park of all the Florida Disney's and she can't wait for a Frozen ride. Sounds like they're going for their target demographic and doing a great job!

[cfc]

^Then there's the case of a friend of mine in Williamsburg. When he moved down here from New Hampshire, he was convinced that "Busch Gardens: The Old Country" was some sort of museum or cultural experience. I think he discovered he was mistaken when he noticed the roller coaster with the interlocking loops in the park's center.

 

I think Epcot walks the line between "cultural experience" and "theme park" pretty well, especially with events like Food & Wine, which really is a "cultural experience" (not to mention delicious).

[WW1 Flying Ace]

I LOVE FROZEN!!! I am elated to hear this and will love it pretty much no matter what they do. However, I was hoping it could be part of New Fantasyland so we could finally have proof of the Frozen-Tangled-Little Mermaid Conspiracy!

[Mr. Starr]

Smart move by Disney. A movie that has grossed 1.2 billion worldwide is obviously something to continue to capitalize on in the parks.

 

I think a lot of people criticizing this whole thing are people who just aren't into Frozen, which makes sense. If a bunch of young girls were posting here, there would be a lot less complaining. This addition just isn't meant for the middle-aged male demographic, which is why it is being criticized here.

[Hilltopper39]

I hope they introduce a new ride system or find a way to increase capacity if the existing one. If they just re-do the ride as is that thing will be a capacity nightmare with gigantic lines.

 

I'm glad to see some new attractions coming to the world schowacse. I love EPCOT, my favorite park in orlando, but the showcase could uses something new and hopefully this is just the start of great things to come for that park.

[OrlandoGuy]

I guess what I don't understand about all of the craziness surrounding this announcement is that it's a theme park. It's not a cultural exchange or an Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. It hasn't been for a long time. You know why? Because people complained and made fun of it!!! So now Epcot has been putting in more fun rides, more rides for children, and more events. Why is this a bad thing? They're making money, the park is more fun for everyone, and it's awesome!

 

This park was punishment for children in the late 80's and early 90's. We went there for French Club field trips and were miserable. Now it's Kristen's favorite park of all the Florida Disney's and she can't wait for a Frozen ride. Sounds like they're going for their target demographic and doing a great job!

 

This is so true. "Theme purists" are the most insane people in the world. Epcot is not meant to

be a museum or series of diplomats...its first and foremost a theme park meant to entertain people.

 

Now, thats not to say I dont appreciate the educational aspects of Epcot. But a Frozen ride isnt going to change the elaborate land that it resides in. The shops are full of neat little cultural tidbits and the dining outlets will still serve authentic food. A ride based on Disney's most popular animated film wont take away from the environment its in that has already been constructed. But at the end of the day its a theme park meant to entertain its guests.

[ImmelMatt]

^ Purism isn't necessarily a bad thing when it comes to amusement parks. Gutting theming results in things like parking lot roller coasters or Medusa hiding out in a frontier mine or so on. Without purist ideals, every theme park would be following the Six Flags model by now.

 

That said, Disney is still the gold standard of purism. While doubt is healthy over an announcement like this, putting a fairy tale ride in a theme park area that is decidedly not meant to cater to the fairy tale aspects of Disney, they are actually matching a fairy tale setting to its real life geographical equivalent. It will bring people to a side of Epcot that they wouldn't otherwise go lest for shopping and food, it will sell more tickets to multiple parks since the kids will undoubtedly be all over Frozen... seriously, everything about this announcement is a good thing and does not spell the end of the World Village as we know it to be.

[robbalvey]

While doubt is healthy over an announcement like this, putting a fairy tale ride in a theme park area that is decidedly not meant to cater to the fairy tale aspects of Disney, they are actually matching a fairy tale setting to its real life geographical equivalent. It will bring people to a side of Epcot that they wouldn't otherwise go lest for shopping and food, it will sell more tickets to multiple parks since the kids will undoubtedly be all over Frozen... seriously, everything about this announcement is a good thing and does not spell the end of the World Village as we know it to be.

If more people were able to use logic as you have I'm sure there would be a lot fewer upset people over the announcement and less people banned from our Twitter, Facebook, and Forum pages.

[jray21]

I think it'll be a great addition. If Norway ever had a line more than 10 minutes, I'd skip it. Anything to spruce up an old attraction is a good move in my book.

Edited September 14, 2014 by jray21

[goldenstate5]

It's difficult to without knowing what Disney has in mind--making a complete overhaul of the old attraction, or performing a "makeover," like they did for Test Track.

 

Judging that the ride isn't scheduled to open in 2016, it should be something huge. Test Track was only closed for 7 months, Maelstrom looks like it will be closed for closer to 15 months.

 

Apples and oranges. TT got repainted and had some lighting, video and redressing of old sets.

 

This redo will most likely rip out all the existing sets and install new ones surrounding the existing flume. Most likely some sophisticated AAs of Frozen characters. Not a tiny overlay, but 15 to 17 months seems about right.

[Guy T. Koepp]

I am all for this overlay. I liked Frozen, but don't necessarily have the hard on for it that others do. With that said, Anna and Elsa are HAWT! And I am all about adding HAWTNESS to anything. So I say, Go Disney! Just please don't change the bevy of A+++ talent you have working in that gift shop.

 

Ooooooo! While your at it, when your done with Norway. Can you add a whole lot of that red headed vixen Merida to Ireland? She screams for her own dark ride. (Take that last statement however you want.)

 

Guy "New mission is bringing sexy back to EPCOT." Koepp

[Hilltopper39]

I spent the majority of the day at Epcot Saturday for the first time forever and had a great day except for my meal in Japan. I used to love the quick server there when it was still the Yakatori house but for whatever reason it seemed like the new Katsura Grill was just awful. It doesn't seem like the menu changed that drastically but the meal I got was terrible. On the plus side the quick serve in Morocco and the new location in France were amazing.

 

I also finally got to fully experience the new Test Track. I did single rider a few times previously but this time we waited through the normal stand by line to check out the whole design studio which was really impressive. It was a lot fun building our own car and seeing it's "results" throughout the ride experience. I still wish they would have done something to the outside section but overall that refurbishment was really solid and Test Track is still one of the best attractions at WDW.

 

Also, being at Epcot 5 days before the start of Food and Wine was a real punch in the gut. I could see all of the booths blocked off by giant planters but couldn't sample anything but oh well, just gives me an excuse to go back!

[PeoplemoverMatt]

I went back to the first page of this thread from 2005 only to find some people decrying the addition of Soarin' because it didn't fit in with The Land pavilion's theme. 9 years later it has shown a consistent ability to be one of Epcot's most popular attractions, and has had the ability to draw people into the Land pavilion that would never have gone in there before. Many more families have ridden Living with the Land and eaten at Seasons and Garden Grill too. In fact, I'd theorize that the refurbs to both Seasons and Garden Grill would not have happened as fast or as great as they were had Soarin' have never been built.

 

Just goes to show you that some people will denounce basically any new attraction, no matter how amazing it is or how much it makes complete sense for it to be built in its location, because they resist a change to that location. Fact is that times change. The parks must change with the passing of time or they will die. These additions might bend theme consistency slightly, but that's no reason at all whatsoever to not do them and lose the huge gains they bring. Same thing goes for this announcement of Frozen coming to Norway.

 

Turning Malestrom into Frozen will ensure a HUGE amount of traffic will always be in Norway Pavilion, Akershaus will be permanently booked up, and a LOT of families will now take the time in World Showcase that they never would before because they feared their kids would be dreadfully bored. That's a GOOD thing for everybody! The purists should understand this and be happy too, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

Edited September 15, 2014 by PeoplemoverMatt

[robbalvey]

^ That about sums it up!

[better_by_design]

Turning Malestrom into Frozen will ensure a HUGE amount of traffic will always be in Norway Pavilion, Akershaus will be permanently booked up, and a LOT of families will now take the time in World Showcase that they never would before because they feared their kids would be dreadfully bored. That's a GOOD thing for everybody! The purists should understand this and be happy too, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

 

I mean, Akershus is pretty consistently booked already... why? It's a princess meal in WDW. Which is also important to note - the themeing ship has sailed, friends... since Cindy, Aurora, etcetera have been "visiting" Norway for what, over a decade now?

 

This is all going to make Norway the biggest draw in World Showcase by a LONG shot. At least in terms of pavilions/attractions. One has to be concerned that doing this as an overlay/gutting of the existing buildings/ride system is going to leave poor Norway overwhelmed by the Frozen-obsessed guests. I mean, seriously, I can already name families that will be planning trips JUST FOR THIS as soon as word gets out.

 

So, the bigger issue is this:

I hope they introduce a new ride system or find a way to increase capacity if the existing one. If they just re-do the ride as is that thing will be a capacity nightmare with gigantic lines.

 

Maelstrom already had lines... at times. For Epcot, that's a big deal! Add Disney's most successful movie in 2 generations? Nightmare!

 

Not going "full boat" and putting in a higher capacity ride system is going to bite them in the butt in 2016.

 

Anyone have thoughts of whether they can reverse the ride pre-show/post-show flow and use the giant theater area as a pre-show? Or are we all just assuming that space becomes a meet-and-greet and there's going to be 2 hour standby lines snaking out to the World Showcase promenade somehow?

[robbalvey]

Turning Malestrom into Frozen will ensure a HUGE amount of traffic will always be in Norway Pavilion, Akershaus will be permanently booked up, and a LOT of families will now take the time in World Showcase that they never would before because they feared their kids would be dreadfully bored. That's a GOOD thing for everybody! The purists should understand this and be happy too, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

 

I mean, Akershus is pretty consistently booked already... why? It's a princess meal in WDW. Which is also important to note - the themeing ship has sailed, friends... since Cindy, Aurora, etcetera have been "visiting" Norway for what, over a decade now?

 

Exactly. And how much has this REALLY impacted the actual theming of Norway? Has anyone in the last ten years walked into Norway and went "Oh, man, with those non-Norwegian princesses somewhere in that building over there, this place has really gone to hell!"

 

Nobody has said this. Ever.

Edited September 15, 2014 by robbalvey

[cfc]

Turning Malestrom into Frozen will ensure a HUGE amount of traffic will always be in Norway Pavilion, Akershaus will be permanently booked up, and a LOT of families will now take the time in World Showcase that they never would before because they feared their kids would be dreadfully bored. That's a GOOD thing for everybody! The purists should understand this and be happy too, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

 

I mean, Akershus is pretty consistently booked already... why? It's a princess meal in WDW. Which is also important to note - the themeing ship has sailed, friends... since Cindy, Aurora, etcetera have been "visiting" Norway for what, over a decade now?

 

Exactly. And how much has this REALLY impacted the actual theming of Norway? Has anyone in the last ten years walked into Norway and went "Oh, man, with those non-Norwegian princesses somewhere in that building over there, this place has really gone to hell!"

 

Nobody has said this. Ever.

 

Oh, I'm sure some blogger will at some point.

[KC_Engineer]

To me, this kind of attraction does not have a place in Epcot. Especially not in World Showcase. World Showcase is not about promoting Disney franchises. It's about promoting countries of the world and representing them in a type of world's fair.

Wait, really? This is what you think? REALLY?!?!?

 

So what you're saying is that Frozen doesn't make sense, even though they have said over and over again that the movie is based on real locations in Norway, but characters like Mulan, Snow White, Mary Poppins, Alice, Aladdin, Jasmine, Donald, Aristocats, Remi, etc, all of which have appeared in World Showcase for YEARS are all "ok" in that area of the park in your mind for some reason?

 

And what are you talking about promoting countries??? Do you *honestly believe* that the countries in the World Showcase are really like the actual places??? I can tell you that Elissa and I have been to ALL of the real World Showcase countries, and while it's a nice representation, it's most certainly a "theme park vision" of those countries. And that's not a bad thing.

 

If you're going to Epcot for a "cultural experience", then you're doing it wrong. The Disney franchises fit in just fine in World Showcase. I mean, hi...it's a DISNEY PARK!!!

 

/end rant

 

I feel bad for the people of Norway (who, by the way, did NOT want this...)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!

I'm picturing you going door to door visiting everyone in Norway holding up a picture of the Frozen attraction at Epcot and asking people if this is what they think the next attraction at Epcot should be. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!

 

Wow. Some of the things people will actually say... Simply amazing.

 

Robb,

 

I don't know you personally, but I've been a huge fan of yours and this site for awhile now. I have to say, I don't understand the lengths with which you went to call me stupid for having the opinion that I do. It's disappointing that some on this forum can have legitimate opinions and put forth arguments, only to have them shouted down and mocked (excessively) by you, if their views do not align with yours.

 

I didn't write anything outlandish or rude, didn't call Disney morons for taking out Maelstrom for a Frozen ride, or anything of the sort. I personally will love this attraction, I'm sure, whatever it turns out to be. I'm simply disappointed to see it end up in EPCOT, where, IN MY OPINION, it doesn't belong. I'm sorry if that offended you or anyone else on this board.

 

Having said all that, I'll continue enjoying all of your great content. Keep up the great work.

[robbalvey]

^ Sorry, I'll try not to have any more opinions about your opinion since obviously that seems to upset people.

I don't understand the lengths with which you went to call me stupid for having the opinion that I do.

Since you inquired about this, let me explain... You wrote this:

World Showcase is not about promoting Disney franchises. It's about promoting countries of the world and representing them in a type of world's fair.

I went back and looked at all your posts. Where were all your posts furious about when Anna & Elsa appeared in Norway last fall and remained there for several months? Why weren't you complaining about Disney promoting their franchises then? All those people didn't come to the Norway pavilion then to see Norway, they came to see Anna & Elsa. Where all your posts upset about that and about all the other Disney characters and references that you can find all over World Showcase and part of the attractions there? Where are those posts?

 

So, from my perspective, you are only upset about this *NOW* with this one announcement. Why? Disney has been promoting their film franchises in World Showcase for YEARS! And this will not even be the first time a Disney character will have appeared in an attraction in World Showcase. So why all of a sudden are you "SHAME ON DISNEY" when they are simply going down the same path Epcot has been on for at least a decade.

 

Like Elissa said a few pages back:

I guess what I don't understand about all of the craziness surrounding this announcement is that it's a theme park. It's not a cultural exchange or an Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. It hasn't been for a long time. You know why? Because people complained and made fun of it!!! So now Epcot has been putting in more fun rides, more rides for children, and more events. Why is this a bad thing? They're making money, the park is more fun for everyone, and it's awesome!

 

This park was punishment for children in the late 80's and early 90's. We went there for French Club field trips and were miserable. Now it's Kristen's favorite park of all the Florida Disney's and she can't wait for a Frozen ride. Sounds like they're going for their target demographic and doing a great job!

 

That's my explanation of why I felt the need to go on a rant. Not just because of YOUR one post, but because of everyone who is making these same broad strokes claims about Epcot.

Edited September 15, 2014 by robbalvey

[hey...hey]

I have to agree with Robb and Elissa, not until they added such rides as Soarin, Mission to Space, Nemo and Test Track was Epcot what it is now. I have talked to numerous people who are pure Disney fans and they think Epcot is the best park.

 

Now before all the redoing and additions, the park was pretty much just for the casual grown up. Not many headliner rides. Just the meandering people movers and the tour around the world.

 

As for this whole Norway redo, I think Epcot does need this. Not all the princesses should be only at MK. Yes it will cause a little bit of chaos around that way, but I am sure Disney knows this and will do its thing.

[better_by_design]

I have to agree with Robb and Elissa, not until they added such rides as Soarin, Mission to Space, Nemo and Test Track was Epcot what it is now. I have talked to numerous people who are pure Disney fans and they think Epcot is the best park.

 

Now before all the redoing and additions, the park was pretty much just for the casual grown up. Not many headliner rides. Just the meandering people movers and the tour around the world.

 

As for this whole Norway redo, I think Epcot does need this. Not all the princesses should be only at MK. Yes it will cause a little bit of chaos around that way, but I am sure Disney knows this and will do its thing.

 

I sure hope they do it properly - accounting for the crowds - and not just a budget/time constrained shoe-horn job.

 

And MAYBE - just maybe - it'll prove enough of a boost to attendance/spending to encourage some further investment in World Showcase ATTRACTIONS - which have been overlooked since every pavilion got built, basically. The only mild updates were bringing Donald & pals to the LAMBR, and film updates to China & Canada... LOTS of restaurant upgrades (where the $$$ gets made), continually improved Food & Wine Fest ($$$)... but nothing attraction-wise since... ?

 

Epcot still has a TON of room for expansion, and lots of room in the existing infrastructure for bigger crowds... best case scenario is that Froze-strom spurs crowds and further investment. Can't ever see an E (or even D) ticket being brought forward if this isn't a wild success.

[Fat-G]

I am looking forward to this makeover, I loved the movie and this is a great move for the World Showcase, I'm just hoping that not all of the "Norway" theme is removed, for example they could use the theater in the pavilion to show how real locations were used to inspire the movie.

 

When this expansion is a success maybe we'll get that purposed bullet train attraction for the Japan Pavilion...

[PeoplemoverMatt]

What about the announcement has indicated to people that the anything & everything Norway will be completely removed from this just because Maelstrom is turning Frozen? Did I miss something? This seems like people flying off the deep end waaaaay too soon.

 

For one, the two are not at odds with each other. There's a reason this ride isn't being built next door in the China pavilion. Frozen fits into Norway as seamlessly as can be possible in World Showcase. For another, I've always felt there was more 'Norway' in those gift shops and facades in/around the Norway pavilion than in Maelstrom itself. The announcement didn't really indicate any massive change is coming to them. I'm sure they'll change slightly, but they'll probably still resemble their familiar Norwegian selves.

 

There isn't much to go on from the announcement alone as to what everything will end up looking like, but I'm willing to bet that no matter how much Frozen comes in, the pavilion as a whole will still look and feel "Norway" and won't be terrible.