Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[thepoint4life23]

I think CP rundown also posted you can see markers when you ride iron dragon near the TTD brake run. 

Not sure what any of this means. I assume that the marks are for marking utility lines. So i guess all we know is that something is going to happen.  

[Pedrinho]

1 hour ago, coasterbill said:

Yeah, CP Rundown has a post showing an absolute crap-ton of markings everywhere.

That's one of the best news possible!

[Hilltopper39]

For whatever reason as soon as they announced this would be closing for the season I immediately thought about a renovation to a LIM launch like Red Force has, I have no idea if that's the case or a possibility but seems like everything is moving to LIM launches so it would probably make sense from a reliability and maintenance standpoint (again something I know nothing about).

 

I'm not exactly tuned into the European coaster world but haven't really heard of regular extended downtime for that ride. If it's possible to convert it and it makes it more reliable seems like that would be a reasonable option considering how popular this attraction is.

 

Also what was the last hydraulic launch coater Intamin built? Was it Formula Rossa in 2010? Has there been another hydraulic launch coaster built since then? 

[tndank]

From cprundown

 

[_s3_]

If this were to happen, it'll be a costly investment. Train modifications, launch track modification and/or replacement, likely brake run changes, control system swap, etc. Maintenance wise, it would be better as less moving parts the better. If it ever were to switch to LSM you are removing a lot of parts that are a constant source of the downtime. Around 312 individual hydraulic pistons and brake fins (that all need monitored), the launch dog and cable system, and the actual hydraulic motors for the launch itself. That's the beauty of LSMs is that they are stationary and serve as brakes when not powered to launch.

That being said, LSMs are also not foolproof and have their own issues, especially if you were to take the risk to "push it to the limits" and create the fastest launched LSM coaster in the world. Would it be less maintenance? Quite possibly. Could it open up a whole new can of worms in terms of problems arising? Absolutely. Let alone the power draw that is required for each launch, which would be astronomical compared to the hydraulic motors. There are a multitude of factors that would need to be cost analyzed for this.

At the end of the day, can LSMs reliability even push 120mph+ in TTDs current space? Red Force gets to ~112mph in 100ft less of launch track, but how much further can you push it? So many questions.

Curious to see what will be done with it though. There are a hell of a lot of utility and survey markings around. Could be anything though. Even replacement of pavement / concrete would require an 811 survey to mark out everything. Wouldn't read too much into any markings, wait for work to actually start.

[coasterbill]

^^ This is basically a Six Flags Diamond Membership

It's really interesting that Cedar Fair is moving towards knockoff Six Flags memberships just as Six Flags is getting rid of memberships.

[tndank]

10 minutes ago, coasterbill said:

^^ This is basically a Six Flags Diamond Membership

It's really interesting that Cedar Fair is moving towards knockoff Six Flags memberships just as Six Flags is getting rid of memberships.

Exactly what I thought.  And they are doing it right after Six Flags ditched their version.

It's a bit strange for sure.

[Hilltopper39]

2 hours ago, _s3_ said:

At the end of the day, can LSMs reliability even push 120mph+ in TTDs current space? Red Force gets to ~112mph in 100ft less of launch track, but how much further can you push it? So many questions.
 

Red Force only gets to 112 but also only has 4 car trains with 12 riders vs 5 trains with 18 rides like Dragster. I'm no expert on this but seems like with a longer launch track and the smaller train it could be possible to use the existing track, but you're right in that it would still be a massive investment for the controls system, trains, and launch/braking hardware alone.  

Will be interesting to see what ends up happening with it for sure. 

[AmyUD06]

Re: TTD - For the thousandth time, the launch mechanism had nothing to do with last year's incident. They're not changing the launch mechanism.

Re: Prestige Passes - Why does the regular $300 Prestige Pass not include access to other parks, when the $250 Platinum from MiA does?  This leaves so many questions.  I find it hard to believe that after so many years of CF pricing its "All Park" pass the same depending on what park you buy it at that they're going to change it now.

[southpuddle]

3 hours ago, _s3_ said:

At the end of the day, can LSMs reliability even push 120mph+ in TTDs current space? Red Force gets to ~112mph in 100ft less of launch track, but how much further can you push it? So many questions.

Absolutely.  There’s nothing preventing them from running the LSMs a quarter of the way (or more) up the tower. It wouldn’t be as powerful of a launch and would take away a lot of the point of the ride, but space constraints are not an issue. 

[tndank]

8 minutes ago, AmyUD06 said:

Re: Prestige Passes - Why does the regular $300 Prestige Pass not include access to other parks, when the $250 Platinum from MiA does?  This leaves so many questions.  I find it hard to believe that after so many years of CF pricing its "All Park" pass the same depending on what park you buy it at that they're going to change it now.

These are new passes.  Traditional Gold and Plat will be on sale next week.

[coasterbill]

Since we're all talking about things that don't make any sense and wouldn't fix anything that had anything to do with the accident, what about a twisted vertical lift hill all the way up the tower that just drops you over the other side.

... think about it.

[_s3_]

Only talking about it because of wayyy too many mentions / rumors about it. Nobody thinks of the larger implications and why it wouldn't happen.

That being said, the accident was caused by a faulty bolt on the flag plate failing and that issue could have been solved (along with moving and/or changing the queue) prior to this season. I likely feel that there is something larger at play with TTD being shelved for this season, but I highly doubt we'll see any operational changes to the ride itself.

[CP_RULES]

Those markings mean they are adding a Cracker Barrel to replace the grandstand. Actually nothing at all to do with TTD at all that’s just the “study area” outline Cracker Barrel uses for their new restaurants. It’s pretty basic stuff, nothing to worry about. Trust me, I am a marking specialist!

[TurnOfTheCentury]

hmmmm..... those markings at TTD.....

the safest guess is that they are simply re-configuring the line area (not sure why that necessitated an entire down season, but maybe they needed the findings to come out, consider a variety of options, and finally execute on a plan....)

I do suspect that they must have considered scrapping the ride because of the enormous costs and downtime on it.   But as much as a LSM or multiple launch like Pantheon would make sense if built TODAY, from a return of investment standpoint, it makes very little sense to invest in an entirely new launch system on this ride because of all the reasons others have mentioned (new trains, LSM system, control system, etc.... -- that's a many, many millions investment for a change that the general public wouldn't even notice and so how do you market that investment? )

Now, I have to confess that the irrational fanboy part of me was hoping they would simply repurpose the tophat to create a 400 foot-full circuit ride (somehow)

[boldikus]

17 hours ago, _s3_ said:

Only talking about it because of wayyy too many mentions / rumors about it.

There are are only way too many mentions/rumors about it because enthusiasts are basically f*ckin' crackheads.

[Hilltopper39]

29 minutes ago, boldikus said:

There are are only way too many mentions/rumors about it because enthusiasts are basically f*ckin' crackheads.

Heaven forbid anyone has a little fun with some fantasy speculation in this hobby. 

[coasterbill]

I get what you're saying but this isn't a Top Thrill Dragster fan-fiction thread. Most people (hopefully) are operating under the assumption that we're all living in reality. I assume that most of the insane ideas posted here that aren't framed as a crazy fantasy ideas are 100% serious, and even if they're not other people will assume they are and run with them because coaster enthusiasts are mostly insane.

[CoasterNerd87]

Likely they couldn't begin any changes to the ride due to possible pending litigation (probably including a NDA). They were probably already well into the operating season once that cleared up and they definitely aren't going to work on any queue/plaza modifications while the park is open 7 days a week. IMO, they are getting prepared to move/modify queue with fencing of some sort along the launch and brake areas to prevent this from happening again. 

[prozach626]

On 8/3/2022 at 9:03 PM, coasternut said:

Maybe the lawyers won't win and TTD will live again...

Um. Who's lawyers?

[AmyUD06]

8 hours ago, prozach626 said:

Um. Who's lawyers?

Please don't entertain baseless conspiracy theories LOL.

[rachelmadcow]

It would only make sense to add LSM if they can extended it somehow. As-is the GP wouldnt even notice the 20m investment that the overhaul of the launch system would cost. 
 

if they do add LSMs then they need to add a bowl section like accelerator. So that the GP will recognize it as “different”  or go nuts and create a Formula Rossa West 

I think the expansion of TTD is the most logical  route for CP since they will get a bunch of records  

regardless CP is never getting rid of TTD simply bc Kingda Ka exists. 

[AmyUD06]

7 minutes ago, rachelmadcow said:

It would only make sense to add LSM if they can extended it somehow. As-is the GP wouldnt even notice the 20m investment that the overhaul of the launch system would cost. 
 

if they do add LSMs then they need to add a bowl section like accelerator. So that the GP will recognize it as “different” 

 

regardless CP is never getting rid of TTD simply bc Kingda Ka exists. 

You're absolutely right on the first point about the GP not noticing.  The only thing they could do to counter that is increase the launch speed to re-take the "fastest launch in the world" and then just add some trims at the near the top of the spike so the train doesn't crest too fast.  But that's not going to happen; it's getting a new queue and some walls around the brake run or its coming out.

Also, since when did Xcelerator's two additional turns count as a "bowl"?

And please explain your logic behind CP not removing Dragster because a taller and fast (albeit, worse) ride exists in a completely separate market?

[prozach626]

Dragster is a crowd pleaser as it is now. They're either going to keep it the way it is and needlessly redesign the queue, or get rid of it and put something in its place.

As people have said time and time again, the launch did not cause this issue. It could have been replaced years ago if Cedar Point wanted to do it. This incident was a freak accident. It could just as easily happen on any roller coaster near any path. Heavy high velocity objects with multiple moving and bolted on parts can shed lethal objects at any given time.

Cork Screw's loop over the midway.

Mavericks sweeping turn over the pond.

Millennium Force's passes near the queue and over the pathway tunnel.

Gatekeeper over the main entrance.

Raptor's cobra roll aimed at the pathway.

The freaking sky ride...

 

37 deaths and 113 injuries have been documented from vending machines since 1979. This is a terrible accident, but it doesn't need to change the way the world works. I can promise you the lake has the potential to be far more dangerous than any of the roller coasters at Cedar Point.

Pay out. Put reasonable measures in place (fences/nets), and move on. 

[_s3_]

Vending machines kill on average of 4 people and injure upwards of 1,700 per year in the US. Weird factoid I learned from an NEISS article years ago but your point is valid though.

I understand the need or desire to the move the queue because of this incident. No simple netting is going to stop a jagged piece of metal hurling at near 100mph, and even fencing / walls (unless concrete) wouldn't really do much except for create a larger shrapnel path if that metal were to fly directly into it.

That being said, this has happened once in it's nearly 20 seasons of operation and it's occurrence shouldn't be an average, but one time incident that is solved and eliminated as a possibility to reoccur.

I guess from a PR perspective moving the queue would be solving the potential problem from both the insurance and GP point of view, but I do think it's overkill and brings up the question "do they anticipate this happening again?"