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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 1989: Wicked Twister's permanent closure announced!

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Dragster ran all day Monday and Tuesday with no issues and the new FL+ line takes you right to the station. It was a walk on at different times of the day! Got 3 walk ons when it opened at 10am, some throughout the day, and 3 at night.

Millennium had the most issues, it was only Monday I got rides on it. Broken most Tuesday, Wednesday I believe all day, and Thursday it broke down 2x when I was in line.

Maverick was the most consistent, it ran flawlessly!

 

FL+ for FL price is only available in the park, yep, but again if you want it secured for your visit just get it now because it likely won't be available the day of. None of the employees had any rationale, even before I could complete my sentence "Do you sell Fa-" they quickly let me know FL+ was sold out. No you do not get a discount on Regular FL with your platinum pass.

Regular FL is still fine, like for example my last day on Thursday - Millennium and Dragster down all day. So FL+ only added Maverick and Steel Vengeance. I still crushed Magnum/Raptor/GK/Val/PowerTower/Skyhawk all day and rode Maverick when it had 30 minute waits and rode Steel Vengeance 3x between 9pm and 10pm [got in line at closing] it only had a 20 minute wait.

Valravn had the longest FL line, consistently spilling out to the midway making it a 30ish minute wait, mainly due to a slow crew. 

CP is definitely struggling with the lack of ops/good ops and I know a few ops whos crews can barely rotate during a shift because people don't show up/come in late/or they can't get enough staff scheduled. 

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2 hours ago, PKI Jizzman said:

Valravn had the longest FL line, consistently spilling out to the midway making it a 30ish minute wait, mainly due to a slow crew. 

CP is definitely struggling with the lack of ops/good ops and I know a few ops whos crews can barely rotate during a shift because people don't show up/come in late/or they can't get enough staff scheduled. 

Sounds like nothing has changed at Valravn since June when I went. I could have sworn I was a Six Flags park once we (finally) got up to the station to see the crew was having just a grand ol time doing anything and everything other than checking seats. They even insisted on making the entire platform watch one of the crew do a little dance before dispatching. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m all for having fun at work, but when you’re consistently stacking all three trains  for several minutes every cycle, maybe dial it down a notch. Slowest moving coaster line of the entire three day trip, hands down. 

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Rumors suggest something came off TTD (or a phone maybe) and hit someone.  EMS/ambulance was dispatched in the park and took them away.  Hope they are ok.

 

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Yikes, still relatively recent but this sounds bad.  Hoping for the best.   As if Cedar Point's relationship with Intamin wasn't already sour enough after Shoot the Rapids...

Edit: The park has confirmed that it was a part from the ride itself which struck the guest: 

https://sanduskyregister.com/news/337270/roller-coaster-part-falls-hits-guest/

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My daughter got hit by something that came off the yellow train on Millennium Force a few years ago.   She was bleeding a little bit from it but she still wanted to ride some more.    There was only a couple trains worth of riders that day so we were waiting in the station to board when the yellow train started up the lift hill.  It started making this really weird loud noise going up the lift hill which caused the workers heads to quickly look at the coaster.  The train finished going around the course but was immediately removed after that.  They were not running it the next day.

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Dang, what is going on with Intamin these days? I'm pretty trusting of these roller coaster manufacturers (even if they have the downtime due to what they're doing technologically) but the thing with El Toro and now this?

I've never really been worried about Intiman before and I still do trust them but parts flying off trains and into non riding guests and injuring them to this extent is pretty unacceptable.

I am sure Cedar Fair is being cautious about what they say but there should be more information about what is going on with these rides. Specifically, is this a manufacturer defect or park neglect?

It is quite unsettling that during year long closures parks didn't do due diligence and take advantage of downtime to maintain these rides as they should have been and honestly, they should be riding safely and better than ever. 

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Keep in mind the age of these rides, their environment, frequency of use, the load forces on parts, etc... 
It's obviously not a rollercoaster, but I run a canning line at a brewery. You'd be amazed what happens to a simple sealed bolt after a few hundred thousand actuations. Stress fracturing can often not show up until just before the part fails, rust can do some weird things internally, just friction can so some absolutely insane things. (for example, I go through 3 pairs of stainless bolts holding our keg machine ramp, these wear completely through just from vibration of 12k kegs a year)

Manufacturing defect? Naw, the level most of these firms operate at isn't that. 
Park neglect? At best - maybe. Could be a monstrous number of factors as many of these rides have sat still for longer than usual then suddenly put back into operation by teams that may be less experienced than usual. Unless they're completely stripping and rebuilding every single one of those trains every off season, it's really hard to catch some long term wears. 

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12 hours ago, mnreggie said:

Keep in mind the age of these rides, their environment, frequency of use, the load forces on parts, etc... 
It's obviously not a rollercoaster, but I run a canning line at a brewery. You'd be amazed what happens to a simple sealed bolt after a few hundred thousand actuations. Stress fracturing can often not show up until just before the part fails, rust can do some weird things internally, just friction can so some absolutely insane things. (for example, I go through 3 pairs of stainless bolts holding our keg machine ramp, these wear completely through just from vibration of 12k kegs a year)

Manufacturing defect? Naw, the level most of these firms operate at isn't that. 
Park neglect? At best - maybe. Could be a monstrous number of factors as many of these rides have sat still for longer than usual then suddenly put back into operation by teams that may be less experienced than usual. Unless they're completely stripping and rebuilding every single one of those trains every off season, it's really hard to catch some long term wears. 

I think you nailed it on the head, these seem more of issues of wear and tear and stress fractures (for El Toro and Dragster) more than anything else. I think that poses the question what is TTD's service life given the ride does produce some extreme forces to the train, structure, etc.  El Toro being that many of the parts are easier to replace it's not as much of a concern, but there's a reason after consistent use for decades some rides need re tracked and others torn down (Hulk and Volcano respectively). Of course it could be an issue with the parks inspection process, but I think what we're seeing has more to do with things getting old and worn out in high stress environments as you've pointed out. I'd expect new procedures to be put in place for PM before we see it operating again at a minimum.

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18 hours ago, mnreggie said:

Unless they're completely stripping and rebuilding every single one of those trains every off season, it's really hard to catch some long term wears. 

Most parks are stripping, NDTing, and rebuilding every train, every off season.

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20 hours ago, whackamole said:

Dang, what is going on with Intamin these days? I'm pretty trusting of these roller coaster manufacturers (even if they have the downtime due to what they're doing technologically) but the thing with El Toro and now this?

I've never really been worried about Intiman before and I still do trust them but parts flying off trains and into non riding guests and injuring them to this extent is pretty unacceptable.

I am sure Cedar Fair is being cautious about what they say but there should be more information about what is going on with these rides. Specifically, is this a manufacturer defect or park neglect?

It is quite unsettling that during year long closures parks didn't do due diligence and take advantage of downtime to maintain these rides as they should have been and honestly, they should be riding safely and better than ever. 

Did you really sign up just to come on here and trash Intamin or did you just conveniently forget about how an RMC Raptor also had a wheel fly off and towards guests literally weeks ago? Or any number of recent incidents involving a whole slew of manufacturers?

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On a happier note, fans of Midnight Syndicate should be excited that the masters of Halloween attraction music will be returning to HalloWeekends with an “encore performance” of their 2018 show “Conspiracy of Shadows”.  It will be nice to see them again after the absence of HalloWeekends last year.  (Source was Midnight Syndicate’s FB page)

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On 8/17/2021 at 4:14 AM, whackamole said:

Dang, what is going on with Intamin these days? I'm pretty trusting of these roller coaster manufacturers (even if they have the downtime due to what they're doing technologically) but the thing with El Toro and now this?

I've never really been worried about Intiman before and I still do trust them but parts flying off trains and into non riding guests and injuring them to this extent is pretty unacceptable.

I am sure Cedar Fair is being cautious about what they say but there should be more information about what is going on with these rides. Specifically, is this a manufacturer defect or park neglect?

It is quite unsettling that during year long closures parks didn't do due diligence and take advantage of downtime to maintain these rides as they should have been and honestly, they should be riding safely and better than ever. 

Dang, what's going on with you?

If an over 18 year old car would drive next to you and lose a part, would you really blame the manufacturer of the car? Wouldn't there be other people to talk to first?

You are writing that you don't know who is to blame for the defect, but start your post with "what is going on with Intamin these days?"? How can you do that if you don't know when the part was built, when it was security checked for last time, and, the most important, why it came loose? Would you really blame Intamin, Cedar Fair or a technician if the train hit a bird while descending causing the part to come loose? You don't know nothing - as much as I and the most other of us do - and go for a full rant on everybody including the argument diligence in your first post here?

Cedar Fair disassembles all of their coaster trains of all their coasters every offseason to every nut and bolt. Everybody following them on socials or going to Winter Chill Out knows that. Perhaps you can explain to us how they can work even better and how you can prevent loose parts months later.

The only correct thing you wrote is the fact that it should be unacceptable that guests are hurt in amusement parks. And I'm pretty sure that Intamin, Cedar Fair and the TTD technicians agree on that without a beep. I even would include the riding guests, too - which you excluded. I'm also sure that they act and think before they write. Because of this, they will make sure to exactly know why which part came loose because of which reason before they talk to the people. And even then, the involved people are the first ones to talk to. Not the ones unaffected by the accident.

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I think we all saw this coming. It is very unfortunate that the accident even happened to begin with. I'm really hoping for the best for that woman and her family.

I am just going to throw this out there. What do we think the possibility of a major overhaul is? It seems like Intamin's modern LSM technology can get the train to the same max speed in that length of track (I mean, have you seen Sandy's Blastin' Bronco's launch?), not to mention being significantly more reliable and honestly, probably safer as well given it has no moving parts. I wonder if the park is considering anything along these lines - such as replacing all the track but the tower with an entirely new system if that is even possible or plausible. I can't see them just removing the coaster entirely, because it is way too iconic and popular and significant, but I also don't know if they're willing to keep dealing with all the crap this coaster brings for much longer. I wonder when enough is enough.

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26 minutes ago, thrillseeker4552 said:

I think we all saw this coming. It is very unfortunate that the accident even happened to begin with. I'm really hoping for the best for that woman and her family.

I am just going to throw this out there. What do we think the possibility of a major overhaul is? It seems like Intamin's modern LSM technology can get the train to the same max speed in that length of track (I mean, have you seen Sandy's Blastin' Bronco's launch?), not to mention being significantly more reliable and honestly, probably safer as well given it has no moving parts. I wonder if the park is considering anything along these lines - such as replacing all the track but the tower with an entirely new system if that is even possible or plausible. I can't see them just removing the coaster entirely, because it is way too iconic and popular and significant, but I also don't know if they're willing to keep dealing with all the crap this coaster brings for much longer. I wonder when enough is enough.

Sandy's barely goes over 47 MPH...far from the 120 of Dragster. Besides, even if LSMs could get the speed up high enough, the launch would be a lot less forceful. Personally I'd rather them tear it down than neuter it like that, and TTD is/was in my top 10 steel coasters.

Also, the reports all indicated that something few off the train while it was on the return sides brakes, not the launch, so I'm not sure why anyone would be concerned with the launch.

 

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1 hour ago, Mike240SX said:

Sandy's barely goes over 47 MPH...far from the 120 of Dragster. Besides, even if LSMs could get the speed up high enough, the launch would be a lot less forceful. Personally I'd rather them tear it down than neuter it like that, and TTD is/was in my top 10 steel coasters.

Also, the reports all indicated that something few off the train while it was on the return sides brakes, not the launch, so I'm not sure why anyone would be concerned with the launch.

 

I was referring to the rate of acceleration. Sandy accelerates incredibly quickly for an LSM launch, from a dead stop. We already know Intamin's new LSMs can get 100+ mph - see Red Force in Spain. I'm not guaranteeing a retrofit is possible (I don't work for Intamin), but just making some inferences about modern LSM technology that in 2003 was out of question, hence why hydraulic launches were so popular at the time and are now pretty much phased out.

And yeah, this particular incident did not involve the launch, but as we know all too well, Dragster's launch is anything but reliable and is of course not going to last forever. I think if Cedar Fair were to do something like this (big, big if), it would be because of the entire ride's slew of issues top to bottom over the last 18 years and not just because of this single isolated incident.

This is all hypothetical anyway. I just know Cedar Fair is really cutting the crap with their high maintenance and unreliable attractions (see Volcano, Firehawk, Vortex, and their other recent ride removals, many of which were still very popular attractions), so it makes me wonder about the future of Dragster.

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52 minutes ago, thrillseeker4552 said:

I was referring to the rate of acceleration. Sandy accelerates incredibly quickly for an LSM launch, from a dead stop. We already know Intamin's new LSMs can get 100+ mph - see Red Force in Spain. I'm not guaranteeing a retrofit is possible (I don't work for Intamin), but just making some inferences about modern LSM technology that in 2003 was out of question, hence why hydraulic launches were so popular at the time and are now pretty much phased out.

And yeah, this particular incident did not involve the launch, but as we know all too well, Dragster's launch is anything but reliable and is of course not going to last forever. I think if Cedar Fair were to do something like this (big, big if), it would be because of the entire ride's slew of issues top to bottom over the last 18 years and not just because of this single isolated incident.

This is all hypothetical anyway. I just know Cedar Fair is really cutting the crap with their high maintenance and unreliable attractions (see Volcano, Firehawk, Vortex, and their other recent ride removals, many of which were still very popular attractions), so it makes me wonder about the future of Dragster.

I don't think it's completely crazy to assume something will change, just a question to what. Could be a line re-route (which given the coasters history probably should of happened sooner), which kept similar issues with Kingda Ka at bay.

I'm sure something will be different, just will take time to know what. The ride is very high in maintenance, is iconic, popular and has all of these positives and negatives surrounding it. Maybe a retrofit would fix some of these issues, maybe more can be done with what's already there to expand it even more.

It's an interesting situation which I'm sure will result in some kind of change or removal, time will tell though. I'm interested in what's to come, but I really hope the person injured pulls through and relatively speaking ends up being okay. I couldn't imagine how I'd be feeling if it was my loved one or even witnessing something so traumatic.

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9 hours ago, FeelTheFORCE said:

Not surprising, Cedar Point has tweeted out a statement saying that Top Thrill Dragster will be closed for the remainder of the season.

E9Luwc3WQAEpCTm.jpg

Just as I predicted. As soon as there is something to say, they'll say it (closure, regrets). All others things will be said and done when they are on time.

I feel sad for the family, but also for the ride and the OPs as it seems that it was an unpredictable event. But it's correct to call it closed until all is cleared out.

 

As for the LSM idea: I, personally, haven't ridden a LSM coaster with that kick in the a$$ TTD provides. Along with the theming, this is the thing you expect from a dragster themed ride, no matter how the final maximum speed is. I'm pretty sure if Cedar Point wants and pays an LSM lauch up to TTD speed, they'll get it. But 0-120 in 4.0 seconds with that initial kick in the a$$? I don't know. Iwould be all in if it would work.

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A source that has been impeccable in the past informed me some info about the investigation that's now been taken over by the state and what's taken place to date. They have been dead on re: everything at the park before, right down to Cedar Fair being delayed to opening last year because the state of Ohio had laid off the inspectors in the pandemic. What they told me shook my confidence immensely as far as the park's operation and maintenance is concerned and makes me strongly consider not renewing my season pass for the first time since I moved to the Midwest over a decade ago. If there is truth to it, and I believe there is, it fully explains why the Sandusky Register became so aggressive in demanding details (as they likely would have heard it too).

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7 hours ago, Pedrinho said:

Just as I predicted. As soon as there is something to say, they'll say it (closure, regrets). All others things will be said and done when they are on time.

I feel sad for the family, but also for the ride and the OPs as it seems that it was an unpredictable event. But it's correct to call it closed until all is cleared out.

 

As for the LSM idea: I, personally, haven't ridden a LSM coaster with that kick in the a$$ TTD provides. Along with the theming, this is the thing you expect from a dragster themed ride, no matter how the final maximum speed is. I'm pretty sure if Cedar Point wants and pays an LSM lauch up to TTD speed, they'll get it. But 0-120 in 4.0 seconds with that initial kick in the a$$? I don't know. Iwould be all in if it would work.

How long is red forces launch compared to dragsters?

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4 minutes ago, grsupercity said:

How long is red forces launch compared to dragsters?

Roughly the same. TTDs is exactly 160 meters (~180 yards) according to Google Earth ruler tool. Red Force is about 150 meters (~170 yards) using the same tool. But total acceleration ist much slower (TTD: 0-120 in 4.0 sec.; RF: 0-112 in 5.0 sec.).
Plus: I haven't ridden Red Force yet, but based on POVs and my knowlegde about the TTD kickstart, Red Force ist much tamer in the first second.

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Honestly, I've ridden both TTD and Red Force and the launches don't feel that different.  Maybe if you rode them back-to-back you might notice a difference, but the Red Force launch still packs plenty of punch.

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11 minutes ago, VegasBaby said:

Honestly, I've ridden both TTD and Red Force and the launches don't feel that different.  Maybe if you rode them back-to-back you might notice a difference, but the Red Force launch still packs plenty of punch.

Okay, thanks for the insight! As I said before, I'm pretty sure if Cedar Fair pays enough, they would get the Launch they want with LSMs.

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Why is everyone discussing CP potentially changing of the launch on Dragster when that had nothing to do with something coming off the train when it hit the brake run? 🤣

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