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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 2017: Top Thrill Dragster RETIRED!?!?!?

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They have already announced the future removal of the Cedars dorms next to Perimeter Rd. Whether or not they use this space for a ride is yet to be seen. As we've seen with Magnum, Mean Streak, and GateKeeper, they are not afraid of expanding the park's boundaries to find room for new rides. Eventually they will need to go the DisneyLand route and start replacing rides with new rides. But they still have time until they need to go that route.

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Newton's First law is that an object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I think that instead of going off what you think, you should read the article that was posted and more about how physics actually works.

 

I understand physics extremely well. I don't need to read any article on how physics works. My profession provides enough experience to speak these basic laws. And your comment about newtons first law is correct.It's inertia and that's what I what I am attempting to explain to you two (since you jumped in). Without getting into vectors, an object in forward motion remains in forward motion. So a train traveling down a straight piece of track will continue to do that until fraction, gravity, wind, etc. take over. Of course,no roller coaster is in a constant flat surface, so when the track the train is traveling on ascends uphill or into a loop, the train wants to the continue the previous forward motion which why you're forced into you seat creating positive G force. The intensity of that force depends on the speed and angle of the incline. Soooo...I'm not sure what your argument is here...Should I continue to explain inertia to a "coaster enthusiast"? Or are we going to keep debating about this Moon Coaster that floats along the track on it's up-stops?

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Maybe I'm a slight bit slow, but I don't think any coaster runs primarily on it's upstops or side frictions.

 

No. I didn't want to make it sound as if it did either, so if that was how you read it, I apologize.

 

The forces your talking about don't happen going uphill.

 

If you go uphill and turn hard to the right, the train doesn't merely run on the top wheels. Those side wheels - the ones that if not making good contact with the side rails produce the infamous "PTC shuffle" - are taking the brunt of it. And depending on the angle at which the train is headed and at what speed, it may indeed be running on underwheels in most of the train. Remember, a train is made of multiple linked cars with vehicles at the back being "pulled" to some degree by those to which it is attached ahead of it.

 

The surface has nothing to do with it, especially since all coasters run on a steel surface.

 

The surface *definitely* makes a difference. Otherwise, why would retracking on wood coasters ever matter?

 

The only way to reduce stress on a structure/point is increasing support and/or decreasing the amount of force applied to that point, which is what trims are doing by slowing the train.

 

That's not the only way to do it, and in many cases may not be the most effective due to the way something like a non-articulating train moves through curves or traverses hills. Changing banking, the radius of turns, drops, or pull outs - they can all make significant differences to the amount and location of stress that a ride takes from operation.

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Maybe I'm a slight bit slow, but I don't think any coaster runs primarily on it's upstops or side frictions.

 

No. I didn't want to make it sound as if it did either, so if that was how you read it, I apologize.

 

The forces your talking about don't happen going uphill.

 

If you go uphill and turn hard to the right, the train doesn't merely run on the top wheels. Those side wheels - the ones that if not making good contact with the side rails produce the infamous "PTC shuffle" - are taking the brunt of it. And depending on the angle at which the train is headed and at what speed, it may indeed be running on underwheels in most of the train. Remember, a train is made of multiple linked cars with vehicles at the back being "pulled" to some degree by those to which it is attached ahead of it.

 

The surface has nothing to do with it, especially since all coasters run on a steel surface.

 

The surface *definitely* makes a difference. Otherwise, why would retracking on wood coasters ever matter?

 

The only way to reduce stress on a structure/point is increasing support and/or decreasing the amount of force applied to that point, which is what trims are doing by slowing the train.

 

That's not the only way to do it, and in many cases may not be the most effective due to the way something like a non-articulating train moves through curves or traverses hills. Changing banking, the radius of turns, drops, or pull outs - they can all make significant differences to the amount and location of stress that a ride takes from operation.

 

Got you. I was referring to the steel rails as the running surface. Yes, the track condition does make a big difference. I just can't get with your explanation on the side friction wheels bearing most of the weight though. The main wheels are still carrying most of the load in a flat turn and definitely in a banked turn. If you change banking, turn radiuses, and drops that would be re-profiling and automatically includes structural changes so that wouldn't apply. If you're given the same track conditions, what I said before still applies. The Rattler, The Texas Cyclone, Riverside Cyclone and others were all re-profiled. Some coasters have cable supports to bear some of the structural load (The Beast, The Grizzly (KD), Wild One) to name a few, and this is the structural support I'm talking about without changing the ride. Most of these also include trims and/or hard mid-course brakes. Articulating training are pretty standard now. Even the PTCs articulate. The Millennium Flyer and Timberliner trains have individual cars which is why they are more agile along the track. I also believe they are lighter, but I'm not 100% sure.

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Velocity of the ride will determine where and how often the wheels ride or bounce along the track. This is why trims don't necessarily make a ride "smoother" as vibrations are not a linear calculation.

 

If we want a true coaster physics discussion, we should take it elsewhere.

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They have already announced the future removal of the Cedars dorms next to Perimeter Rd. Whether or not they use this space for a ride is yet to be seen. As we've seen with Magnum, Mean Streak, and GateKeeper, they are not afraid of expanding the park's boundaries to find room for new rides. Eventually they will need to go the DisneyLand route and start replacing rides with new rides. But they still have time until they need to go that route.

When did they announce this? I highly doubt the dorms will be around too much longer, but I haven't seen them say anything about the removal of them yet.

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Was going to buy a 2016 platinum season pass, but will not to go to the park until May. Looked on their site and does not have a process by date anywhere I can find. Does anyone know if there is one?

 

We didn't process ours till August this year at Kings Dominion so I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

Thanks, not sure how Cedar Fair does pass prices as I've only done Six Flags ones. May as well get one of the big vacation cost out of the way now. (Only waiting on parks 2016 schedules now. )

 

Edit: I know from operating them that Screamin' Swings don't operate 38 or below. ^^^^^^^^

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I'm thinking about going to CP this weekend. Any stores or websites selling them at a discount? I'm located in Indiana.

 

Also, at 40-low 50 degree temps, do all rides stay open?

 

 

With that forecast you'll be fine. I'd imagine it might take them a little while to get a few rides moving (the water dummies will get plenty of use) but once they get going it shouldn't dip below the point where they'd need to close anything. Every park is a little different but at parks Ike Dollywood and Carowinds it needs to be at 40 degrees for some rides to start running but once they start running it needs to fall into the mid 30's before they close. Some parks are a little different (Hershey is more strict for example and Great Adventure keeps dispatching until the ride valleys because Yolo) but that's the general rule for most B&M and Intamin coasters as far as most parks are concerned.

 

If it's windy and cold that could complicate things though so keep an eye on the wind forecast.

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They have already announced the future removal of the Cedars dorms next to Perimeter Rd. Whether or not they use this space for a ride is yet to be seen. As we've seen with Magnum, Mean Streak, and GateKeeper, they are not afraid of expanding the park's boundaries to find room for new rides. Eventually they will need to go the DisneyLand route and start replacing rides with new rides. But they still have time until they need to go that route.

 

Please cite a source on this. I want to stress that Commons fills up, and Cedars gets close to full. If Cedars comes down, another dorm will be going up simultaneously. Yes, they recently opened the 1600s, but that will not house everyone (not even 1/4th) in Cedars. Keep in mind that dorms are infrastructure that are vital to the operation of this park. A majority of employees live on site. They had wiggle room when Gold's came down, but I don't think they have that same slack with Cedars as all of the Gold's employees had to move into either Cedars or Commons.

 

I'm sure Cedars will eventually come down and a new dorm will be constructed off-point but as it stands today, Cedar Point can not house enough employees to operate without Cedars. I have friends currently living in Cedars who have not heard of its closing. This is why I'd like to see a source.

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If I remember right, as I don't deliberately save information like this, the Cedars will be around until at least 2018. I believe the dorms next to Corkscrew were taken out with the Breakers remodel and addition of new dorms down the causeway. I would imagine this means they plan to expand the off-site housing for employees for the opportunity to open up the park to a new resort or expanded area for rides and attractions.

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Unfortunately, Cedars doesn't take up as much space as many people think. According to Google maps, the complex has an area of 87730 square feet. By comparison, Rougarou's twister section (not counting the loop or lift hill) takes up 377400 square feet. By further comparison, sandcastle suites is an area of about 278880 square feet without parking. That means that sandcastle is ~3.2 times the size of the Cedars lot. The closest ride by size comparison seems to be snake river falls which is about the same square footage.

 

I don't think Cedar Point's new attraction will dictate the removal of Cedars as much as the fact that it is moving into complete disrepair will. Keep in mind it is also land locked by midway, Valraven, the marina, and Lake Erie. When Cedar Point is ready to build a new employee dorm (I don't know, when the roof caves in?), a new (probably flat) ride will come. Not the other way around.

 

If Cedar Point really needed space, they would probably move the RV park off point. It is a huge amount of space that can easily be moved virtually anywhere else fairly easily. There are also the Go-karts which are likely on their way out as well. It seems that almost everybody is scrambling to get rid of them. I can see that space being used for a Soak City expansion.

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Another comparison to make is the tower section of Breakers. That takes up only 33000sq ft. There is room over there for a small suites tower style resort. As it is, the original entrance, wings, and pool section take less that 60000sq ft. Obviously parking is an issue, but there is space over there.

 

Also, based on: http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm

 

Cedars dorms + infield 80,000 sq ft.

Rougarou twister/station/dive loop/transfer takes about 80,000 sq ft.

Valravn site takes about 120,000sq ft.

Sandcastle + pool 95,000sq ft.

Snake River Falls 30,000 sq ft.

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If you consider re-routing Perimeter Road, you could add 180,517 sqft with the removal of the Dorms. Considerable amount of space to work with.

 

The lot you removed is for famous daves and the marina and was usually quite full. Employees for Cedars are required to park in a lot down past pet check. You would be unable to 'reclaim' that space. The building directly next to famous daves is the HR building. I could see that eventually being moved elsewhere.

 

I think that when Cedar's bites the dust, it will be replaced with food/shopping/night options for a Marina revamp. This would do wonders for Cedar Point's resort feel. The area could really use a facelift as it is pretty ugly these days and could be a park highlight.

 

It would also resign the need to reroute the road. I do agree that if a ride were to be added they would certainly have reroute the roads.

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Went to Cedar Point recently and thought I would share some pictures of the Valravn staging area!

IMG_3838.thumb.JPG.f8f25e68765e9d940d5e45f32b3741c0.JPG

Lets move on to the Staging area

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Supports and track!

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Here's some track

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Supports and track

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Closeup-shot, so you can see the color more.

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Behind the fence

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Supports, Valravn signage

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A Season pass sign.

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Supports!

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I spy... the holding brake!

IMG_3864.thumb.JPG.2755e63fde5858e57d68e8833b2649cf.JPG

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Supports and a truck

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Track, supports, there's nothing more, thanks for viewing!

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