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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 1989: Wicked Twister's permanent closure announced!

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^Whoa Dude! Hold your horses with the strong lip there bud! Why can't you just pick a side and stick to it man? Why ya gotta be so Switzerland? You're on the internet! Where every person that has a keyboard, and is growing up in their parents basement has a voice. Nay! A Right! Yes! A right to scream at the top of their lungs all their petty feelings on the issue. It doesn't matter if no one cares what you say, because the internet has given you a voice! And damn it! You're gonna use it! Even if you do look like a tool or a troll. You're gonna tell the world in all your poor grammar and improper punctuation just how butt hurt you feel because someone has a different opinion than you. Ooooooooooooo! My pussy is chaffing because you like this! Ahhhhhhhhh! There's sand all up in my crack cause you don't like that!

 

Get on the bandwagon man, and pick a side! You disgust me! Where's my throw up imogi?!

 

Guy "With that said, Go Intamin!" Koepp

 

 

Thank you! That gif made my day! I loves me some Minion!

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^Whoa Dude! Hold your horses with the strong lip there bud! Why can't you just pick a side and stick to it man? Why ya gotta be so Switzerland? You're on the internet! Where every person that has a keyboard, and is growing up in their parents basement has a voice. Nay! A Right! Yes! A right to scream at the top of their lungs all their petty feelings on the issue. It doesn't matter if no one cares what you say, because the internet has given you a voice! And damn it! You're gonna use it! Even if you do look like a tool or a troll. You're gonna tell the world in all your poor grammar and improper punctuation just how butt hurt you feel because someone has a different opinion than you. Ooooooooooooo! My pussy is chaffing because you like this! Ahhhhhhhhh! There's sand all up in my crack cause you don't like that!

 

Get on the bandwagon man, and pick a side! You disgust me! Where's my throw up imogi?!

 

Guy "With that said, Go Intamin!" Koepp

 

 

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I would still take a Intamin that is kick A$$ over a B&M. I will take a little down time for something epic. That is all.

Moving on has any one tried out the Slaughter house that is new this year

 

We tried Slaughter House this year and it was meh. Lots of fake blood and guts, carcasses hanging around and one fairly decent stunt near the end. The line moved fairly quickly once they got it opened and the views of Millennium Force running made the wait tolerable.

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I think the problem with Intamin is that although they have the best designers in the world, their engineering is poor quality. They have great ideas, but they never efficiently execute them. The hydraulic launch for example was a great idea at the time yet most hydraulic launch coasters face considerable downtime. The accelerator trains were poorly designed as well, causing countless complaints about rider comfort (and don't get me started on the Skyrush trains). It seems that now oversees that they're learning from their mistakes, as they're back in the hydraulic launch game and they've redesigned their restraints to only have the lapbar portion. It's only a matter of time before we see them here again.

 

Also, I'm laughing at all of the B&M fanboys who seem to think that every mechanical thing Intamin touches will constantly be broken down. Yes, the Intamins here break down more often than other coasters, but as Robb once said have you ever seen the problems to this extent in Europe? The answer is no. They have more skilled mechanics who are better equipped to handle such complex rides, maintaining an Intamin really requires a specialized crew. The problem isn't that "Intamins are extremely unreliable", it's that "Intamins are extremely complex" and the U.S.' maintenance teams simply can't keep up right now.

 

Now, I'm not going to say anything else on this subject because that would belong in the "Intamin Drought" thread that popped up yesterday. Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion....

Truthfully, I never had a problem with Intamin restraints. Noting your comment on Skyrush, I've never really had a problem with its restraints (but that's just me). If anything, B&M tends to have more uncomfortable restraints for me. In particular, their wing/dive/invert restraints tend to be uncomfortable and very tight sitting in the brake run. Their older OSTRs were always a bit bulky, and caused some headbang on older models, and don't get me started on Nitro's lapbars before they took off the stupid knob thingy.

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I haven't had problems with CP restraints, with the exception that 2003 was the year of the staple (Dragster) seat check.

 

Skyrush, or Millennium Flyers, are the most uncomfortable restrictive restraints I've experienced.

 

(I'm also bothered during long drives if my waist-band seatbelt gets too tight. I find restrictions against my abdomen and thighs to be extremely uncomfortable.)

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I still think it's funny that people complain about those restraints. Sure they're not *super* comfy, but they aren't painful, you just feel pressure on your thighs. Anyone who whines about the restraints at this point needs to grow a pair, because Skyrush is a beast of a mega coaster.

 

Anywho, is there any new footer work being done? Any idea what that giant hole is for from a few pages back?

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I still think it's funny that people complain about those restraints. Sure they're not *super* comfy, but they aren't painful, you just feel pressure on your thighs. Anyone who whines about the restraints at this point needs to grow a pair, because Skyrush is a beast of a mega coaster.

 

 

The same people who complain "I want to go on something more thrilling than B&M Coaster 1." Are the same to complain about "Intamin Coaster 1 looks too intense for me!"

 

You can't please everyone. Especially whiny & entitled enthusiasts.

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I still think it's funny that people complain about those restraints. Sure they're not *super* comfy, but they aren't painful, you just feel pressure on your thighs. Anyone who whines about the restraints at this point needs to grow a pair, because Skyrush is a beast of a mega coaster.

 

Skyrush is a beast of a ride, but in 2012 my feet felt like they were going to turn purple by the end of the ride. Still an amazing coaster, but similar to a standup coaster, it has a an issue with comfort that does take attention away from the stellar track design. Because of this, I rank it lower than rides like El Toro, WC, Bizarro, etc...

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Quick question.....

 

If I have a platinum pass, is there a free upgrade on the fast lane from regular to fastlane plus?

 

There was last Saturday when I went. I bought my FL+ online, so I'm not sure if you can get the upgrade if you purchase it in the park. Also, I found this out the hard way, if you do get the FL+ upgrade, you have to redeem it at a ticket booth at a park entrance. The FL kiosks in the park will not redeem the tickets.

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Quick question.....

 

If I have a platinum pass, is there a free upgrade on the fast lane from regular to fastlane plus?

 

There was last Saturday when I went. I bought my FL+ online, so I'm not sure if you can get the upgrade if you purchase it in the park. Also, I found this out the hard way, if you do get the FL+ upgrade, you have to redeem it at a ticket booth at a park entrance. The FL kiosks in the park will not redeem the tickets.

 

 

Awesome!

Thank you for the info.

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I know I'm late to the party, but to be honest with you, I don't know if I like some of the elements on this coaster. It's a dive coaster with a zero-g roll, airtime hill, and dive loop. I've never ridden a dive coaster, but I can tell that dive loops, airtime hills, and zero-g rolls aren't the best elements to put on a dive coaster. It looked like it was just crawling through that zero-g roll on the animation video, and I feel like the trains weigh too much to go through those elements, especially towards the end of the ride when it starts to slow down. Immelmann's, Helix's, Splashdown's, and Overbanked Turns are really the only elements I could imagine feeling good on a dive coaster. It also kind of sucks that this coaster won't be having any theming, especially when compared to Griffon, SheiKra, & Krake.

 

Other than that, the first half of this coaster before the mid-course break run looks incredible, however I kind of wish it went under a tunnel on that first drop. At the end of the day, being a roller coaster enthusiast is all about having fun, & there's still no doubt that this roller coaster will be a really fun ride! Too many people out there, especially, ahem, ACEers & Coasterforcers, think that if a ride isn't "the best roller coaster in the world" that means it's a horrible ride. Even though this might not be a top 10 ride, I'm sure it will still be FUN!

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Ugh, I hate all these CP reliability arguments but, here's my input. First off, when I say a ride is down I mean its closed. Not necessarily a mechanical issue, but still an equally large problem when it comes to guest satisfaction.

So, lets start of with the intamins. Wilderness run, always open. I mean, there's no reason it would close not even sure why I put that there. Wicked Twister: Pretty reliable, I've personally never seen it go down for mechanical reasons but even when it does its usually not a whole day thing. It handles weather pretty well, it's one of the few rides that can run in the rain and wind due to no threat of roll backs. Millenium: Honestly this is probably one of the most reliable rides in the park. Mechanically, it has very few issues and goes down very little. Again it handles weather decently, wind is obviously a problem for it at 300 feet, but it also runs in rain due to the mag brakes(only two train ops). Maverick: This has more mechanical issues than millie, but it isn't down much more than any other ride in my experience. Weather is iffy on this one, Wind isn't a major issue usually but whether it runs in rain or not is kinda 50/50. TTD, Its impossible to say that this ride is reliable, but it has been improving recently. Mechanical issues are generally fixed in an hour or two, but the slightest breeze or drizzle and it'll be down for the next half hour at least. Weather isn't intamins fault, any ride of that size will half to shutdown immediately. Major breakdowns do happen more on this ride than any other in the park.

 

Alright, Now for the B&M's. Gatekeeper: This ride must be made of twigs or something. The ride goes down for 5-10 min. all the time, not sure what the problem is. Also the chain has snapped/broke/malfunctioned twice in its 3 year life. Weather wise, its the worst in the park. Wind and rain take this down faster than dragster does often. Raptor: Mechanical issue's aren't usually a big issue, but Its quite common to see it stuck on the lift for anywhere from 10-30 minutes. Weather wise its a little slower to close in wind and rain than gatekeeper but still one of the first in the park. ScoobyDoo: Goes down for floor related issues pretty often. Only about 15 minutes for the most part. I'm not sure about weather, I haven't noticed any real patterns. Valravn: Obviously this is just a prediction, but It'll probably be accurate. Goes down do to floor getting stuck often. Wind and rain shut it down immediately.

 

Really, both them have a decent amount of downtime. It honestly depends on the day you go and whether you catch the park on a good day or not. If you really want to decide a definitive most reliable, its arrow. The five of them are open pretty much constantly, and at a higher capacity.

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^ Hard to market a 105 foot tall GCI when you have the coasters Cedar Point has.

 

^^ You see things through an Intamin tilted lens, my friend.

 

^^^ Those seem to be the only elements they put on Dive Coasters, for the most part. Just glad Cedar Point is getting a coaster with more of those elements than any other of it's type. It will be interesting to read the reviews, I expect them to be mostly positive with a slightly mixed reaction.

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Ugh, I hate all these CP reliability arguments but, here's my input. First off, when I say a ride is down I mean its closed. Not necessarily a mechanical issue, but still an equally large problem when it comes to guest satisfaction.

So, lets start of with the intamins. Wilderness run, always open. I mean, there's no reason it would close not even sure why I put that there. Wicked Twister: Pretty reliable, I've personally never seen it go down for mechanical reasons but even when it does its usually not a whole day thing. It handles weather pretty well, it's one of the few rides that can run in the rain and wind due to no threat of roll backs. Millenium: Honestly this is probably one of the most reliable rides in the park. Mechanically, it has very few issues and goes down very little. Again it handles weather decently, wind is obviously a problem for it at 300 feet, but it also runs in rain due to the mag brakes(only two train ops). Maverick: This has more mechanical issues than millie, but it isn't down much more than any other ride in my experience. Weather is iffy on this one, Wind isn't a major issue usually but whether it runs in rain or not is kinda 50/50. TTD, Its impossible to say that this ride is reliable, but it has been improving recently. Mechanical issues are generally fixed in an hour or two, but the slightest breeze or drizzle and it'll be down for the next half hour at least. Weather isn't intamins fault, any ride of that size will half to shutdown immediately. Major breakdowns do happen more on this ride than any other in the park.

 

Alright, Now for the B&M's. Gatekeeper: This ride must be made of twigs or something. The ride goes down for 5-10 min. all the time, not sure what the problem is. Also the chain has snapped/broke/malfunctioned twice in its 3 year life. Weather wise, its the worst in the park. Wind and rain take this down faster than dragster does often. Raptor: Mechanical issue's aren't usually a big issue, but Its quite common to see it stuck on the lift for anywhere from 10-30 minutes. Weather wise its a little slower to close in wind and rain than gatekeeper but still one of the first in the park. ScoobyDoo: Goes down for floor related issues pretty often. Only about 15 minutes for the most part. I'm not sure about weather, I haven't noticed any real patterns. Valravn: Obviously this is just a prediction, but It'll probably be accurate. Goes down do to floor getting stuck often. Wind and rain shut it down immediately.

 

Really, both them have a decent amount of downtime. It honestly depends on the day you go and whether you catch the park on a good day or not. If you really want to decide a definitive most reliable, its arrow. The five of them are open pretty much constantly, and at a higher capacity.

 

What?

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Matt Ouimet has totally changed the direction of Cedar Point from super-unreliable Intamin rides, to more reliable slighly-but-not-too innovative B&Ms.

Although I find these big B&Ms generally boring: they do look nice, are easily marketable, high capacity, and much more reliable than the Intamin contraptions they were building before. Can't say I blame him, I wouldn't want to run a business where thousands of people are pissed off every day and many demanding refunds if I didn't have to. I am a little surprised though that they are building a dive machine at this height, I think that if any park is eventually going to break the 500 foot mark it would be CP and a dive machine seemed like a safe and reliable way to do that (and there is plenty of space where Mean Streak is now).

 

 

Super unreliable? Please list example of exactly what you are talking about and compare them to rides from other manufacturers that have never ever had problems.

Dick Kinzel stated in an interview with NPR that building Top Thrill Dragster was the worst decision he ever made as CEO. The ride was SBNO for half the summer the first year it was open, major disappointment. Can you imagine the amount of people that were not only upset but also went to guest relations and demanded refunds? Maverick was built the during the season in 2006 and still didn't open with the park the following year. Had to be re-profiled before it opened and was extremely unreliable for a long time. That Shoot the Rapids ride had a huge accident that made national news. Xcelerator has been SBNO more times than I can count. Intimidator 305 had to be reprofiled and rarely ever ran more than 1 train when it was new because the wheels were literally melting. Wicked Twister (and all the other impluses at the time) had to add supports. Both TTD and Xcelerators cables have frayed while the ride was running causing major PR nightmares and Millennium Force's cable has snapped while it was operating as well (although I can't really verify if this is Intamin or CF's fault, probably a mix of both). I haven't been to CP in years but last time I was there Maverick, TTD, and MF all opened late and all 4 Intamin's broke down while I was in line for them (Maverick broke down at least 10x during the day).

 

It's well known in the industry that Sandor kept giving Kinzel big discounts on new rides because of how unreliable the last ride they built was. It doesn't surprise me at all that now that they have a new CEO they have gone a much safer route.

 

So no other ride by any other manufacturer has ever had any kind of lengthy downtime for any reason.... it's always only Intamin rides?

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Well....just about every intiman in the park has had some major issues at one point or another. Can't really honestly say that about any of the other coaster companies in the park.

 

The only problem I see with the B&M coasters, is that they tend not to like the wind very much. I don't think it's so much the rides issue, but more of the fact that they are right on lake erie.

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Well....just about every intiman in the park has had some major issues at one point or another. Can't really honestly say that about any of the other coaster companies in the park.

 

The only problem I see with the B&M coasters, is that they tend not to like the wind very much. I don't think it's so much the rides issue, but more of the fact that they are right on lake erie.

 

But a lot of these rides for Intamin at Cedar Point were new at the time or pushing the boundaries, I think people forget when they see a new B&M somewhere like Cedar Point or elsewhere that there have been a few others of that type to iron out a lot of the bugs. I remember when B&M tried something new with their flying coaster. I was at Alton towers a few months after AIR first opened and I remember a lot of reports of it being temperamental leading up to that and sure enough it was closed when we drove up to try it out. It was on and off throughout the day and luckily we were there when the line opened but it was 4 hour waits after that with a lot of down-time.

Another example with AT would be the smiler that had a lot of issues which was new and that was Gerstlauer.

 

I think it's a little unfair to say it's only Intamin at Cedar Point when their rides were trying new things as opposed to the other companies building things that had been done before.

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New or not, they still had/have a lot of downtime compared to the other coasters in the park and that's a fact. The rides they built are top notch, but just not very reliable. I'm not dogging intiman, but just stating facts. The B&M coasters have not had nearly as much downtime as intiman rides have. I understand the whole pushing the envelope thing, but downtime is downtime.

 

I would assume as a park owner, your going to want a thrilling AND reliable ride for your money. Lot's of downtime is not good for the parks image, and bottom line.

 

With that being said, millennium force is still my favorite ride in the park.

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So no other ride by any other manufacturer has ever had any kind of lengthy downtime for any reason.... it's always only Intamin rides?

 

I honestly can't think of any coasters in that park that have. As bad as TTD is, Shoot The Rapids might be worse, which is saying a lot. The Huss Giant Frisbee has had a lot of issues, but Huss is also a shell of itself today because their quality dropped so dramatically in the 2000s.

 

Someone actually asked the maintenance guys this ("Are the Intamin rides less reliable?") at the tour I was on during the Winter Chill Out this year, and they flat answered "Yes." But then stopped, backtracked only slightly, and said, "Well, yes, but they're also more complex," followed by a description of Dragster's launch/braking system.

 

RE: wind - usually if Raptor is down due to weather, I see MF and Magnum down too. A couple years ago around opening day, the weather was atrocious on that Sunday and practically everything was valleying and no coasters ran. It took until around 12 noon for the park to remember that Wicked Twister's raison d'etre was to valley, and that was the first coaster up. Both WT and Maverick often do run in less fantastic conditions among the big rides because they have launches that help push the trains through windy conditions. Everything else though....well, that's why if the forecast looks even so-so, I think about finding something else to do other than go to the Point.

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I think it's a little unfair to say it's only Intamin at Cedar Point when their rides were trying new things as opposed to the other companies building things that had been done before.

 

 

When you spend $25 million dollars on a coaster, it should at least work. Dragster was down more than it was open during its first years. Wicked Twister needed additional bracing and welding to just stay operational, no to mention a reduced launch. Maverick was delayed by needed to be re-profiled. Then we have i305, with a temporary trim fix and then a total re-profile within its first year standing. Then you have STR with boats designed too large too fit.

 

Cedar Fair apparently gets the half-assed engineered Intamins.

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