Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[Philrad71]

Today is the last day of daily operations, Dinosaurs Alive, and Witches Wheel. A lot to say goodbye to.

 

 

Was there any kind of farewell ceremony for Witches Wheel?

 

I think that there may have been something involving the eye of newt and toe of frog, wool of bat and tongue of dog.

 

Or nothing at all...

[TurnOfTheCentury]

I dunno, I found the SV trains and restrains to be absurdly comfortable (but I am 6 foot and of "normal" proportions).

 

I shudder (in excitement) at the thought that Storm Chaser has more intense bucking than SV, given that the final run into the final break on SV seems full of "awkward bucking." (I also think Iron Rattler is less intense than SV.)

[larrygator]

Don't lie to me. You used extreme height as an explanation for why people are complaining about Steel Vengeance. Not sure if that stellar logic or the assertion that Bill doesn't understand what it's like to be tall is more hilarious.

 

I don't even understand how some of these arguments start

 

coasterbill asked why people are complaining about the restraints.

 

invertalon stated why he did not like the restraints, he stated his point of view based on his opinion.

 

ytterbiumanalyst you implied that invertalon used extreme height to justify why others are complaining. I read it that invertalon was only stating his opinion, and that others 6ft 6in and taller would agree. He never implied that all the complaining was due to tall people.

 

As numerous people have stated throughout this argument they is no one perfect restraint for every person and every coaster. Taller people and shorter people will argue about the same restraint. Rounder people and thinner people will argue about the same restraint. There is not one size fits all because we are not all the same size.

[Airboss]

Speaking of restraints, can we just talk about how quick the SV crew is at checking them? Their procedure is so quick, and it means that not only one, but TWO employees check your restraint in a timeframe of less than a minute. I was extremely impressed at how quickly the line moved, considering only two trains were running.

[Pseybert]

These comments about Steel Vengeance having uncomfortable restraints are hilarious. What are you people talking about?

 

Sorry man, that comes across as pretty condescending. RMCs murder my thighs. It's not the type of pain that I can tolerate easily in the name of "fun", either, like on Magnum and some other coasters. They are so painful that I basically can't think of anything else besides getting off of the ride. This is not an exaggeration.

 

In my original comment that started this discussion, I noted how Steel Vengeance's trains were a godsend for having the handlebars and allow me to gain leverage and lessen the pressure on my legs. I am able to enjoy SV where as I have not been able to find enjoyment in any other RMC. As I said before, I hope that they add these bars to the others.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

Don't lie to me. You used extreme height as an explanation for why people are complaining about Steel Vengeance. Not sure if that stellar logic or the assertion that Bill doesn't understand what it's like to be tall is more hilarious.

 

I don't even understand how some of these arguments start

 

coasterbill asked why people are complaining about the restraints.

 

invertalon stated why he did not like the restraints, he stated his point of view based on his opinion.

 

ytterbiumanalyst you implied that invertalon used extreme height to justify why others are complaining. I read it that invertalon was only stating his opinion, and that others 6ft 6in and taller would agree. He never implied that all the complaining was due to tall people.

 

As numerous people have stated throughout this argument they is no one perfect restraint for every person and every coaster. Taller people and shorter people will argue about the same restraint. Rounder people and thinner people will argue about the same restraint. There is not one size fits all because we are not all the same size.

Seems fair to me. I weighted heavily the sentence "If you're not 6 ft 6 in you wouldn't understand," as though the complaints are coming from those 6 ft 6 in or taller, and that is absurd. I can accept that it was just a poorly worded sentence, as without it the tone is quite different.

[coasternut]

I agree, but it's hard to tell the disabilities. The group should be limited to the disabled person plus 1 if help is needed to get in and out of the train. I've seen groups of up to 12 suck up all the seats. That's not right! If more need to ride together, the disabled person waits until the family comes though the line and they are joined at that time. This is really getting out of control. It's not just Cedar Point either.

 

According to Cedar Point's policies, the disabled guest and only up to three other people can enter through the alternate entrance, the rest of their party has to wait in the regular queue, AND if they all want to ride together the disabled guest and their companions have to wait until the rest of the party is on the platform before entering at all. Also, the policy states that disabled guests' parties are given a specific return time to board in every circumstance. I would also assume that the disabled guest isn't allowed to ride three times in a row with different party members accompanying them, either.

 

https://www.cedarpoint.com/help/accessibility

 

Now, whether this stuff is actually strictly enforced or not, that's anyone's guess.

 

I noticed this during my visit to CP last week. A lot of families of 4 or 6 with perfectly able bodied and well behaved tweens had these passes as well and had no noticeable disabilities (maybe autism). These families (I only noticed two physically disabled rides (one with a cane, the other with crutches and a boot for his foot over a couple days) used them a lot on SV and TTD (when it was open) and several rows were blocked off for these disabled park visitors to ride. On Monday night when exiting the park after riding TTD past closing I noticed the four guys (one with a cane) that had used the disability pass on TTD for several rides earlier all shaking hands with the guy who had the cane and saying things like, "it was great meeting you...thanks again," then the guy with the cane went to his car in one of the disabled spots near the front and the other three continued to their car. Not sure if there was anything to this, but it reminded me of the WDW disability escort scandal a few years ago.

 

See this is my point about the ADA passes. I'm guessing it sounds like those 3 guys never met this guy before but "skipped the lines" because of him.

[coasternut]

Despite the hype I honestly feel like Steel Vengeance is (gasp) the least aggressively violent RMC I've ever been on aside from maybe Goliath and New Texas Giant. The transitions are all really fluid and flow well and it seems like it was designed for the masses more than the others (though it does this while delivering a massive assload of airtime).

 

It's an amazing ride because the elements are all awesome and it's easily my favorite RMC, but I feel like if Steel Vengeance is too much for you then something like Lightning Rod or even Storm Chaser (which is loaded with violent awkward bucking which Steel Vengeance has essentially none of) might literally kill you.

 

I really, absolutely, think its' the design of the restraints/trains tho. at least for me.

 

I mean, Magnum has a ton of bucking, and it's never really caused me to get off it hurting.

 

and tho I agree with you on Texas Giant (which I just rode for the 1st time three days ago, and found the 2nd half of the ride to be slow and meandering). . it and iron Rattler have the older version of the restraints (yeah, I realize a different train manufacturer too), but the restraints don't bother me at all.

 

They put in or activate a new mid course brake on NTAG. I rode it earlier in the season and the second half was great. I was there a few weeks ago, and that brake ruined the second half of the ride. LOOSE THE BRAKE!

[ytterbiumanalyst]

I don't think I agree with that. If the brake is loose, wouldn't it be in danger of falling off?

[coasternut]

^ Sorry - disable that mid course... Typo.

[bill_s]

Are SV's handlebars the same as TTimbers? I couldn't find pics with anything but the fairly useless grab straps. Anyway, TT certainly can get uncomfortable to me in the second half and I've taken to grabbing the lapbar itself. The handles are so far forward they don't help and in a way almost increase the forces. I've also ended up pushing myself off the seat into the bar at times, holding myself up by my legs through the positive Gs. Maybe this might help someone.

[bert425]

Are SV's handlebars the same as TTimbers? I couldn't find pics with anything but the fairly useless grab straps. Anyway, TT certainly can get uncomfortable to me in the second half and I've taken to grabbing the lapbar itself. The handles are so far forward they don't help and in a way almost increase the forces. I've also ended up pushing myself off the seat into the bar at times, holding myself up by my legs through the positive Gs. Maybe this might help someone.

 

not the same as TT's

 

if I'm recalling correctly. . . these are more like joysticks (like the top of a ski pole grip), and they are something you can grab on to on either side close to the "shin-guard" on the restraint.

 

here's a pic from Robb's media report, before they updated the restraints.. they put the "joysticks" close to where the "handle" is, but there are two on each seat.

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by bert425

[thrillrider]

These comments about Steel Vengeance having uncomfortable restraints are hilarious. What are you people talking about?

 

Not really.

It all depends on your body type/hight/build. I personally dont have an issue with them, but know people that do.

[KPfan]

The grips could be in a better position. They are too far forward and point straight up. Not sure if all of the seats are like this but it's difficult for both riders to grip the handles without busting their knuckles together.

 

And I agree with those who have some discomfort with the leg restraints. I can tolerate it but it's not the most enjoyable. Especially towards the back with your hands up.

[TurnOfTheCentury]

They can dispatch as soon as they know the train on the course will clear the first brake block before the train on the lift reaches the top of the hill.

 

Or even better, if it's a variable lift motor, then can dispatch almost whenever and the lift hill will adjust the speed until it clears the block, or worst case scenario, stop the lift until it clears the first block. The run time from the top of the lift to the first set of brakes is about 1:25, so 1:45 dispatches are probably the best case scenario, meaning about 800 pph (if in fact the mid-course brake isn't a block).

 

But has that been confirmed by anyone at CP or RMC that the mid-course cannot be a block (it appears to have two different sets of brakes on it)? I am confused why it wouldn't be designed to be a block? Indeed, the theoretical capacity advertised by CP is 1,200 pph and that number wouldn't make sense -- even if those numbers are frequently perfect-case aspirational figures that are rarely (if ever) hit, I think they usually don't list impossible numbers, and anything north of 800-ish pph would indeed be impossible without that mid-course block.

[Airboss]

They can dispatch as soon as they know the train on the course will clear the first brake block before the train on the lift reaches the top of the hill.

 

Or even better, if it's a variable lift motor, then can dispatch almost whenever and the lift hill will adjust the speed until it clears the block, or worst case scenario, stop the lift until it clears the first block. The run time from the top of the lift to the first set of brakes is about 1:25, so 1:45 dispatches are probably the best case scenario, meaning about 800 pph (if in fact the mid-course brake isn't a block).

 

But has that been confirmed by anyone at CP or RMC that the mid-course cannot be a block (it appears to have two different sets of brakes on it)? I am confused why it wouldn't be designed to be a block? Indeed, the theoretical capacity advertised by CP is 1,200 pph and that number wouldn't make sense -- even if those numbers are frequently perfect-case aspirational figures that are rarely (if ever) hit, I think they usually don't list impossible numbers, and anything north of 800-ish pph would indeed be impossible without that mid-course block.

 

It is a variable lift motor. When I was there, the train on the lift sped up considerably the second the other train cleared the final brake run. This obviously confirms that the mid course isn't a block, although the park has never mentioned it.

 

If you take a look at the official POV, you are correct, there are two sets of brakes. The first set is magnetic brakes, which trim the train, but they're unable to stop them. I noticed that when we got trimmed, we were trimmed at the start of the mid course, where the magnetic brakes are. The second set of brakes are the friction brakes, which can stop the train. These brakes would define a block section.

 

Neither RMC or CP have spoke of the Mid Course, they generally stay quiet about the specific issues they're facing with a ride. If I had to speculate, I'd assume that either they ran into a programming issue while trying to program the mid-course, or they're just afraid that the train simply won't have enough speed were it to stop on the mid course, and they simply don't want to risk it. Either way, we're looking from the outside in, there's no way for us to know what's going on.

 

If anyone is heading to the park this weekend, please keep us updated on the status of the ride. Today was the first day since May that Steel Vengeance hasn't operated (excluding the day before CoasterMania), and they still have the rest of the week. I hope they're able to get this thing up to full capacity soon, it's my #1 coaster and I hope more people can experience it.

[X2coasterfreak]

If anyone is heading to the park this weekend, please keep us updated on the status of the ride. Today was the first day since May that Steel Vengeance hasn't operated (excluding the day before CoasterMania), and they still have the rest of the week. I hope they're able to get this thing up to full capacity soon, it's my #1 coaster and I hope more people can experience it.

 

Maybe the park being closed has something to do with it not operating today...

[southpuddle]

Cedar Point ride ops test the blocking systems of all coasters as part of their opening procedures. If the SV crew has not been stopping a train at the MCBR, then it is not currently a functioning block.

[Comeagain?]

What I've heard (from a podcast I think) is that trains won't reliably complete the course coming from a stop on the mid course. So rather than use it as a block and potentially stop there, it simply doesn't drop a train off the lift until it knows there's somewhere for the train to go, without stopping on the mid course. Which is a perfectly reasonable solution given how fast they've been able to load and check a train, and how long that lift hill is. Especially if you don't go up it "full" speed.

[bgtlover]

If anyone is heading to the park this weekend, please keep us updated on the status of the ride. Today was the first day since May that Steel Vengeance hasn't operated (excluding the day before CoasterMania), and they still have the rest of the week. I hope they're able to get this thing up to full capacity soon, it's my #1 coaster and I hope more people can experience it.

 

Maybe the park being closed has something to do with it not operating today...

I'm pretty sure it was understood that they knew this since yesterday (Labor Day) was the last day of daily operations.

[Airboss]

^ Yeah, that's what I meant. I mean that the park has pretty much done whatever they could to keep it open daily, and yesterday was the first day the park was closed since May, meaning it is their first opportunity to work on Steel Vengeance without having to worry about keeping it open. I'm guessing most of the progress will be done during the days where the park is closed.

[coasterbill]

But has that been confirmed by anyone at CP or RMC that the mid-course cannot be a block (it appears to have two different sets of brakes on it)? I am confused why it wouldn't be designed to be a block? Indeed, the theoretical capacity advertised by CP is 1,200 pph and that number wouldn't make sense -- even if those numbers are frequently perfect-case aspirational figures that are rarely (if ever) hit, I think they usually don't list impossible numbers, and anything north of 800-ish pph would indeed be impossible without that mid-course block.

 

Sometimes things are *designed* a certain way but things don't always go according to plan because there are peaks and valleys in the design process. Mostly the latter...

[ViperGTS500]

On Monday while I was in line for SV, they had 3 trains going and noticed they were always dispatcheing the next train right after the other left the MCBR.

[Airboss]

For Steel Vengeance to hit the advertised 1,200 riders per hour, they would need to dispatch a train every 72 seconds. Based on James C's POV, 72 seconds after dispatch you enter the outward banked turn, meaning they would need to consistently dispatch when the train ahead hits the outward. The only issue with this is that from the outward, it takes 70 more seconds to reach the final brake run, while from dispatch, it only takes 50-60 seconds for the train to reach the top of the lift. This means that they simply cannot dispatch at this interval unless the mid-course is a functioning block.

[coasterbill]

This just popped up on my news feed. Staffing levels during Halloweekends should be a sight to see.

Edited September 5, 2018 by coasterbill