Password121 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Yes, Six Flags did in fact sign a contract with RMC for their products starting with the Texas Giant. The Roar I-box refurb is the last ride on the contract, and is the last ride SF can purchase from them at a discounted price. The purpose of this was that the first coasters were a gamble for SF, so RMC gave them a discount for giving them a chance. I don't see any reason why B&M would ever want to do something like this, considering they have no shortage in demand and have a proven track record. Source is a Q&A from RMC's Facebook page months back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboy Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Even with the RMC coasters, it's a unique, custom installation each time. If they build 3 a year for the same customer, the redundancy in the process between them all is going to be minimal. I can almost buy that argument with the Sally and S&S products, but you're still talking about manufacturing less than 5 in a year for the same customer. That's not bulk in my opinion and you're still looking at a scale of production where there's very little room for discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCF Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Just my strictly amateur opinion: You buy things in bulk that are manufactured in bulk at a relatively low cost: toilet paper, soda, ink pens, yogurt, etc. You don't buy in bulk $15-20 million dollar pieces of equipment like roller coasters that each have their own unique location, design, engineering process, and fabricated parts. They're priced according to how much they cost the seller to design, manufacture, and build. My guess is that there's very little room for "buy 2, get the next half price!" bulk discounting. Good points, though what Six Flags has done with RMC, Sally, and now appears to be doing with S&S begs to differ. I feel all the similar rides have to do with each park being Six Flags. As they are owned by the same corporation, they all most likely trade secrets and have an inner connection with each other concerning new rides. One or two parks will talk about a ride they are putting in, and the others hear about said ride and think they should get one as well since the park would talk about how well they worked with the manufacturer, if it is a good ride. Basically like a group of teenage girls. "Omg, look at this Larson Looper I'm gonna get!" "Why would you get that? Aren't they everywhere?" "But it is SO cheap and is a thrilling ride! Everyone talks about thrill rides these days." "Maybe I should get one too?!" "I'm already asking daddy if I can get one." "At least it's something for the season." "I already ordered one online!" "We are going to be the best parks at the Golden Tickets this year!" Just to clarify, 'daddy' is corporate office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP Maverick Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 ^Okay, here's my counter-argument then. You say that Cedar Point (and large budget amusement parks in general) are 3-5 years ahead in planning stages at all times. I agree; that's a generally accepted fact. If you've seen the Devin Olson Gatekeeper documentary (which you should watch, it's a great piece), you'll remember Rob Decker saying Gatekeeper went from nothing to essentially an agreement within the span of IAAPA 2011. It's arguable whether or not this is the whole truth, but for discussions' sake we'll assume it is (it's cutting it close but still possible). If they had a multi-ride deal with B&M for Gatekeeper and Valravn (as you're arguing) then that means the outline and agreement/contract was signed during IAAPA 2011 as well. If that's the case, Rob's story was false. He says he asked Walter (of B&M) what they have that's new, and they gave him the wing coaster. The Dive machine has been on the table since 1998. If they're designing each coaster chronologically, why would they design Gatekeeper and Valravn at the same time, within the span of a few days? I don't buy that. As for all your previous examples using Cedar Point (namely with Arrow and Intamin) it becomes even more apparent that this is impossible. The best reason that comes to mind is that Dick Kinzel was inspired by a 1988 Arrow 150+ foot tall non-inverting steel coaster for Magnum's design. That deal would have had to have been signed in 1986 or earlier for Iron Dragon to be a possibility, which alone makes Magnum impossible since the concept didn't come out until at least 1987. With the Intamin projects in the 2000's, it's safe to assume that MF, Wicked Twister and Dragster would've been in the same deal. I do remember reading that talks for Maverick began as soon as Dragster opened. This deal would have had to have been signed in 1999 or earlier. At this point in time, Intamin had never made a hydraulic launch coaster (the first being Xcelerator in 2002). I have no proof of this, but don't you think Intamin wouldn't have signed a deal for the tallest coaster in the world with launch technology that had yet to be proven successful until at least after they determine if Millennium Force was successful? And was Cedar Point really ready to invest $60 million in Intamin coasters at once (MF, Wicked Twister and Dragster) before seeing they even worked? From my perspective, it seems that Cedar Fair waits until a manufacturer's product is a success before singing the papers for the next one. My proof? Wouldn't we have seen *something* else from Intamin after I-305 and Shoot the Rapids, which were conveniently built in the same year? I think it's safe to assume they had been taking all of these projects one at a time, only signing up for the next upon the previous products' success. It would seem a little fishy that I-305 and Shoot the Rapids would be two lone projects on their own after this supposed chain of Intamin rides across the chain in the 2000's. Sorry for the long, nerdy post, everyone I'm curious. It seems like you are arguing that a work contract cannot exist because the rides weren't all designed together. Why can't the work contract simply be: over the next X years, we anticipate installing Z rides. We'd like to contract you to work on those. It says nothing about what rides or when, simply putting Company A on the books for the future. The discount wouldn't be for the structure, it would be for the contractor's time. And it may only be a $10k "discount" so that is irrelevant. Why wouldn't you want to book a contractor if you know they are good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Password121 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 ^That would make sense, but then how can you explain that once Cedar Fair got some seriously faulty rides from Intamin in 2010 they just happened to be the last rides they purchased from Intamin? And with Arrow before Iron Dragon and Magnum, Dick Kinzel didn't even think of doing anything like Magnum until 1988 (correct me if I'm wrong as I don't remember the exact ride that inspired Magnum, but its in Japan), so would he have just said "some ride that nobody knows about yet"? As I said I don't believe they design and engineer the ride when the contract is signed but I'm sure they would have an idea of what they're getting themselves into and a price point. That wouldnt have been possible if there was an Arrow contract. Going back to a point I had made a few days ago, in a separate interview with Rob Decker from a site that I can't mention here, Rob said that for Fury they went out to different manufacturers for the contract, and B&M came out on top. If they had a multi ride contract with B&M there would be no "shopping around" to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoinItForTheFame Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The last few pages of "contract talk" has made me need a drink. Hmmmm... Now I feel like we need a new drinking game. . . Anytime the word "contract" is said in this thread, take a drink. We have some catching up to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP Maverick Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The last few pages of "contract talk" has made me need a drink. Hmmmm... Now I feel like we need a new drinking game. . . Anytime the word "contract" is said in this thread, take a drink. Does "contractor" count, or just "contract"? And I'm not saying they always have a multi ride contract in place, just that they may contract a specific contractor to make more than one ride. It may be easier to get things done quickly if you have that in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Anytime the word "contract" is said in this thread, take a drink. Good thing there's a liquor bottle in my desk drawer (and a hospital down the street). I'm ready! And I'm not saying they always have a multi ride contract in place, just that they may contract a specific contractor to make more than one ride. It may be easier to get things done quickly if you have that in place. Alright, off to an aggressive start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP Maverick Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Anytime the word "contract" is said in this thread, take a drink. Good thing there's a liquor bottle in my desk drawer (and a hospital down the street). I'm ready! And I'm not saying they always have a multi ride contract in place, just that they may contract a specific contractor to make more than one ride. It may be easier to get things done quickly if you have that in place. Alright, off to an aggressive start. I take my drinking games seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestreak Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I interrupt your regularly scheduled arguing about contracts, *takes drink* to bring you this Valravn construction update. Another piece of track and another support. Wouldn't surprise me if they put another piece of track or two in by the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorneyKid14 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I interrupt your regularly scheduled arguing about contracts, *takes drink* to bring you this Valravn construction update. Another piece of track and another support. Wouldn't surprise me if they put another piece of track or two in by the end of the day. *takes drink for everyone that complains about the photo update* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrillrider Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 As far as contracts between coaster companies goes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestreak Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I interrupt your regularly scheduled arguing about contracts, *takes drink* to bring you this Valravn construction update. Another piece of track and another support. Wouldn't surprise me if they put another piece of track or two in by the end of the day. *takes drink for everyone that complains about the photo update* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainUnknown Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 In terms of drinking games, who'd get more drunk? A person who was drinking for every "Boat" mention or "contract" mention? Though at the end, we'd all look like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestreak Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 In terms of drinking games, who'd get more drunk? A person who was drinking for every "Boat" mention or "contract" mention? Though at the end, we'd all look like this: Actually how about we just take a drink everytime someone posts anything on this forum. We could all turn into dumb acers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoinItForTheFame Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 At this rate Valravn will be done in no time!! Anyone else think they might get the next support, and next two track pieces put into place today?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil009 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Some quick thoughts on the Raptor issue: This is an example where our sue-happy society actually makes us LESS safe. Cedar Point should put signs on the fence that say something along the lines of DANGER: HIGH SPEED TRAINS with a picture of the clearance between the ground and the train so at least if someone does hop the fence, they know to look around before crossing under the track. Current signage says it's a restricted area but doesn't explicitly state the danger (like a "warning: high voltage" sign does). I'm not saying this should be necessary, but it might help and would cost virtually nothing to implement. The only reason CP isn't doing this is because it would be an admition of liability and open them up to getting sued. Which is really dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoast Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 ^ No just stop. Your suggestion is what is really dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 "Omg, look at this Larson Looper I'm gonna get!" "Why would you get that? Aren't they everywhere?" "But it is SO cheap and is a thrilling ride! Everyone talks about thrill rides these days." "Maybe I should get one too?!" "I'm already asking daddy if I can get one." "At least it's something for the season." "I already ordered one online!" "We are going to be the best parks at the Golden Tickets this year!" Just to clarify, 'daddy' is corporate office. Do you hear yourself when you talk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP Maverick Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Some quick thoughts on the Raptor issue: This is an example where our sue-happy society actually makes us LESS safe. Cedar Point should put signs on the fence that say something along the lines of DANGER: HIGH SPEED TRAINS with a picture of the clearance between the ground and the train so at least if someone does hop the fence, they know to look around before crossing under the track. Current signage says it's a restricted area but doesn't explicitly state the danger (like a "warning: high voltage" sign does). I'm not saying this should be necessary, but it might help and would cost virtually nothing to implement. The only reason CP isn't doing this is because it would be an admition of liability and open them up to getting sued. Which is really dumb. Those warning signs don't always work out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I think they were hgih when they made that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterLine Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 We're down to only 2 supports left to lift. Track work should fly to completion now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCF Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 "Omg, look at this Larson Looper I'm gonna get!" "Why would you get that? Aren't they everywhere?" "But it is SO cheap and is a thrilling ride! Everyone talks about thrill rides these days." "Maybe I should get one too?!" "I'm already asking daddy if I can get one." "At least it's something for the season." "I already ordered one online!" "We are going to be the best parks at the Golden Tickets this year!" Just to clarify, 'daddy' is corporate office. Do you hear yourself when you talk? You missed the joke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillies2 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 New drinking game, drink everytime someone posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterLine Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Looks like they're done for the day. Lots of new supports, and a couple more pieces of track. Today's High Resolution Update Daily Constructon Progress Updates in High Resolution Construction Progress as of February 25, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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