Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[bluestreak]

I know it sounds a little ridiculous, but I REALLY feel like a Polorcoaster could fit quite well there... We lost our observation table when they put in gatekeeper, and it would be a great addition a park that basically has every other type of ride already!

 

A man can dream right?!

 

Not going to lie, I had actually mentioned this to my partner last night. We were talking about the STR removal, and what would be a good replacement for it. The first thing that came to mind was a Polorcoaster. The footprint is small enough it might just fit in the old STR location, and they could build one tall enough to reclaim the "Worlds tallest roller coaster" record.

 

Not saying that Cedar Point is going to build one, but I could see one fitting in well in the old STR location, as well as being a good fit for the park.

 

Especially if they get rid of Dinosaurs Alive.

 

Like the initial poster said... a man can dream.

[ImNotOneOfYou]

I know it sounds a little ridiculous, but I REALLY feel like a Polorcoaster could fit quite well there... We lost our observation table when they put in gatekeeper, and it would be a great addition a park that basically has every other type of ride already!

 

A man can dream right?!

 

Not going to lie, I had actually mentioned this to my partner last night. We were talking about the STR removal, and what would be a good replacement for it. The first thing that came to mind was a Polorcoaster. The footprint is small enough it might just fit in the old STR location, and they could build one tall enough to reclaim the "Worlds tallest roller coaster" record.

 

Not saying that Cedar Point is going to build one, but I could see one fitting in well in the old STR location, as well as being a good fit for the park.

 

Compared to what CP has done, Polercoasters seem like the cheap way to claim the title for the tallest coaster. The world's highest drop seems less marketable, but to me it seems like the route Cedar Point would take.

[bluestreak]

I was looking through my pictures from yesterday and came across this one. Honestly one of my favorite photos I've ever taken.

[DorneyKid14]

I know it sounds a little ridiculous, but I REALLY feel like a Polorcoaster could fit quite well there... We lost our observation table when they put in gatekeeper, and it would be a great addition a park that basically has every other type of ride already!

 

A man can dream right?!

 

Not going to lie, I had actually mentioned this to my partner last night. We were talking about the STR removal, and what would be a good replacement for it. The first thing that came to mind was a Polorcoaster. The footprint is small enough it might just fit in the old STR location, and they could build one tall enough to reclaim the "Worlds tallest roller coaster" record.

 

Not saying that Cedar Point is going to build one, but I could see one fitting in well in the old STR location, as well as being a good fit for the park.

 

Especially if they get rid of Dinosaurs Alive.

 

Like the initial poster said... a man can dream.

 

 

Not if, WHEN yhey get rid of it.

[cedarpointguru]

I'd like to see a low flying flying coaster go there. Here's a concept I thought of.

[DoinItForTheFame]

^ I'd LOVE to see a flying coaster built there!

 

I feel like either a Polercoaster, or a flying coaster would be the best fit. They both provide something the park does not have yet. I just don't see a flying coaster having as much appeal to the GP as a Polercoaster might. I think the Polercoaster has more of a "wow" factor that the park might be looking for.

 

Then again, I could be (and most likely am) wrong... I mean the last two coasters were a wing-coaster and a dive machine, neither of which I would think had that "wow" factor. But obviously they do!

[bluestreak]

Although I love the idea of a flying coaster at CP I'm not sure that the operations would be quick enough for a park that gets as crowded as CP. Flying coasters definitely have longer dispatch times than most coasters so the lines would be pretty bad on crowded days.

 

Of course a Polar Coaster has very small trains so the capacity on that wouldn't be great either.

 

That open space definitely has some interesting possibilities.

[Password121]

I don't see a polar coaster to be honest. The park already has Dragster which draws just as many people today as it would if Kingda Ka were never built. Building something 100 feet taller, but much slower and with even lower capacity isn't something the park needs. I also don't think they would gamble with any new concepts in terms of new attractions for a little while longer.

 

I do remember seeing Dick Kinzel quoted that his biggest mistake he ever made was Top Thrill Dragster. Ouimet seems to be much more experience over records (all their recent records have been tried and true formulas) oriented than Kinzel was, so that's pretty telling. I jjust don't know that the risk/reward is there. I'm sure a lot of park visitors still think Dragster is the tallest and fastest, so why do something so risky when you can do another tried and true B&M (or even RMC because they're getting to the point of "tried and true," IMO).

[bluestreak]

Does anybody here know how reliable RMCs are? The only one I have ridden was Goliath and that did not break down once during the 3 days I was there, but I'm wondering how the other ones are.

Edited February 22, 2016 by bluestreak

[Dom497]

I do remember seeing Dick Kinzel quoted that his biggest mistake he ever made was Top Thrill Dragster.

 

False. He said Disaster Transport was his biggest mistake.

[coasterkid124]

A lot of people forget that Polercoasters aren't really meant to be built in theme parks. They're meant for tourist attractions and large cities. The estimated cost for the Orlando one is 50-60 million. That's a huge investment for one park, and isn't really wise either. A flyer is much more likely at this point, which I'm not a big fan of.

 

I hope that CF goes elsewhere for their next big addition to the park. I really want to see something unique and different, not another cookie cutter. It's okay for a park to add one here and there, but CP has really been known for additions that set them aside from the rest.

[ajfelice]

I do remember seeing Dick Kinzel quoted that his biggest mistake he ever made was Top Thrill Dragster.

 

False. He said Disaster Transport was his biggest mistake.

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4990536

 

Take a listen around 10:00. Kinzel does acknowledge that Disaster Transport was one his worst business decisions, but he thinks Top Thrill Dragster eclipsed DT as his worst business decision as of 2005. Did his mind ever change? I'm not quite sure.

 

My personal opinion is that Cedar Point/Matt Ouimet currently think that Top Thrill Dragster is worth it's investment along with its downtime that is still much higher than normal. If they are willing to continue to put money into the ride with annual maintenance and new paint, and continue to operate it 13 years since it opened, I'm guessing they see its value. Maintenance wise, from speaking to mechanics on similar Intamin Accelerator coasters in different parks, Intamins are not easy to get parts for, and this type of train continues to have issues with chassis cracks and whatnot. These accelerator coasters are no cheap date.

[shivtim]

I do remember seeing Dick Kinzel quoted that his biggest mistake he ever made was Top Thrill Dragster.

 

False. He said Disaster Transport was his biggest mistake.

 

The direct quote was that Top Thrill Dragster was the "dumbest decision" he ever made as CEO. It's a maintenance nightmare and was closed for about 1/2 of its first season, and it's incredibly expensive to run on a daily basis. "That's far and away the most expensive ride we have in the park to run."

[FeelTheFORCE]

I don't see a flying coaster coming to Cedar Point. I think parks like Cedar Point usually sign package deals with one manufacturer over a span of few years. Hence why it's been all B&M for the past 4 years (and all Intamin from 2000-2007). Personally, I think CP's deal with B&M will be done after Valravn, if that's the case. They most likely signed a 3-project deal, 5 or so years ago, and we've reached the end of that contract. I'd be willing to bet we don't see another coaster, period, for a few years even. They are probably currently in negotiations on the major coaster project(s) to appear next.

 

It also looks like they are gearing up for a major Soak City expansion with the changes happening in Challenge Park. I'm sure they have long-term plans for STR's spot, but I bet we don't see what they are for at least 5 years, probably more. Ripcord moving in that area will probably be the only thing for now. Over the next few years we'll probably see some small, but much needed improvements (a-la the Gemini plaza)...I wouldn't be surprised if we even see the long-awaited dark ride on the top of the arcade sometime soon.

 

Regarding TTD, perhaps from a maintenance and financial standpoint Kinzel is right (and kind of expected), but even 13 years later, EVERYONE still talks about and marvels at that thing. I still get the, "have you ever ridden this before?!" from random strangers all the time while waiting in line. And if it's down for a period during the day, the moment it start testing again, people start running. I think half of it is the experience itself, and how close the people watching can get. CP knocked that aspect of the ride out of the park.

Edited February 25, 2016 by FeelTheFORCE

[cedarpointguru]

Um, Cedar Point's 150th anniversary is soon approaching for 2020 and I can guarantee you that Cedar Point will come out swinging with a MAJOR coaster. So no, you're wrong, we will see a coaster in the next five years.

 

And I doubt that Cedar POINT made a deal with B&M, I think it's Cedar FAIR that made a deal with B&M, and that includes Banshee, Behemoth, Leviathan, Intimidator, Diamondback, Fury 325, GateKeeper, Valravn, and possibly more to come throughout the chain.

[FeelTheFORCE]

Um, Cedar Point's 150th anniversary is soon approaching for 2020 and I can guarantee you that Cedar Point will come out swinging with a MAJOR coaster. So no, you're wrong, we will see a coaster in the next five years.

 

And I doubt that Cedar POINT made a deal with B&M, I think it's Cedar FAIR that made a deal with B&M, and that includes Banshee, Behemoth, Leviathan, Intimidator, Diamondback, Fury 325, GateKeeper, Valravn, and possibly more to come throughout the chain.

 

I said A FEW years. 4 years from now would sound about right. It was 6 between Maverick and Gatekeeper, and 4 between TTD and Maverick.

 

You could be right, it probably was Cedar Fair, but larger parks like Cedar Point might be their own entity. And I'm not sure I'd group Behemoth in with these. Was Cedar Point negotiating pre-Behemoth to build a Dive Machine with vest restraints? Considering the first Wing Coaster didn't appear until 2011? I highly doubt it. Even so, with that many coasters built already, that's an even stronger indication that this deal is probably close to an end. That's 8 coasters, 9 if you count the Rougarou transition. There really isn't much more to build, and all of the major parks have been hit with at least one project...some multiple. The ONLY thing remaining that I can think of is if Kings Island builds a Giga. I feel like if a flying coaster was in the cards, one would have been built by now in one of those nine projects.

Edited February 22, 2016 by FeelTheFORCE

[cedarpointguru]

Sorry, I thought you said we won't see another coaster for at least five years, not few. Regarding any deal with B&M, I don't think it'll stop if it's working. Those 8 coasters (9 if you count Rougarou) are at 4 of the chain's 11 parks. If the formula is working why stop? The first that comes to mind is a much needed invert for Valleyfair, or hyper for Michigan's Adventure (we all know that's never going to happen lol). Again, I don't see B&M and Cedar Fair stopping their relationship anytime soon, especially when you consider that their relationship dates back to 1994 with Raptor, when we saw Mantis, Talon, Patriot, Hydra, Silver Bullet, and probably a few others long before these newer 8 came along.

[FeelTheFORCE]

I don't have a source, nor do I remember where I read it, but I do remember seeing once that Cedar Point is basically 5 years ahead at all times. Whatever we are seeing now was put on the table and agreed upon roughly 5 years ago, give or take. Which would make sense, considering Gatekeeper opened in 2013. I'm still inclined to believe that Cedar Point is treated as their own entity, considering the rest of the chain was building other brands in the 2000s, while CP was all Intamin. I hope I'm wrong, as I love more new coasters as much as anyone, but I believe this contract is coming to an end and Cedar Point will be moving in a different direction from B&M in the next few years. Valravn seems like a great "epitome coaster" to end the contract with.

[cedarpointguru]

Right, but why is it that you can't have multiple contracts with multiple coaster manufacturers at the same time? It seems like Cedar Fair works with Intamin, B&M, CGI, Mac, Zemperla, and Gerstlauer simultaneously, and while they were adding the four Intamins at Cedar Point, as well as Xcelerator, and Steel Venom from Intamin, they were adding B&M's such as Talon, Hydra, Patriot, etc. and Gerstlauer's Spinning Dragons and Timberland Twister (back when they operated Camp Snoopy at MoA), and so on.

 

I'd love to see Cedar Fair work with other manufactures. I want to see them work with Intamin on more tried and true designs, and I'd love to see what RMC can do to some of Cedar Fair's poor wooden coasters. But I hope they continue to work with B&M, whether that's more conversions of their remaining floorless coasters, to a hyper at MIA, and an Invert at Valleyfair, to a Flyer at Cedar Point, to a giga at Kings Island and Knott's Berry Farm (if they ever manage the room for it). I'm not saying these have to be added simultaneously with no other manufacturer getting a chance, but I hope these make their way in the next decade or so.

 

As far as years for planning goes, I believe that Cedar Fair decided on the wing coaster at 2011's IAAPA, and 2013 Gatekeeper opened, so only two years. Don't forget though, when Cedar Point clears land or closes a ride/coaster, it tends to mean that they will use that site for the next major coaster in 2 seasons time. i.e. WWL --> Maverick, Disaster Transport --> GateKeeper, GoodTime Theater --> Valravn. I think it's a safe bet that Challenge Park will be used for a Soak City expansion for 2017, but it's also a safe bet to say that STR site will be used for 2018/2019. And I'm sure you're right on that Cedar Point plans 5 years ahead, but that doesn't mean that they only plan on one coaster every 5 years. Cedar Point normally adds coasters every two or three years. It's been that way since the 70's but there are periods where they go 5 or so years without adding one.

Edited February 22, 2016 by cedarpointguru

[FaithPlus1]

A lot of people forget that Polercoasters aren't really meant to be built in theme parks. They're meant for tourist attractions and large cities. The estimated cost for the Orlando one is 50-60 million. That's a huge investment for one park, and isn't really wise either. A flyer is much more likely at this point, which I'm not a big fan of.

 

I hope that CF goes elsewhere for their next big addition to the park. I really want to see something unique and different, not another cookie cutter. It's okay for a park to add one here and there, but CP has really been known for additions that set them aside from the rest.

 

 

Well said

[Ed Farmer]

Does anybody here know how reliable RMCs are? The only one I have ridden was Goliad and that did not break down once during the 3 days I was there, but I'm wondering how the other ones are.

 

CP's RMC has garbage reliability. I don't think I've ever seen it actually take riders.

[FaithPlus1]

"FeelTheFORCE"

It also looks like they are gearing up for a major Soak City expansion with the changes happening in Challenge Park. I'm sure they have long-term plans for STR's spot, but I bet we don't see what they are for at least 5 years, probably more. Ripcord moving in that area will probably be the only thing for now. Over the next few years we'll probably see some small, but much needed improvements (a-la the Gemini plaza)...I wouldn't be surprised if we even see the long-awaited dark ride on the top of the arcade sometime soon.

 

 

In "my opinion" soak city is not the best investment for CP. I have never spent any time in Sc and never plan to. It's Ohio, so if you want to go on a water slide, there are other places. I think Kings Island benefits far more than CP with their water park and if there were no water park, I don't think anyone would care. After all, they do have plenty of indoor water parks in the area.

[FeelTheFORCE]

Right, but why is it that you can't have multiple contracts with multiple coaster manufacturers at the same time? It seems like Cedar Fair works with Intamin, B&M, CGI, Mac, Zemperla, and Gerstlauer simultaneously, and while they were adding the four Intamins at Cedar Point, as well as Xcelerator, and Steel Venom from Intamin, they were adding B&M's such as Talon, Hydra, Patriot, etc. and Gerstlauer's Spinning Dragons and Timberland Twister (back when they operated Camp Snoopy at MoA), and so on.

 

I'd love to see Cedar Fair work with other manufactures. I want to see them work with Intamin on more tried and true designs, and I'd love to see what RMC can do to some of Cedar Fair's poor wooden coasters. But I hope they continue to work with B&M, whether that's more conversions of their remaining floorless coasters, to a hyper at MIA, and an Invert at Valleyfair, to a Flyer at Cedar Point, to a giga at Kings Island and Knott's Berry Farm (if they ever manage the room for it). I'm not saying these have to be added simultaneously with no other manufacturer getting a chance, but I hope these make their way in the next decade or so.

 

I wasn't talking about the rest of Cedar Fair, I'm talking strictly Cedar Point. What's added at Knott's, MiA, etc. has zero effect on Cedar Point...except maybe Kings Island to a certain degree. If it did, then I305 wouldn't exist. These "package deals" have existed at CP since at least Corkscrew in 1976, with the only exceptions being Mean Streak (a giant project in itself, and who would want to add two of those, let's be honest), Wildcat (unless you consider Jumbo Jet), and Woodstock Express. Every other coaster since that year has been part of a package deal with either another coaster or another ride from the same manufacturer.

 

Corkscrew (1976) & Gemini (1978)

Jr Gemini (1979), Demon Drop (1983), & Avalanche Run (1985)

Iron Dragon (1987) & Magnum (1989)

Raptor (1994) & Mantis (1996)

 

And the rest we all know. Flat rides are a different story, but when a coaster is involved, you can usually expect something else from the same manufacturer in Cedar Point's case. It's just how the business works.

 

As far as years for planning goes, I believe that Cedar Fair decided on the wing coaster at 2011's IAAPA, and 2013 Gatekeeper opened, so only two years. Don't forget though, when Cedar Point clears land or closes a ride/coaster, it tends to mean that they will use that site for the next major coaster in 2 seasons time. i.e. WWL --> Maverick, Disaster Transport --> GateKeeper, GoodTime Theater --> Valravn. I think it's a safe bet that Challenge Park will be used for a Soak City expansion for 2017, but it's also a safe bet to say that STR site will be used for 2018/2019. And I'm sure you're right on that Cedar Point plans 5 years ahead, but that doesn't mean that they only plan on one coaster every 5 years. Cedar Point normally adds coasters every two or three years. It's been that way since the 70's but there are periods where they go 5 or so years without adding one.

 

We don't know that for sure, but which is why I said give or take. I agree that Cedar Point usually adds coaster quicker than 5 or 6 years. Honestly, I was pretty surprised they went that long between Maverick and Gatekeeper. But again, that's most likely because their deal with Intamin was over, and they were deciding what to add next. Remember that they consider offers from all types of manufacturers, which takes a ton of time to go over all of them, narrow down the ones they want, get final approval, etc. This was all happening when they were changing CEOs as well, which probably didn't help speed up the process.

Edited February 22, 2016 by FeelTheFORCE

[FeelTheFORCE]

In "my opinion" soak city is not the best investment for CP. I have never spent any time in Sc and never plan to. It's Ohio, so if you want to go on a water slide, there are other places. I think Kings Island benefits far more than CP with their water park and if there were no water park, I don't think anyone would care. After all, they do have plenty of indoor water parks in the area.

 

I don't visit it that much either, but it would be a great addition. It is extremely outdated, and Cedar Point is a "resort" destination, so the families would eat that right up. I actually want to go back soon because it's been like 10 years since I've been in Soak City.

Edited February 22, 2016 by FeelTheFORCE

[DirkFunk]

"FeelTheFORCE"

It also looks like they are gearing up for a major Soak City expansion with the changes happening in Challenge Park. I'm sure they have long-term plans for STR's spot, but I bet we don't see what they are for at least 5 years, probably more. Ripcord moving in that area will probably be the only thing for now. Over the next few years we'll probably see some small, but much needed improvements (a-la the Gemini plaza)...I wouldn't be surprised if we even see the long-awaited dark ride on the top of the arcade sometime soon.

 

 

In "my opinion" soak city is not the best investment for CP. I have never spent any time in Sc and never plan to. It's Ohio, so if you want to go on a water slide, there are other places. I think Kings Island benefits far more than CP with their water park and if there were no water park, I don't think anyone would care. After all, they do have plenty of indoor water parks in the area.

 

It's about competing with those indoor water parks for dollars and getting people to stay longer. A water park that isn't trapped in the late 1990s would only help in that regards.