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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

p. 2030 - Top Thrill 2 announced!

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This will be an amazing ride. Certainly top 10 at CP!

 

But does the simplistic layout and transitions leave a little left wanting? I know (i'm British) Oblivion etc is far far less complicated. But I think my favourite rides where when I couldn't quite remember what came next. Maybe now I'm even checking up on this site has made riding roller coasters less fun. Too each their own I guess as I'm sure knowing the exact speed/angle/g-force is what gets the juices flowing for others.

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Cedar Point posted this photo on Twitter with a caption that said: "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

 

CadDY_8UAAA9g7c.jpg:large

 

Such a beautiful shot!

 

Also, Tony posted these photos on Twitter:

 

CaaP4S4VIAEZ7f3.jpg

 

CaaP4TMVIAESso7.jpg

 

CaaP4TQUkAAodha.jpg

 

CaaP4UaVIAARQ8d.jpg

 

I can't get over how high off the ground that MCBR is!!

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Why does B&M feel the need to waste track on a second vertical dive that's smaller and shallower than the first when something more interesting could go there? Also it requires the MCBR to be on 100% all the time.

 

I can't really think of many things you would put directly after a MCBR besides a drop. I mean, the drop is kind of what gives the coaster it's speed back after a MCBR slows the train down. If this were Intamin, they could put a launch after the MCBR... If the MCBR were not already 130+ft off the ground.

 

I'd assume B&M puts a second almost vertical drop after the MCBR on Dive Machines because you know... the coaster is a DIVE MACHINE... and Vertical Drops are kind of what Dive Machines are all about.

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Hey guys, I think we have an arrival

 

P.S. IMO the track is not 90 degrees after the MCBR because the track would have to curve out more at the bottom, something that the trains probably could not handle at such a short height, or maybe wear and tear?

image.thumb.png.00308db60a79e824b271b96518206f6d.png

Edited by blakelemay23
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^^Yeah I agree, the coaster needs to drop or launch after the mid course since it needs the momentum to return to the station even if it needs to stop completely in the midcourse. Might as well go with another steep one, the only other options would be a launch which is ridiculous, a slow, boring and uninspired downward helix or a drop. Might as well make it a good one...

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^^Yeah I agree, the coaster needs to drop or launch after the mid course since it needs the momentum to return to the station even if it needs to stop completely in the midcourse. Might as well go with another steep one, the only other options would be a launch which is ridiculous, a slow, boring and uninspired downward helix or a drop. Might as well make it a good one...

 

A good one?? Eh, I don't think I'd go that far... Remember it really isn't all that steep.

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Hey guys, I think we have an arrival

 

P.S. IMO the track is not 90 degrees after the MCBR because the track would have to curve out more at the bottom, something that the trains probably could not handle at such a short height, or maybe wear and tear?

 

G-forces are the answer for the not-vertical question. The trains are much heavier than on a ride like Maverick. Just think about how much you get ejected on Maverick's first hill. Now imagine similar forces on a train as large as a dive machine. That's why rides with vertical, near vertical, and past vertical drops always have single to three car trains. It's also why the actual vertical drop on dive machines have a holding chain at the top. (While dramatic effect is awesome, it came about to solve the g-force problem with such a steep drop. Similarly, Griffon went floorless because of train weight, not for added thrill. The added thrill was just a bonus). It's also why modern hypers and giga's keep the curve going right until the pullout, with very little straight section the way old Arrow coasters used to.

 

Then again, at this point in engineering, these "standards" are overcome more and more. Just look at how steep the drop is on Mako for example. They are really pushing the limits of engineering steep angles on longer trains these days.

Edited by DrachenfireOP
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^^Yeah I agree, the coaster needs to drop or launch after the mid course since it needs the momentum to return to the station even if it needs to stop completely in the midcourse. Might as well go with another steep one, the only other options would be a launch which is ridiculous, a slow, boring and uninspired downward helix or a drop. Might as well make it a good one...

 

A good one?? Eh, I don't think I'd go that far... Remember it really isn't all that steep.

 

I'm sure it'll feel steep when you're on it but whatever, sorry to interrupt the complaining.

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Hey guys, I think we have an arrival

 

P.S. IMO the track is not 90 degrees after the MCBR because the track would have to curve out more at the bottom, something that the trains probably could not handle at such a short height, or maybe wear and tear?

 

G-forces are the answer for the not-vertical question. The trains are much heavier than on a ride like Maverick. Just think about how much you get ejected on Maverick's first hill. Now imagine similar forces on a train as large as a dive machine. That's why rides with vertical, near vertical, and past vertical drops always have single to three car trains. It's also why modern hypers and giga's keep the curve going right until the pullout, with very little straight section the way old Arrow coasters used to.

 

Then again, at this point in engineering, these "standards" are overcome more and more. Just look at how steep the drop is on Mako for example. They are really pushing the limits of engineering steep angles on longer trains these days.

Thats what i was trying to say, thanks for putting it in better words!

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Why does B&M feel the need to waste track on a second vertical dive that's smaller and shallower than the first when something more interesting could go there? Also it requires the MCBR to be on 100% all the time.

 

I can't really think of many things you would put directly after a MCBR besides a drop. I mean, the drop is kind of what gives the coaster it's speed back after a MCBR slows the train down. If this were Intamin, they could put a launch after the MCBR... If the MCBR were not already 130+ft off the ground.

 

I'd assume B&M puts a second almost vertical drop after the MCBR on Dive Machines because you know... the coaster is a DIVE MACHINE... and Vertical Drops are kind of what Dive Machines are all about.

 

Things more interesting than another vertical dive: A rollover into a dive loop, a steep swooping drop with a tight transition at the top, a double down. There's three and I'm not even a roller coaster designer. Most importantly, none of these things would require a full stop at the MCBR. B&M would go a long way towards making these already short rides feel more substantial by not deviding them in half.

 

Imagine a lower MCBR with no stop, a steep drop with lots of floater air, into a series of ground-level switchbacks (with a tunnel or two). Now there's the start of a real second half.

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Why does B&M feel the need to waste track on a second vertical dive that's smaller and shallower than the first when something more interesting could go there? Also it requires the MCBR to be on 100% all the time.

 

I can't really think of many things you would put directly after a MCBR besides a drop. I mean, the drop is kind of what gives the coaster it's speed back after a MCBR slows the train down. If this were Intamin, they could put a launch after the MCBR... If the MCBR were not already 130+ft off the ground.

 

I'd assume B&M puts a second almost vertical drop after the MCBR on Dive Machines because you know... the coaster is a DIVE MACHINE... and Vertical Drops are kind of what Dive Machines are all about.

 

Things more interesting than another vertical dive: A rollover into a dive loop, a steep swooping drop with a tight transition at the top, a double down. There's three and I'm not even a roller coaster designer. Most importantly, none of these things would require a full stop at the MCBR. B&M would go a long way towards making these already short rides feel more substantial by not deviding them in half.

 

Imagine a lower MCBR with no stop, a steep drop with lots of floater air, into a series of ground-level switchbacks (with a tunnel or two). Now there's the start of a real second half.

I think you misunderstand what midcourse safety brakes are there for. You need to design the ride as if the ride does come to a complete stop, and then allow for some added velocity.

 

In this case, a dive on a dive coaster is a good thing. Your suggestions are fitting for other coaster types.

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Ummmmm...

 

Why does B&M feel the need to waste track on a second vertical dive . . .

 

Things more interesting than another vertical dive: . . . a steep drop with lots of floater air. . .

 

So instead of a second vertical dive, you'd rather have a steep drop?? Yep, that makes perfect sense.

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

. . . In this case, a dive on a dive coaster is a good thing. Your suggestions are fitting for other coaster types.

 

 

Perfectly said. Sure some of the suggestions were okay... for a different type of coaster. Not for a Dive Machine. I feel like the original poster is still missing the point of a Dive Machine. The point of a Dive Machine is vertical (or near vertical drops.) Which is why a Dive Machine has a vertical(ish) drop after the MCBR.

Edited by DoinItForTheFame
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Many of these maneuvers are likely impossible with dive coaster trains. They have to account for the possible range of speeds the train could be traveling if the MCBR were lower or didn't always bring the ride to a standstill.

 

Look--it's a dive machine. The ride was originally designed to be literally just a vertical drop and a curve into the final brakes. Cedar Point needs the ride to be high capacity so the MCBR had to happen, and really any extra track is just icing on the cake. If you want a lengthy multi looper you shouldn't be looking at B&M dive machines.

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If you want a lengthy multi looper you shouldn't be looking at B&M dive machines.

 

EXACTLY! There are other rides in the park that are good lengthy multi-loopers. IE: Raptor, Gatekeeper, and Rougarou.

 

I can't believe that someone is really complaining about a vertical drop on a Dive Machine. SMH.

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