Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[CoasterLine]

More progress. Look like they were going to try to get at least one more piece up today, but didn't have the angles right. We'll likely see the turn into the MCBR finished either tomorrow or the day after.

Construction Progress as of January 25, 2016

Edited January 27, 2016 by CoasterLine

[DrachenfireOP]

I'll chime in for Gemini too. That is one GREAT coaster, especially when it's racing! It's one of the few rides where I think the trims make it better. Actually, I think EVERY coaster at the park now has a very important place, and should either stay, or at best be modified/replaced with a similar ride. There's some coasters that I think are all but "off limits" to remove (though of course they might be some day), some that REALLY should stay no matter what, and some that could use tweaking or replacing, but only with a very similar ride since the spread is pretty great now.

 

What I think should be "off limits."

Cedar Creek Mine Ride - Classic coaster, and a part of history at this point. Also, I can't think of many things that could replace it effectively (except, like, another mine coaster... so why bother if it's still working?)

Gemini - Another classic, and was a record holder at open. This is the closest the park has to a truly great wooden coaster. Racing coasters are also real winners with the GP.

Magnum - First coaster over 200 ft. It's a landmark. Also, with the seatbelts, it's not as rough anymore, and it has SERIOUS ejector airtime, one of the best hypers in the world.

Millennium Force - First over 300 ft, so also a landmark. Also, it's just an awesome ride.

TTD - First over 400 ft, so yet another landmark. Not my favorite ride as it's more of a gimmick imo, but no denying it's a big deal.

Wilderness Run - classic kiddy coaster. What would they honestly replace it with other than another kiddy coaster? (I mean, they do have woodstock express, but the kiddos should have options too!)

 

What I think would be a damn shame to see gone

Blue Streak - Classic older coaster. There are a minority of enthusiasts who think this is rough. I don't think it is, and also it's a wooden coaster.

Gate Keeper - Lets be honest, while not historic, it's not going anywhere.

Iron Dragon - This is a great "first big coaster" for people. It should stay, or at best be replaced with a similar family style coaster. The reason many Arrow suspended coasters get removed is because they're self destructive, but Iron Dragon is a lot tamer than rides like BBW or EF were, so the maintenance likely isn't as bad.

Maverick - Same as gatekeeper. Also, this is one of those "high thrill" rides that people need to work up to.

Raptor - Same. (Also, one of my favorite suspended of all time from back when B&Ms had balls).

Rougarou - I never minded Mantis. Actually, I sorta liked it. I like Rougarou even more. I am not a fan of the new-wave force-less B&Ms. I especially love the second half of this ride now that it's floorless (especially in the back!)

Valrvn - Lol, not even done yet so of course it shouldn't go anywhere.

Woodstock Express - As I said above, while this one is not a "classic" the same way Wilderness is, the kids should have options too!

 

What I think should only be replaced or redone carefully to fill the same niche.

Corkscrew - I don't think this should go at all (especially since I'm fairly certain it was the first coaster with three loops), but I know some people don't like Arrows. I think this is a pretty tame Arrow as they come, but more importantly, this is the "good first looper" for the park. If they put new trains on that did away with the "Arrow Slam," that would be great. Also, if they do ever pull it out, they need to replace it with a not so tall coaster with only a few loops. If it goes, the "my first looping coaster" at the park would need to be one of the B&Ms or Maverick... hardly good "warm up to loops" coasters.

Mean Streak - Ok, I really don't like this ride. You get to be rough but fun or smooth but forceless. Rough yet forceless shouldn't exist, and yet here it stands. I don't think it should be scrapped, because the park lacks for good wooden coasters. I think it should be re-tracked, or replaced with an Intamin woodie. As much as I would love to see it get the RMC treatment as an enthusiast, replacing it with another major woodie would be better for their lineup. RMC really isn't "wood" anymore in the true sense.

Wicked Twister - While again not the most thrilling of rides, this is another one where certain people will get on it but don't want to go on rides that go upside down. I personally don't understand that logic, but there's a lot of them in the GP. If they took this out, it should be replaced with a non-inverting launch coaster a la Verbolten.

[coasterbill]

Great point, removing Wicked Twister would free up boat loats of room. I'm sure removing that would absolutely allow them to replace it with "a non-inverting launch coaster a la Verbolten".

 

Also there's no chance in hell they're removing Wicked Twister any time soon. If they wanted that they would just build it because they have plenty of room, if they wanted to remove a coaster to free up space why would they remove the coaster that takes up less space than any adult coaster in the park? Especially a thrilling, 200+ foot coaster that's barely over 10 years old? lol

[VF15]

I too am a fan of Gemini. One of the smoothest Arrows out there and has some nice airtime pops. If it was removed, I would be a bit disappointed but I wouldn't be devastated. I would much rather see them remove Mean Streak, Iron Dragon, or Corkscrew.

[DorneyKid14]

Gemini was a good coaster. I only rode it at the last second just to get the credit before heading home. It was a good ride, i enjoyed it. It could use a little refurb, but not for it to go bye bye.

 

Cedar Creek Mine Train was awesome. I would hate from them to get rid of that.

 

Any news if the boat is okay?

[G Force]

Corkscrew, or Mean Streak will be the next coasters to go. Iron Dragon is not that great but its a favorite among younger guests and still gets decent ridership. Although with the location of Corkscrew I'm not really sure what they would replace it with. The double arches are just so iconic and awesome to me it doesn't really matter than the ride is awful.

[boldikus]

Team Gemini here. Total surprise and rate it highly. Great little coaster, especially when racing. The mine train is completely forgettable. Maybe that's because it was one of the last things we did all weekend or that I barely fit but that's some nice real estate they could use for something new. Historical significance or not, Corkscrew is a travesty.

[WolfBobs]

Especially a thrilling, 200+ foot coaster that's barely over 10 years old? lol

 

When it comes to the new regime I wouldn't be surprised if a ride is taken out that is relatively new. WT wouldn't be the first Intamin ride built stateside that didn't have a long life. I'm not saying it will go, I'm just saying don't be surprised if it left before some older rides went.

 

I would be all for Corkscrew to be removed, to me, it's a waste of space. I know it "serves a purpose" as being a intro to looping coasters coaster, but I feel that's how enthusiasts look at things. Not park management. I would love to see a nice compact looper take its spot, something like Impulse at Knoebels. Add a 3rd row to the trains, give it the ability to run 4 or 5 units to increase capacity, double load station. It could work, and would probably have a better output then Maverick.

[DorneyKid14]

Corkscrew would be a mistake to get rid of. IMO its a wonderful coaster. Its small and compact, and very enjoyable. One of my favorites at CP tbh.

[coasterbill]

What "space" exactly does Corkscrew "take up"? It goes over the midway for the most part or occupies less than 10 feet along the side of the walkway. The station area is basically the only space it takes up. I hope they never remove Corkscrew because even though it sucks it looks awesome over the midway and kids really seem to like it.

 

Mine Ride and Mean Streak are the only coasters I think it makes any sense to remove. That being said I won't complain if Mean Streak runs forever because not only do we enjoy it and it's short lines but I love watching enthusiasts constantly whine and bitch about how bad it is.

[WolfBobs]

Corkscrews over the midway wouldn't be that hard to design into a new ride. All rides have a finite life cycle. It'll be removed when the business plan calls for it.

[coasterbill]

"All rides" don't have a finite life cycle. For example... I have no doubt that if Cedar Point is around in 100 years, Blue Streak, will still be running. The same goes for basically any classic wood coaster. They never get removed unless the park closes (and please nobody say anything about Thunder Road or some ride from the 70's, I'm talking about real classics... 50 plus years old).

 

The same goes for some steel coasters too. For example... I'm sure SooperDooperLooper will run as long as that park is in business.

 

I don't think any coaster at Cedar Point besides Blue Streak falls into this category but I still don't see any coasters besides the two I mentioned being removed in the foreseeable future. With the majority of rides I think your post is 100% accurate of course but I think anything beyond those two is far into the future.

[DorneyKid14]

"All rides" don't have a finite life cycle. For example... I have no doubt that if Cedar Point is around in 100 years, Blue Streak, will still be running. The same goes for basically any classic wood coaster. They never get removed unless the park closes (and please nobody say anything about Thunder Road or some ride from the 70's, I'm talking about real classics... 50 plus years old).

 

The same goes for some steel coasters too. For example... I'm sure SooperDooperLooper will run as long as that park is in business.

 

I don't think any coaster at Cedar Point besides Blue Streak falls into this category but I still don't see any coasters besides the two I mentioned being removed in the foreseeable future. With the majority of rides I think your post is 100% accurate of course but I think anything beyond those two is far into the future.

 

Same goes for Thunderhawk at DP. There is no way the park removes that.

[Duff]

What I think should only be replaced or redone carefully to fill the same niche.

Corkscrew - I don't think this should go at all (especially since I'm fairly certain it was the first coaster with three loops), but I know some people don't like Arrows. I think this is a pretty tame Arrow as they come, but more importantly, this is the "good first looper" for the park. If they put new trains on that did away with the "Arrow Slam," that would be great. Also, if they do ever pull it out, they need to replace it with a not so tall coaster with only a few loops. If it goes, the "my first looping coaster" at the park would need to be one of the B&Ms or Maverick... hardly good "warm up to loops" coasters.

 

Corkscrew also has value for its visual placement over the midway. I think the stimulation of watching screaming riders pass right over your head makes Corkscrew a unique asset. It creates an exciting atmosphere in the midway.

[DrachenfireOP]

Yeah I don't think any rides should go. I was just saying where I envision the "hierarchy" should it ever come to it. I'd love to see old Arrows get new trains with a better bogey system and spring wheels. A lot of what makes them "rough" is the shimmy back and forth and the slam into the turns since there's a gap between the upstop and guide wheels and the rail. I think it could easily be done, but no park had seen it as necessary yet for a commission, with the exception of the Morgan trains on Phantom which is a great proof of concept.

 

Also when you pull a ride out, you don't need to replace it on site. Like, if for some odd reason they ever pulled twister out, they don't need a "replacement" ride in the sense of real estate, as much as a "replacement" in the form of filling the hole now present in their ride lineup (a thrilling but not too thrill non inversion coaster in that case).

 

I again don't think any coasters need to go at all. It's a great line up and I'd much rather see refurbishment over the scrap yard on any of their current lineup.

 

Also yeah, corkscrew over t he midway is a great image, especially at night!

[gerstlaueringvar]

Calm down people, I'm just saying Gemini can be very jerky at certain spots and retrack will make it so much better, just like BTMR at Disneyland. They might be able to figure out ways to cut down the pressure on the structure so Gemini can stay there longer!

[hendrixmarshalljames]

We went from "Valravn has nice curves" to taking out Corkscrew and Gemini? Can we talk about the colors? Or no Splash? Forceless? Hate B & M? Love B & M? The Boat? chik-fil-a replacement? Heaven? Hell? It seems the internet was invented to complain, and that's all...FFS, ridership up or down, lines short or long, glad to have something to do when I'm at that end of the park...that's visually striking...and...lest we forget, the only dive coaster that's reasonably close for anyone that doesn't live on the East coast...They really are fun...it ain't I305, and wasn't intended to be.

[blk_mamba]

I'll chime in for Gemini too. That is one GREAT coaster, especially when it's racing! It's one of the few rides where I think the trims make it better. Actually, I think EVERY coaster at the park now has a very important place, and should either stay, or at best be modified/replaced with a similar ride. There's some coasters that I think are all but "off limits" to remove (though of course they might be some day), some that REALLY should stay no matter what, and some that could use tweaking or replacing, but only with a very similar ride since the spread is pretty great now.

 

What I think should be "off limits."

Cedar Creek Mine Ride - Classic coaster, and a part of history at this point. Also, I can't think of many things that could replace it effectively (except, like, another mine coaster... so why bother if it's still working?)

Gemini - Another classic, and was a record holder at open. This is the closest the park has to a truly great wooden coaster. Racing coasters are also real winners with the GP.

Magnum - First coaster over 200 ft. It's a landmark. Also, with the seatbelts, it's not as rough anymore, and it has SERIOUS ejector airtime, one of the best hypers in the world.

Millennium Force - First over 300 ft, so also a landmark. Also, it's just an awesome ride.

TTD - First over 400 ft, so yet another landmark. Not my favorite ride as it's more of a gimmick imo, but no denying it's a big deal.

Wilderness Run - classic kiddy coaster. What would they honestly replace it with other than another kiddy coaster? (I mean, they do have woodstock express, but the kiddos should have options too!)

 

What I think would be a damn shame to see gone

Blue Streak - Classic older coaster. There are a minority of enthusiasts who think this is rough. I don't think it is, and also it's a wooden coaster.

Gate Keeper - Lets be honest, while not historic, it's not going anywhere.

Iron Dragon - This is a great "first big coaster" for people. It should stay, or at best be replaced with a similar family style coaster. The reason many Arrow suspended coasters get removed is because they're self destructive, but Iron Dragon is a lot tamer than rides like BBW or EF were, so the maintenance likely isn't as bad.

Maverick - Same as gatekeeper. Also, this is one of those "high thrill" rides that people need to work up to.

Raptor - Same. (Also, one of my favorite suspended of all time from back when B&Ms had balls).

Rougarou - I never minded Mantis. Actually, I sorta liked it. I like Rougarou even more. I am not a fan of the new-wave force-less B&Ms. I especially love the second half of this ride now that it's floorless (especially in the back!)

Valrvn - Lol, not even done yet so of course it shouldn't go anywhere.

Woodstock Express - As I said above, while this one is not a "classic" the same way Wilderness is, the kids should have options too!

 

What I think should only be replaced or redone carefully to fill the same niche.

Corkscrew - I don't think this should go at all (especially since I'm fairly certain it was the first coaster with three loops), but I know some people don't like Arrows. I think this is a pretty tame Arrow as they come, but more importantly, this is the "good first looper" for the park. If they put new trains on that did away with the "Arrow Slam," that would be great. Also, if they do ever pull it out, they need to replace it with a not so tall coaster with only a few loops. If it goes, the "my first looping coaster" at the park would need to be one of the B&Ms or Maverick... hardly good "warm up to loops" coasters.

Mean Streak - Ok, I really don't like this ride. You get to be rough but fun or smooth but forceless. Rough yet forceless shouldn't exist, and yet here it stands. I don't think it should be scrapped, because the park lacks for good wooden coasters. I think it should be re-tracked, or replaced with an Intamin woodie. As much as I would love to see it get the RMC treatment as an enthusiast, replacing it with another major woodie would be better for their lineup. RMC really isn't "wood" anymore in the true sense.

Wicked Twister - While again not the most thrilling of rides, this is another one where certain people will get on it but don't want to go on rides that go upside down. I personally don't understand that logic, but there's a lot of them in the GP. If they took this out, it should be replaced with a non-inverting launch coaster a la Verbolten.

 

We agree on most of these points. Looking objectively from a operations standpoint no ride is safe is it is has low ridership and high maintenance cost. For example one day it may be more cost efficient to just replace the Cedar Creek mine train even it is with another family coaster or another mine train. The part may become hard to find or manufacture. Ridership may be low. The ride maybe become rough.

 

Maybe I am in the minority but Gemini doesn't do anything for me. I get its a great family coaster but I feel like it can be replaced with another great family roller coaster. It may have been a record breaker but is it world first like Magnum, Force and Dragster?

 

I agree with a post from earlier though it seems like some of those older 1950's woodies are just built to last even though at this point I wonder how much of the Blue Streak coaster is original. Either way

[Coastin Eric]

Yeah but how cool would it be having one side of Gemini RMC'd and just be a crazy ride

[CP Maverick]

It would change the whole experience. Those long slow turns actually enhance the racing aspect of the ride.

[southpuddle]

I'd venture to guess that close to none of Blue Streak is original, save for some footers and parts of the station structure. Wood on a wooden coaster gets quite a beating and is constantly being replaced.

 

When I worked at Cedar Point, I remember hearing that there was some formula that park management used to determine whether or not a ride would be removed. It took into account ridership and maintenance cost, and the end result had to equal a certain dollar amount per rider. I can't for the life of me remember what that dollar amount was, but once it reached that point, it got the axe. And so, some rides that cost next to nothing to operate would have to have their ridership decrease catastrophically to be considered for removal. I'm sure that there are other factors to consider, but this formula was a main one.

[Ed Farmer]

 

Corkscrew also has value for its visual placement over the midway. I think the stimulation of watching screaming riders pass right over your head makes Corkscrew a unique asset. It creates an exciting atmosphere in the midway.

With a ride like Corkscrew, it wouldn't surprise me if they replaced it with a modern design of some sort that incorporates it's own pair of corkscrew inversions over the midway into it's layout, sooner rather than later. It's very easy to see an Intamin looper (let's for a moment suspend the whole CP/CF will never buy Intamin again cackling- even if there is anything to it, things change as the world turns) with eleventy-some inversions (whatever the current inversion record may be at that time), and with the aforementioned pair of corkscrews over the midway as a nod to the past. They modernize, while also grabbing a record and retaining really the only iconic thing about Corkscrew.

 

That, or they just do this:

[DrachenfireOP]

Looks like Valrvns MCBR is assembled and on the site ready to be raised.

[Vigil]

I'm also going to chime in with the Gemini love; it was one of my group's favorites when we went this summer. Anyway, compared to the screenshot of the live feed posted a few pages back, the current live feed seems to have the most recent piece of track removed. Or at least that's what it looks like?

 

Also just a random thought with regards to pieces from older coasters being hard to manufacture. Parks could jump on 3D scanning/printing parts. The cost of all 3D printers is falling, and ones that print in metal are definitely an option. And parks probably have the budget for it too. It makes an exact replica of whatever part they need with no fancy manufacturing.

[DoinItForTheFame]

Looks like Valrvns MCBR is assembled and on the site ready to be raised.

 

Maybe it is just me, but does anyone else find it weird the way they assembled the MCBR underneath the supports that the MCBR will be above? It just seems to me like it would have been easier to assemble the MCBR close to it's location, but not underneath supports. Now when they go to raise it in place they will have to go around, and over the support above where the MCBR is sitting.

 

Not trying to "be an engineer" here, or say that "they don't know what they are doing" when obviously they do know what they are doing, and there is a reason for the way they do everything that they do... I just find it odd the placement of the MCBR right now. That is all.