Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[Cj1990]

This looks like it will be a nice addition to the park. I personally have never been much of a dive coaster fan, but I am sure people will really enjoy the coaster. Love the animations they put out and also the VR app.

[ImNotOneOfYou]

It seems like the complaining isn't as bad as other coasters. Maybe the leaked information was like a complaint vaccine.

[ImmelMatt]

I know this is going to be an excellent coaster, I know at most any other park this would be considered the crown jewel of their collection, but in a collection as stacked as Cedar Point's... well, let's look at it this way.

 

Is this the tallest coaster in the park? No, it's the third tallest.

Is this the first coaster of theirs with a straight down drop? No, it's their second (third if you count beyond-90 degree drops)

Is this their first floorless train coaster or coaster where the seats hang outside the track? No, thanks to the Rougarou conversion last year and Gatekeeper the year before.

 

What I'm getting at is that this does not answer any need of the park. It's impressive, very impressive. The GP will eat it up and I'm sure it will ride incredible with slim to none maintenance issues thanks to B&M's stellar engineering... but it doesn't really stand out from the rest of their collection.

[Mossed]

^ You are forgetting Wicked Twister, which also has a 90 degree spike.

 

A few things I really like about this coaster

 

*The ride after the MCBR. The elements they added look unique, that second inversion and the airtime hill could add more to the ride than people expect.

* The station - Nobody seems to be talking about it, but it looks pretty slick, especially with the brick underneath.

* The new walkway / entrance. Obviously it won't match GateKeeper with the keyholes, but it all appears to be updated in a similar fashion to the GateKeeper plaza. That alone is a massive upgrade.

* Height/Speed/Weight ratio. Best in the business...

* Location of the lift hill right above the new Marina entrance plaza.

* GateKeeper restraints

 

Things I don't like.

 

* Theme. Not a huge deal, and we honestly don't know what this coaster will have because we only saw the rendering.

* Shade in queue line. Maybe the massive track will shade us from the sun.

 

Conclusion

 

My favorite park adding what will likely be a top 3 or 4 coaster at the park, and likely the best B&M. A coaster with high capacity, good reliability, is easily re-rideable, is marketable (breaks 10 records!), and adds to the already legendary skyline... and if for some reason it's awful, I'll always have Maverick.

[ImNotOneOfYou]

Is this the tallest coaster in the park? No, it's the third tallest.

Is this the first coaster of theirs with a straight down drop? No, it's their second (third if you count beyond-90 degree drops)

Is this their first floorless train coaster or coaster where the seats hang outside the track? No, thanks to the Rougarou conversion last year and Gatekeeper the year before.

 

What I'm getting at is that this does not answer any need of the park. It's impressive, very impressive. The GP will eat it up and I'm sure it will ride incredible with slim to none maintenance issues thanks to B&M's stellar engineering... but it doesn't really stand out from the rest of their collection.

 

223 feet. One of five roller coasters at the park to break 200 feet. Carowinds has 2. SFGAdv has 2. SFMM has 3.

 

Top Thrill Dragster doesn't hold you over the drop at all. It's just up and over.

 

Trains to not define the layout. Millennium Force and Top Thrill Dragster both have you sit down above the track. Wicked Twister and Raptor both have you seated below the track with no floor.

[rcoaster10]

I think it'll be a great ride and it'll be super unique for probably most of the Cedar Point crowd. I've been on Sheikra and I found it to be an amazing ride, and it's probably my favorite at BGT. Then this coaster looks even better, so I'm sure I'll like this even more. If this coaster was going to literally any other park, it would probably be one of the best coasters at the park, but like ImmelMatt said, when you compare it to the absolutely fantastic existing lineup at Cedar Point, it just doesn't stand out.

 

I do find it a little strange that there isn't anything special to it though. The layout is good, but not amazing. Based on the rendering, there aren't any "thematic elements" such as tunnels or splashdowns or anything that really stands out. Not like I was expecting it, but no theming even like Banshee has. They pretty much took out the last area of trees in the front of the park and plopped this coaster down and surrounded with more concrete. However, this is only the rendering so I'm not sure what Cedar Point may have in store.

 

In terms of the actual ride, I think it's weird that they're going back to this old style ride and put in one with an unoriginal layout. Looking back, Gatekeeper has arguably the best layout of any wing coaster and it was one of the very first wing coasters, plus the awesome keyholes and front gate interaction. Maverick has the launch tunnel, moderate theming, water bombs, and was the first idea of a low to the ground high speed coaster. Dragster has the whole race theme with audio and lights as well as the midway interaction, not to mention it was the tallest coaster. All of the previous additions have been, for the most part ,brand new innovative rides. All of Cedar Points additions are usually an A or A+ and I feel like this is a B.

 

One thing I didn't even really notice until my GP friend pointed it out, but it's extremely similar to GateKeeper. Obviously the holding drop is completely different and unique to this ride, but the 3 inversions (immelman, dive loop, zero-g) that Valravn has, GateKeeper already had. Not to mention the same wide style trains with wing seats and the exact same restraints. I'm hoping that the restraints don't restrict the airtime too much, as I thought that was the best part of Sheikra. I also find it strange though that this has a 54" height requirement, where as GateKeeper and Banshee have a 52" height requirement.

 

Overall, I do think it'll be an amazing ride and I'm probably being pretty critical of them considering it's my home and all-time favorite park so I care a lot about what they do. Could they have put something better in? Yes probably. Is this still a solid addition? Of course. It won't be another Maverick but it'll be another high capacity, reliable, impressive looking coaster.

[ImmelMatt]

Is this the tallest coaster in the park? No, it's the third tallest.

Is this the first coaster of theirs with a straight down drop? No, it's their second (third if you count beyond-90 degree drops)

Is this their first floorless train coaster or coaster where the seats hang outside the track? No, thanks to the Rougarou conversion last year and Gatekeeper the year before.

 

What I'm getting at is that this does not answer any need of the park. It's impressive, very impressive. The GP will eat it up and I'm sure it will ride incredible with slim to none maintenance issues thanks to B&M's stellar engineering... but it doesn't really stand out from the rest of their collection.

 

223 feet. One of five roller coasters at the park to break 200 feet. Carowinds has 2. SFGAdv has 2. SFMM has 3.

 

Top Thrill Dragster doesn't hold you over the drop at all. It's just up and over.

 

Trains to not define the layout. Millennium Force and Top Thrill Dragster both have you sit down above the track. Wicked Twister and Raptor both have you seated below the track with no floor.

 

But that's just the thing. There's not very much about it that stands out other than it's presence on the skyline and the holding brake at the top. It doesn't bring much new to the park's lineup like an Iron Horse conversion or a B&M Flyer would. There's nothing wrong with Valravn and it looks like it's going to be a great experience, but it doesn't feel like it brings all that much new to the table. Won't stop me from wanting to ride it though.

[boldikus]

So its safe to assume they'll leave at least one webcam facing the site all winter? This is gonna be fun to watch. Would be cool if they do a timelapse video once the construction is done, I always enjoy those.

 

http://pixelcaster.com/live/cedarpoint/index.html

[JonnyRCT3]

I know this is going to be an excellent coaster, I know at most any other park this would be considered the crown jewel of their collection, but in a collection as stacked as Cedar Point's... well, let's look at it this way.

 

Is this the tallest coaster in the park? No, it's the third tallest.

Is this the first coaster of theirs with a straight down drop? No, it's their second (third if you count beyond-90 degree drops)

Is this their first floorless train coaster or coaster where the seats hang outside the track? No, thanks to the Rougarou conversion last year and Gatekeeper the year before.

 

 

What I'm getting at is that this does not answer any need of the park. It's impressive, very impressive. The GP will eat it up and I'm sure it will ride incredible with slim to none maintenance issues thanks to B&M's stellar engineering... but it doesn't really stand out from the rest of their collection.

 

 

Valvran has an incredible first drop of 214' vertical, that is sure to be filled with but-lifting airtime. Then we have a MASSIVE floating immelmann, followed by a high-speed compact turn. Another near vertical drop with more but-lifting airtime, followed by an always stellar dive loop into (what looks like) an awesome hang-time/zero G/crazy lats educing roll, followed by a banked turn into a classic extended-weightless camelback.

 

Is Raptor the tallest coaster in the park? No, not even close. And yet people still love it.

Is Dragster the first coaster in the park with a twisted 90° drop? No. Wicked Twister does twisted 90° multiple times at a even more extreme degree of twisting with Inverted trains. And yet people still love Dragster.

Was Rougarou the first coaster with no floor? No. GateKeeper, Wicked Twister and Raptor had no floors YEARS earlier. And yet people still flock to Rougarou.

 

 

Amusement parks are a place where people come to have fun. And when they see a massive steel coaster holding people before the first drop followed by lots of twisted inversions, they will immediately see a coaster they'll be eager to ride.

[Garet]

I'm just excited to try out these VR glasses on the ride, I heard the graphics look so real you'd actually think your on a roller-coaster in the middle of Cedar Point

 

[Rayj]

This seems like a good addition to the park... But not the best decision. 1. The diving aspect of the ride is cool but you have rougarou and gatekeeper, which are similar in seating style and inversions. 2. The color of valravn are too close to rougarou's and they are near each other in the park (I hate when parks do this. Ex: kingda ka and green lantern, 2 green coaster right next to each other.) 3.cedar point could've at least added a splashdown or tunnel to make it different from other coasters in the park. A better option would've been to have Valravn, the world tallest and fastest flying coaster. Overall, this will still be a good ride regardless but it has more potential. I'm not complaining bread I wish I could have this at my home park (six flags America), but this is just my opinion.

Again, you can tell who hasn't ridden a DM by their comments.

Ok and??? So what if I haven't ridden one. I can't still state my opinion... So shutup. Thanks

[JonnyRCT3]

This seems like a good addition to the park... But not the best decision. 1. The diving aspect of the ride is cool but you have rougarou and gatekeeper, which are similar in seating style and inversions. 2. The color of valravn are too close to rougarou's and they are near each other in the park (I hate when parks do this. Ex: kingda ka and green lantern, 2 green coaster right next to each other.) 3.cedar point could've at least added a splashdown or tunnel to make it different from other coasters in the park. A better option would've been to have Valravn, the world tallest and fastest flying coaster. Overall, this will still be a good ride regardless but it has more potential. I'm not complaining bread I wish I could have this at my home park (six flags America), but this is just my opinion.

 

Ok. So what should've you done in the same land-restrictive area? Please come up with a concept that fits within the allotted budget, and doesn't compromises ride time and delivers just as many maneuvers, and is aesthetically pleasing at all angles. Please, Mr. Rayj, expert coaster designer, tell me the maximum roll rate and minimum radius you've created, along with the maximum velocity acceleration exerted on passenger 24 (who weighs 50kg), 1.2026 seconds after the apex of the dive loop. You obviously know more than the experienced people at the Swiss firm B&M, so please tell me.

 

I'm waiting.

[Coasterguy21]

^^Umm, how can you flat out compare a coaster type you've never ridden to another coaster type? That's what he was getting at when he said you obviously never rode a DM.

 

Because comparing one to Rougarou or GateKeeper is insane....

[DBru]

I think all of us who are underwhelmed by this announcement feel that way because of one common issue: there's nothing about this coaster that makes it "special." There's nothing new here that will set it apart from anything we can experience at another park, or even in our own park. A big, smooth, generic coaster. Will it be fun? Sure. Will people, including enthusiasts, enjoy riding it? Of course. But honestly, when it comes to Cedar Point, the Roller Coaster Capital of the World, I expect to be wowed or at least surprised in some way with the introduction of a new coaster. Unfortunately, nothing about this addition is unique or surprising. This is why so many of us are disappointed in the lack of a tunnel, a splashdown, theming, ect. While on a ride such as Millennium Force, these things may be trivial, many of us were hoping to see some of these elements on this coaster because it would add SOMETHING to make it significantly more "interesting" than a giant coaster on a big plot of grass. In my opinion, this is a really valid "complaint."

 

All in all, SheiKra and Griffon are my favorite coasters at their respective parks, so I am looking forward to riding Valravn. But I would be more looking forward to something that was just a little...different.

 

 

 

(Also I freaking hate those new trains with the reclined seats and the smothering vests. )

[tanthonyam]

So now they have 2 coasters named after birds. (Raptor)

[DILinator]

I think all of us who are underwhelmed by this announcement feel that way because of one common issue: there's nothing about this coaster that makes it "special." There's nothing new here that will set it apart from anything we can experience at another park, or even in our own park. A big, smooth, generic coaster. Will it be fun? Sure. Will people, including enthusiasts, enjoy riding it? Of course. But honestly, when it comes to Cedar Point, the Roller Coaster Capital of the World, I expect to be wowed or at least surprised in some way with the introduction of a new coaster. Unfortunately, nothing about this addition is unique or surprising. This is why so many of us are disappointed in the lack of a tunnel, a splashdown, theming, ect. While on a ride such as Millennium Force, these things may be trivial, many of us were hoping to see some of these elements on this coaster because it would add SOMETHING to make it significantly more "interesting" than a giant coaster on a big plot of grass. In my opinion, this is a really valid "complaint."

 

 

Very well said! I am quite excited about getting an awesome new coaster at CP, and also really looking forward to seeing that whole new opened up section of the park! I'm actually seriously thinking about getting a Platinum Pass for the first time in ages, and already am planning my early-season CP run. I really enjoyed ShieKra when I rode it, have wanted to ride Griffon for forever, and really wanted a Dive Machine at CP eventually. There are many more positives and superlatives I could spit out regarding my excitement for Valravn (such as both my FB Profile and Cover picture now being it, as well as my work desktop wallpaper), but I think you get the point.

 

Having said all of that, however, I still feel a bit of that "anticipointment", that somebody referred to earlier, where I really, really like this coaster, but don't "love" it, really. That being said, I still can't wait to ride it, and anticipate it'll settle comfortably into my Top 5 coasters at CP! I just think it could have been so much more... But it's not, that's okay, and what it is still looks great!

[thrillseeker4552]

So now they have 2 coasters named after birds. (Raptor)

 

GateKeeper is also a bird to my understanding.

 

To add to the discussion here, I REALLY like Valravn as a coaster. The name is unique, the color scheme is excellent, the ride is fairly rare in the United States, and it has a nice layout and trains. I believe the reasons for the complaints/disappointments are that it is at Cedar Point. If they would have put this exact ride at any other Cedar Fair park, people would be THRILLED. But in my opinion, this ride just doesn't "click" at Cedar Point since it really doesn't bring anything new to the table. Floorless trains? Rougarou, check. Wing-like seats? GateKeeper, check. Straight down/tall drops? TTD, Maverick, MF, Wicked Twister, check. It almost seems like a SFMM move...just slapping a new coaster on an open plot of land.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am stoked that B&M Dive Machines are back in the states after a 9-year hiatus, but I feel like this ride would have fit much better in almost any other Cedar Fair park. I trust Cedar Fair's decisions (since Matt Ouimet has done wonders for the company over the last few years), but this decision is easily the most "questionable" in my opinion, even though it was leaked quite a while ago and has been expected for a long time.

 

However, if this is any sign that more Dive Machines could show up at other Cedar Fair parks, count me in! Sheikra and Griffon get excellent reviews and have less interesting layouts than this one. I guess time will tell.

[DILinator]

I believe the reasons for the complaints/disappointments are that it is at Cedar Point. If they would have put this exact ride at any other Cedar Fair park, people would be THRILLED.

 

 

I 100% agree! It's definitely a victim of the "spoiled" nature of us Cedar Point fans, that anything about Valravn would be a disappointment! Heck, I still remember being excited about the addition of Mantis ( ), and then a couple of years later reading about the Power Tower addition and being like "Eh, ok... Cool, I guess..." It's the nature of the beast when CP is your "home park."

[neil009]

It almost seems like a SFMM move...just slapping a new coaster on an open plot of land.

 

I would argue this is Cedar Fair's primary modus operandi. The only way in which they beat Six Flags is fewer clones, fewer superhero names, bigger and better rides (lately), and they're nice enough to plant grass underneath the ride. If you want coasters that are truly "special" you have to look at family-owned parks like Holiday World or heavy themers like Dollywood.

 

Don't get me wrong, the addition of a dive machine seems particularly uninspired and blah, but it's really not surprising. If the airtime hill delivers, and if the corkscrew provides some weird sideways forces like on Thunderbird, this will be a solid ride. Given it's B&M I'm not holding my breath. Sometimes they remember that the way to make an exciting ride is to make elements that actually feel like something, sometimes they completely forget. "Oh wait, you mean a camelback is actually supposed to provide some kind of uplift sensation? Shoot! How do I keep forgetting that?"

 

The name is still STUPID.

[rcoaster10]

At least SFMM got TC. I'll trade if you want!

[DILinator]

I think my biggest mistake in approaching the announcement of Valravn was forgetting that this is Cedar Point we're talking about here, and expecting something that a Disney, Busch, or even Dollywood type of park would put in. Had I been approaching it looking at prior attempts at theming, I should have realized all of those "missing" elements like tunnels, splashdowns, or off-ride interaction weren't going to be present here. And that would have prevented what minimal anticipointment there was upon its announcement.

 

Sometimes they remember that the way to make an exciting ride is to make elements that actually feel like something, sometimes they completely forget.

 

Here's the thing: CP isn't looking to make an "exciting" ride by your definition. They are looking to add a new coaster that is exciting to the GP or non-enthususiast, which is at least 90% of their patrons. My wife (GP), and a bunch of her family (GP) went to CP on Monday and rode GateKeeper for the first time, and they all gave it rave reviews. That's because it IS exciting! Maybe not to you, but to "normal", non-enthusiast types, rides like GateKeeper, or especially dive coasters like Valravn are exciting. I'm pretty sure most of the world's population would look at the enthusiasts talking about not "feeling" anything on coasters like GK and Valravn, and think they've lost their marbles... And maybe we have!

[Rayj]

This seems like a good addition to the park... But not the best decision. 1. The diving aspect of the ride is cool but you have rougarou and gatekeeper, which are similar in seating style and inversions. 2. The color of valravn are too close to rougarou's and they are near each other in the park (I hate when parks do this. Ex: kingda ka and green lantern, 2 green coaster right next to each other.) 3.cedar point could've at least added a splashdown or tunnel to make it different from other coasters in the park. A better option would've been to have Valravn, the world tallest and fastest flying coaster. Overall, this will still be a good ride regardless but it has more potential. I'm not complaining bread I wish I could have this at my home park (six flags America), but this is just my opinion.

 

Ok. So what should've you done in the same land-restrictive area? Please come up with a concept that fits within the allotted budget, and doesn't compromises ride time and delivers just as many maneuvers, and is aesthetically pleasing at all angles. Please, Mr. Rayj, expert coaster designer, tell me the maximum roll rate and minimum radius you've created, along with the maximum velocity acceleration exerted on passenger 24 (who weighs 50kg), 1.2026 seconds after the apex of the dive loop. You obviously know more than the experienced people at the Swiss firm B&M, so please tell me.

 

I'm waiting.

And who are you? You tried it. I stated my opinion, now deal with it.

[neil009]

Here's what doesn't make sense about Valravn, besides the bafflingly awful name. Cedar Point has primarily been known for installing new or relatively new ride types. 

 

Magnum XL-200 (1989): First hyper coaster. 

 

Mean Streak (1991): Built during the big rush of Dinn Corp rides during the late 80s/early 90s. 

 

Raptor (1994): First B&M invert constructed in 1992. Delay: 2 years. 

 

Mantis (1996): First B&M stand-up constructed in 1990. Delay: 6 years. 

 

Millennium Force (2000): First giga coaster. 

 

Wicked Twister (2002): First impulse coaster constructed in 1998. Delay: 4 years. 

 

Top Thrill Dragster (2003): First strata coaster. 

 

Maverick (2007): First blitz coaster. 

 

Gatekeeper (2013): First B&M wing coaster constructed in 2011. Delay: 2 years. 

 

Valravn (2016): First dive coaster constructed in 1998. Delay: 18 years. 

 

The difference is stark. There is simply nothing new or exciting about a dive machine, and if that doesn't matter to the GP, then why did they always go with newer coaster types before? Or is it just a coincidence that the longest they ever let go by up till now was six years? 

Edited September 10, 2015 by neil009

[Morgan]

To be fair there are only nine other Dive Machines in the world, and only two others in America. So for the majority of people that will ride this, it will be a new coaster experience.

[Vonni]

So, is the second immelmann essentially where Wildcat was?