Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[DoinItForTheFame]

As I posted a while back, I'm willing to bet a large majority of people complaining about the dive coaster have never ridden Sheikra or Griffon. I rode Sheikra last year and thought it was really fun.

 

I have been saying this for months now. SheiKra and Griffon are both fun, enjoyable, very re-rideable coasters. If someone is complaining about the Dive Coasters they have obviously NEVER been on a dive coaster. They are complaining just to complain... because they heard others complain, and they think they should complain too.

[DrachenfireOP]

The third inversion on this potential coaster is probably worth the whole ride, and I doubt the rest of it will suck. Also, I'm a sucker for airtime hills.

 

I hope B&M comes up with a cool name for the third inversion, and not just "zero g roll with turn exit" or some such. Something like "wrap around dive roll" or... well that's about what I've got for a name, but it looks like a really cool element for any coaster, but on a DM, I bet there's some crazy forces that will be happening on the end seats (especially if they go 10 across on this)

[redfoot12]

How's Gatekeeper fare with the GP? I've not ridden it yet but I've heard it's pretty bland.

 

By the same token, Valravn looks like it'll be the same thing. Big and pretty but mostly a bore. Dammit, B&M, did your balls drop off in 2004?

 

I recently rode Gatekeeper for the first time, and I really enjoyed it. I don't know why anyone calls Gatekeeper "boring" or "forceless." Gatekeeper was a lot of fun. It is by no means one of the best coaster in the world. But it did make my top 20 list.

 

I feel like those who complain about Gatekeeper, and dive machines have seriously never been on them. Because anyone who has been on them know that they are good rides.

 

Also, when we were there the GP seemed to LOVE Gatekeeper. Everyone I over heard talking about it wanted to ride it again. They just didn't want to wait in the line.

 

I've been on Gatekeeper and Sheikra and Griffon. I really like the dive machines. Gatekeeper is a snoozefest, imo.

[RAWKIN_coaster38]

I've been riding Sheikra all summer and it seriously is an amazing ride. You get some great views, great floater in the back, and it's overall a very fun (albeit short) ride. The GP love it too!

 

The first half looks like Sheikra but taller and faster, and then we have more goodies tacked on at the end. So judging from what I see, this will probably be better than Sheikra and Sheikra is already a great ride, so this one should be as well.

 

And I definitely think it will be unique, and most people in the area probably haven't ridden a Dive Machine.

[tororific]

Gatekeeper is WOEFULLY over-criticized in my view. That first drop with the turn at the top and the upside plunge is unbelievably great in my view -- why don't more people find that drop super intense?

I think the problem most people have with Gatekeeper isn't the first drop or even up until the first keyhole, it's just that once it goes over the entrance to the park, the ride might as well be over. I can't think of many more coasters that have such a decent beginning into one of the most boring and useless 2nd halves of a layout ever.

 

And the first drop is very good. I'm not sure I would call it "super intense" but it is very good.

 

yeah, it's true that the ride does feel like it is losing steam after the keyholes and the return leg is a bit boring, although the turn around and spin next the keyhole is somewhat alright. But that's a pretty big chuck of ride that is quite good -- nothing amazing, but better than many coasters that don't seem to get the flak it does.

 

What's "intense" for me about the drop is that sensation of hanging upside down about 170 feet above the ground in the front, and then plunging down -- I dunno, it has a bizarre intensity to it that feels different than many conventional drops.

 

That all said, I still put it in the solid, good 6.5/7 out of 10 coaster category (but it seems to get PGA's Grizzly type of scorn around some people?)

Edited August 9, 2015 by tororific

[PeggedSole]

 

I've been on Gatekeeper and Sheikra and Griffon. I really like the dive machines. Gatekeeper is a snoozefest, imo.

 

I've ridden those three as well. I didn't think of Gatekeeper as a snoozefest...I thought it was fun. Then again, I only rode it once last year while visiting CP and didn't feel a need to ride it again unlike some other coasters at CP.

 

On the other hand, I really like Sheikra and Griffon! If CP ends up with a bigger, longer, B&M Dive Coaster, I think that's a good thing!

[11slataus]

I love both Griffon and Sheikra, so the fact that this coaster appears to do more than both of them looks like a huge win. My one gripe is that I wish it would do an extra turn or two before the MCBR. Seems like a huge waste of kinetic energy. But it makes up for it with a stellar-looking second half!

 

Part of me does wish CP would have knocked the dive coaster concept out of the park, but this does look to be the best one out there, so I'm sure I'll be happy to have it in the park.

[blk_mamba]

Gatekeeper is WOEFULLY over-criticized in my view. That first drop with the turn at the top and the upside plunge is unbelievably great in my view -- why don't more people find that drop super intense?

I think the problem most people have with Gatekeeper isn't the first drop or even up until the first keyhole, it's just that once it goes over the entrance to the park, the ride might as well be over. I can't think of many more coasters that have such a decent beginning into one of the most boring and useless 2nd halves of a layout ever.

 

And the first drop is very good. I'm not sure I would call it "super intense" but it is very good.

 

I felt the same way after the second run around over the park entrance I felt like "ok the point of the rest of the ride is to get back to the station/get the record for the longest winged coaster, lol.

[Password121]

Gatekeeper is WOEFULLY over-criticized in my view. That first drop with the turn at the top and the upside plunge is unbelievably great in my view -- why don't more people find that drop super intense?

I think the problem most people have with Gatekeeper isn't the first drop or even up until the first keyhole, it's just that once it goes over the entrance to the park, the ride might as well be over. I can't think of many more coasters that have such a decent beginning into one of the most boring and useless 2nd halves of a layout ever.

 

And the first drop is very good. I'm not sure I would call it "super intense" but it is very good.

 

I felt the same way after the second run around over the park entrance I felt like "ok the point of the rest of the ride is to get back to the station/get the record for the longest winged coaster, lol.

The second half (after the dive loop) is also incredibly slow paced. The second roll over the gates is taken noticeably slower than the first (and less forcefully), followed by the "mid" course brakes, then a helix that seems like it should be about five mph faster. The first half is pretty good and retains good speed, but after the dive loop it just isn't very good at all.

[redfoot12]

 

I've been on Gatekeeper and Sheikra and Griffon. I really like the dive machines. Gatekeeper is a snoozefest, imo.

 

I've ridden those three as well. I didn't think of Gatekeeper as a snoozefest...I thought it was fun. Then again, I only rode it once last year while visiting CP and didn't feel a need to ride it again unlike some other coasters at CP.

 

On the other hand, I really like Sheikra and Griffon! If CP ends up with a bigger, longer, B&M Dive Coaster, I think that's a good thing!

 

"Snoozefest" may have been overly harsh but someone earlier used the word "meandering" (in a positive context, no less) and that's just how this ride is to me. The only reason I rode it more than once was because the group I was with wanted to. Since there was nothing overtly painful or negative about my experience I decided begrudgingly to ride it again as well. I thought I was in danger of becoming a jaded enthusiast but I rode Silver Bullet (a ride a lot of enthusiasts don't care for) later that year and really enjoyed it. So there you have it. In my world Silver Bullet is better than Gatekeeper.

[horootle]

There is NOTHING forceless about those plunges down the two vertical (or near vertical) drops.

 

Umm isn't the point of a vertical drop to have zero gravity, aka no force? Ain't like they pull a ton of Gs at the bottom either

[robbalvey]

There is NOTHING forceless about those plunges down the two vertical (or near vertical) drops.

 

Umm isn't the point of a vertical drop to have zero gravity, aka no force? Ain't like they pull a ton of Gs at the bottom either

Are you kidding? Have you been on SheiKra? You get some very good airtime down the drop, especially in the back, and then you feel some very good forces when you pull out at the bottom into the first inversion.

 

EDIT: Apparently SheiKra pulls 4 Gs at the bottom of the first drop.

Edited August 9, 2015 by robbalvey

[djcoastermark]

^ Yes Robb, I do agree. That drop in the back has some of the best air time ever. It is most likely my favorite OH CR** *P !! moments on a coaster.

[BlahBlahson]

The only thing I have to say about this one is...it could have been more. There's not quite enough new or -Est to this one for me. The extra 10 feet is not an extra 60 or 100 feet. Having Sheikra nearby and having ridden Griffon recently...well it's basically Griffon with a wingrider-roll off of the helix instead of a splashdown (not a huge reason for me personally to fly back to the park or write gushing blog posts) Especially coming only a day off of Lightning Rod's announcement, a coaster with 5 or 6 never-before-seen elements this one is basically just a little bit safe. Should be a little bit better than previous Dives but not a leap of imagination.

 

One more closer to running out of B&M designs.

[redfoot12]

The only thing I have to say about this one is...it could have been more. There's not quite enough new or -Est to this one for me. The extra 10 feet is not an extra 60 or 100 feet. Having Sheikra nearby and having ridden Griffon recently...well it's basically Griffon with a wingrider-roll off of the helix instead of a splashdown (not a huge reason for me personally to fly back to the park or write gushing blog posts) Especially coming only a day off of Lightning Rod's announcement, a coaster with 5 or 6 never-before-seen elements this one is basically just a little bit safe. Should be a little bit better than previous Dives but not a leap of imagination.

 

One more closer to running out of B&M designs.

 

As long as Maverick exists there's always a reason to fly back to this park.

[horootle]

I like dive machines, just pointing out that it seems silly to say a vertical drop isn't "forceless" when that's the whole point of a vertical drop.

 

Nothing at the bottom of the drop makes me think their forces come anywhere near something like Kumba for example, but perhaps it just goes by too fast to really have time to appreciate?

[robbalvey]

I like dive machines, just pointing out that it seems silly to say a vertical drop isn't "forceless" when that's the whole point of a vertical drop.

 

Nothing at the bottom of the drop makes me think their forces come anywhere near something like Kumba for example, but perhaps it just goes by too fast to really have time to appreciate?

What the hell is your problem that you keep throwing this back in people's faces?!?!? First of all absolutely NOBODY is saying that the drop is either forceful or forceless. It produces some nice airtime, mostly floater, and that's the whole point. At the bottom of the drop, like I said, it pulls 4 G's. According to the internet, Kumba pulls 3.8 Gs. So sorry, you're wrong, SheiKra is actually more forceful. Does it feel more forceful than Kumba to me? No, but that has less to do with the actual recorded G forces and more about the layout.

 

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with your little factoid, but it's incredibly stupid and pointless that you felt the need to bring it up twice. Yes, you pointed it out. Thanks a lot. Whatever... Now move on...

Edited August 9, 2015 by robbalvey

[Mossed]

GateKeeper is my favorite B&M in the park. I prefer it to both Raptor and Rougauru. This DIve Coaster looks better then Gatekeeper, IMO. Maybe not enough to knock Maverick, TTD, or MF out of my top 3, but awesome anyways. Cedar Point continues to have the best lineup of coasters you're going to find at a park.

 

No, it's not Wildfire, or the Dollywood coaster, but it will be a reliable, high capacity, fun coaster, at America's Roller Coast.

[Mossed]

I'm just shocked they didn't name it Dive Hawk.

[tororific]

^ Yes Robb, I do agree. That drop in the back has some of the best air time ever. It is most likely my favorite OH CR** *P !! moments on a coaster.

 

Exactly - there is very good air on both Sheikra and Griffon, especially in the back. the darn restraints keep it from being great.

[DoinItForTheFame]

I'm just shocked they didn't name it Dive Hawk.

 

[SbSteveZ]

My only thoughts about the leak are:

 

1) that layout looks nothing like the typical renderings CP has used in the past. With the exception of maverick, there are renderings that all look incredibly similar for Millennium, Wicked Twister, Dragster, Gatekeeper and Rougarou. At least that's what I've seen. I'm not sure of the credibility of the pre Gatekeeper layout animations... But I guess if you look at other cedar fair announcements, they are all the actual colors of the ride, pretty gosh darn realistic, usually on a white background, and has the train SOMEWHERE on the layout.

 

2) the MCBR seems incredibly high up to me... If this is supposed to be over 200 feet tall, wouldn't that mean that MCBR is either 100' or higher up in the air? That seems a *little* high for an MCBR to me...

 

3) Some of these supports don't make total sense to me... Mainly at the base of the lift hill, and some parts of the track seem to have too much space between supports...

 

4) That final brake run seems like it's very very long... For a 3 car long train especially... I mean. Unless they want to announce the longest brake run on a dive machine to battle Lightning Rod's Quadruple Down airtime awesomeness.

 

Though I'm sure whatever Valravn ends up being, will be awesome... I have higher expectations for the actual layout rendering... The white track and white supports on a black background seems incredibly bland and not really all that real to

Me... Maybe CP just threw those fake layouts on their countdown in case it actually was hacked into or leaked somehow like with Gatekeeper. Maybe this is there nod to that happening. I'll try to keep an optimistic attitude with this. I'm hopeful for what they have to offer. And I'm willing to wait 9 days give or take to know for sure what they're adding. (For the record, I am on the "it's gonna be a dive machine" side of things)

[TB305]

My only thoughts about the leak are:

 

1) that layout looks nothing like the typical renderings CP has used in the past. With the exception of maverick, there are renderings that all look incredibly similar for Millennium, Wicked Twister, Dragster, Gatekeeper and Rougarou. At least that's what I've seen. I'm not sure of the credibility of the pre Gatekeeper layout animations... But I guess if you look at other cedar fair announcements, they are all the actual colors of the ride, pretty gosh darn realistic, usually on a white background, and has the train SOMEWHERE on the layout.

 

2) the MCBR seems incredibly high up to me... If this is supposed to be over 200 feet tall, wouldn't that mean that MCBR is either 100' or higher up in the air? That seems a *little* high for an MCBR to me...

 

3) Some of these supports don't make total sense to me... Mainly at the base of the lift hill, and some parts of the track seem to have too much space between supports...

 

4) That final brake run seems like it's very very long... For a 3 car long train especially... I mean. Unless they want to announce the longest brake run on a dive machine to battle Lightning Rod's Quadruple Down airtime awesomeness.

 

Though I'm sure whatever Valravn ends up being, will be awesome... I have higher expectations for the actual layout rendering... The white track and white supports on a black background seems incredibly bland and not really all that real to

Me... Maybe CP just threw those fake layouts on their countdown in case it actually was hacked into or leaked somehow like with Gatekeeper. Maybe this is there nod to that happening. I'll try to keep an optimistic attitude with this. I'm hopeful for what they have to offer. And I'm willing to wait 9 days give or take to know for sure what they're adding. (For the record, I am on the "it's gonna be a dive machine" side of things)

 

Almost all of your concerns are because this isn't the final rendering (saying this for the third time I think). Those images were ripped from the code of the VR app which leaked. Since it is made for phones, it is way less detailed (ie: no catwalks, chain, brakes, etc.) so that it can run smoothly on a phone. The color thing is because the renders are taken from code, and they're just 3d models found within the code.

[DILinator]

Well, I get busy for a day, don't access the boards at all, and look what I come back to!

 

I'm not sure what else to add, that hasn't already been said...

 

One thing that bothers me, is that it seems we are all expected to LOVE THIS or we're bad enthusiasts, who need to get a life... I don't agree with that attitude being given at all! There is nothing wrong with being a little disappointed with this coaster, compared to what hopes may have been for it. Admittedly, I find it to be a bit lackluster, from what I've seen, at least compared to what I was expecting based on this being Cedar Point we're talking about here. However, I haven't seen any official renderings, stats, or anything else, so I also haven't given it much serious thought yet. When the official announcement drops, I'll form my official opinion. Right now, all this still feels like a form of advanced speculation...

 

Now, don't get me wrong... I enjoyed ShieKra, and really want to ride Griffon, and have always wanted there to be more Dive Machines (I'm still old school with the name) in the US. So, I'm not at all disappointed with the ride from that perspective! I'll still be there either on a Media Day, Opening Day, or shortly therewith. I'm just a little surprised that the coaster isn't taller, faster, or have one more inversion. But regardless of that, I know it's going to be an awesome coaster, that I will greatly enjoy, and may surpass GateKeeper to join MF and Maverick in my Top 3 at the park! Yes, you read that right: GateKeeper is my 3rd favorite coaster at the park. I am definitely NOT in the crowd that thinks it is forceless, or disappointing (though the second half is, admittedly, nowhere near as good as the first half.) So that right there should tell you that I am not going to be unhappy with Valravn! (Okay, I HATE orange, and HATE that it's used so much at CP, but I'll still be happy with the coaster itself! )

 

The one thing that I'll potentially be disappointed with, which can't be definitively discerned from the stripped-bare images we've seen, is if there is no drop into a tunnel, or at least an enclosure of some sort (I'm not sure CP can really tunnel underground there, so close to the water). To me, that is a signature move for a Dive Machine, and part of what made ShieKra so cool to me! I don't care about the lack of a water splashdown element, but I will be a little bummed if there is no cool themed tunnel that Valravn drops into... However, I don't think those white layout pictures show any non-essential theming or elements, so I still think we'll find out there is something that it dives into when the official announcement is made. If there isn't though, my disappointment doesn't reflect negatively on me at all, nor does it really reflect negatively on CP. It just is a natural feeling that humans experience for various reasons, and it won't keep me from going to CP and enjoying the ride!

 

Regarding this whole leak just being CP trolling us... I think that'd be hilarious! I'm not saying it is just that, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if it was, either!

 

Also, that logo is awesome! That is all.

[cwgator]

My only thoughts about the leak are:

2) the MCBR seems incredibly high up to me... If this is supposed to be over 200 feet tall, wouldn't that mean that MCBR is either 100' or higher up in the air? That seems a *little* high for an MCBR to me...

 

SheiKra is 200' tall with 138' tall MCBR

Griffon is 205' tall with 130' MCBR

From the looks of it, if this is real it's just about right.

4) That final brake run seems like it's very very long... For a 3 car long train especially... I mean. Unless they want to announce the longest brake run on a dive machine to battle Lightning Rod's Quadruple Down airtime awesomeness.

 

It may be a longer brake run, but we don't know how many trains they intend to run on it or when the brakes actually start. If you look at both SheiKra & Griffon on satellite view (google or whatever) you will see that the brake runs are near the same length as the lift hill...much like the renderings for Valravn. Also since there appears to be no splash down to assist in slowing the trains down it makes perfect sense.