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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

p. 2030 - Top Thrill 2 announced!

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In all seriousness though, I think the new trains have something to do with it. It's an old track with new trains with a different heartline (if that even matters).

I think the trains are adjusted to ride at Mantis' heartline, i don't know if Mantis would have a higher or lower heartline than a floorless coaster, but it at least seems as if Rougarou's trains sit higher than other floorless coasters. Maybe it doesn't but it feels as if they do.

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Are people seriously coming out of the woodwork and blaming the ride's "new heartline" for it valleying? I thought everyone would have shut the hell up about the heartline after Rougarou was announced. Every coaster at Cedar Point has valleyed. It happens.

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Are people seriously coming out of the woodwork and blaming the ride's "new heartline" for it valleying? I thought everyone would have shut the hell up about the heartline after Rougarou was announced. Every coaster at Cedar Point has valleyed. It happens.

 

Not pipescream

 

Sorry sorry couldn't hold back

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Are people seriously coming out of the woodwork and blaming the ride's "new heartline" for it valleying? I thought everyone would have shut the hell up about the heartline after Rougarou was announced. Every coaster at Cedar Point has valleyed. It happens.

 

Not pipescream

 

Sorry sorry couldn't hold back

 

Believe it or not Pipescream was notorious for valleying and needed to be evacuated from the valley after the hill. If I recall correctly during parts of last season it was almost on a daily basis at times.

 

 

^ and ^^ B&Ms have an "over travel speed" and "under travel speed" alarm fault. It's a very simple fault. Going from end of block X to start of block Y should take Z seconds. If it takes more than a certain number of seconds over Z, it is going too slow. If it is more than a few seconds under Z, it is too fast. These do not e-stop the ride, because in most cases, the problem can be fixed by adjusting trim breaks, and an over/under travel alarm does not mean a catastrophic failure in it's own right. Most slow trains can still clear the circuit, and most fast trains can still be stopped by normal braking. It does however set off the master alarm and read a fault code on the display system, so the operator knew as a few seconds after the train failed to clear it's block in time, if they didn't already notice the vally.

 

What likely happened is the alarm went off for an over travel. The operator probably pushed a ride stop or lift stop until figuring out what caused it (ride stops and lift stops are very easy to reset. E-stops are not). Then, after seeing the train had vallied, they likely hit the e-stop for safety. Another possibility is that a platform worker saw the train vally and hit an e-stop near their panel.

 

Long story short, it's shocking to see a floorless coaster valley, but I guess if winds cause this at CP from time to time, it's not super shocking.

 

While I can only speak for Mantis since I'm not aware of how Rougarou's transformation changed the policies (I assume they're similar), Mantis's wind speed limit was something ridiculous like 40 mph (it was never really enforced though), but as long as it could complete block checks, the wind speed really didn't matter because they were only really concerned about cold/empty trains not making the high bank after the corkscrew after stopping completely at the block for block checks. Once the ride got done with block checks, it would pretty much run under any condition hence why it is sometimes one of the only rides in the park running. Since it valleyed before the service breaks, my guess is something weird was going on as that isn't where it's at risk of rolling back. In July it basically has 0 chance of rolling back when it can run in October when it is like 40 degrees with 35 mile an hour winds, especially when it completed the "trouble spot".

 

As for over/under speed. If I recall correctly, the ride didn't really care about the time it took to complete each block, it just cared about the speed it came into the brakes, but more importantly the speed it progressed through the brakes. I am sure there was a built in error incase the ride never completed, but even with the train crawling through the Main block, I don't recall ever getting errors for it not completing it in a designated time. This was on 2 train operations though, with 3 and an updated control system it may be different. We were always getting overspeed on the service breaks because for some reason they were never tight enough. But usually during block checks the train would not stop properly in an area either stopping too early, or too far into the brake run and the ride really didn't care.

 

As for trouble lights/errors, CP policy isn't to ride stop/E-Stop in those situations, the ride does it for you. While on some rides, like Dragster, most errors are an auto-stop, on Mantis most trouble lights would allow the ride to complete and the train to at least make it to the main breaks, for it to stop elsewhere was a large problem. Again this was on 2 trains, where it was extremely rare for a train to stop on the block, but with 3 may be more common. An overspeed is one of the situations where it would stop all trains, but an operator wouldn't hit a ride stop. For a rollback though, you probably would. You technically wouldn't have to, but people would instinctively hit it.

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Are people seriously coming out of the woodwork and blaming the ride's "new heartline" for it valleying? I thought everyone would have shut the hell up about the heartline after Rougarou was announced. Every coaster at Cedar Point has valleyed. It happens.

 

I'm curious because I don't know, but has Millennium Force ever valleyed? I just have a hard time believing it would because it hits the breaks at 50+ mph doesn't it?

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Are people seriously coming out of the woodwork and blaming the ride's "new heartline" for it valleying? I thought everyone would have shut the hell up about the heartline after Rougarou was announced. Every coaster at Cedar Point has valleyed. It happens.

 

I'm curious because I don't know, but has Millennium Force ever valleyed? I just have a hard time believing it would because it hits the breaks at 50+ mph doesn't it?

 

Several times. A test cycle train will not return from the island without water dummies on cool mornings.

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Are people seriously coming out of the woodwork and blaming the ride's "new heartline" for it valleying? I thought everyone would have shut the hell up about the heartline after Rougarou was announced. Every coaster at Cedar Point has valleyed. It happens.

 

I'm curious because I don't know, but has Millennium Force ever valleyed? I just have a hard time believing it would because it hits the breaks at 50+ mph doesn't it?

 

I remember my brother and I went to Cedar Point the second day that Millennium Force was open. We were so excited! I had been reading about the ride and its construction ever since it was announced. As soon as we got into the park we watched one of the test trains slowly stop at the top of the third hill and fall backwards. We looked at each other and said, "Oh no!" It wasn't long after that they announced MF was down for the day. I had never been so disappoipnted at a park but I certainly understood that it was a new ride and was not the parks fault. Still had a great day but we had to stare at this new beast all day knowing we couldn't ride !!

So yes Millennium Force has valleyed!

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Between the Rougarou "heartline" drinking game and the Darien Laker "Cuda Falls" drinking game this website is giving me alcohol poisoning.

What do you mean by "Cuda Valls". Dont think Ive heard that before.

 

Here's the backstory. Cuda Falls was a very old water slide complex at Darien Lake. It was known for being a maintenance nightmare and the only water slides not in the actual water park. A couple of years ago, the park decided to scrap the slides as they were rarely open anymore, and they took up a lot of space that could be used for future expansion. The site they lied on took up about 3 acres in total.

 

All of the Darien Lake fans were very excited as this could be the site for our next major attraction. Only one person was upset about this removal, and they are a user on his forum with the name "Darien Laker". Cuda Falls was to Darien Laker as 1001 Nachts is to Amy Weber. Although the slides were scrapped, Darien Laker hopes to this day that they will return from the dead and take up space elsewhere. Even if it is at another park. The name Cuda Falls is mentioned so many times that a drinking game would just be pure suicide.

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Are people seriously coming out of the woodwork and blaming the ride's "new heartline" for it valleying? I thought everyone would have shut the hell up about the heartline after Rougarou was announced. Every coaster at Cedar Point has valleyed. It happens.

 

I'm curious because I don't know, but has Millennium Force ever valleyed? I just have a hard time believing it would because it hits the breaks at 50+ mph doesn't it?

 

It's not about how fast it hits the brakes though, it's about the slowest points on the ride which are the hills on and off of the island (as has been mentioned). The ride flat out crawls over those on cold mornings and since they're so tall the wind can make it even worse if blowing the wrong direction.

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As for over/under speed. If I recall correctly, the ride didn't really care about the time it took to complete each block, it just cared about the speed it came into the brakes, but more importantly the speed it progressed through the brakes. I am sure there was a built in error incase the ride never completed, but even with the train crawling through the Main block, I don't recall ever getting errors for it not completing it in a designated time

 

I would be very shocked if Mantis/Rougarou do not have speed fault alarms. They've been around forever. However, the train needs to SERIOUSLY violate the parameters before it goes off. The only time I've ever seen one go off was during a malfunction of the Alpengeist crown trims. For some reasons, they lodged closed, and we're holding the trains so long they sat on the crown trim for easily 20 seconds before slugging through. When they finally got to the block brakes, we got the master alarm and an error code that said something like "block travel underspeed alert, travel time too high." Never saw it for block testing or anything else. That's when I learned all about block timers etc. The ride did not initiate a ride stop, and let us continue dispatching to unload guests. All three trains we let go through (the first, then two empties) hung on the crown forever, then set off that fault.

 

Thinking about it, it's possible in a valley the alarm would not go off, if one of the parameters does indeed involved reaching the next block. Hard to say. I haven't worked a coaster in over a decade to be fair!

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So I was looking at the Fantawild Construction thread, and I saw something that would be amazing for Cedar Point!

 

Time To Dream:

 

As much as we would all love for Cedar Point to give Mean Streak the RMC treatment (And we all pretty much know that it will eventually happen anyway.) I would LOVE to see Cedar Point build a bigger better version of

 

That way Cedar Point could get rid of the awful Mean Streak, and still have a REAL wooden coaster, and something amazing!!

 

Well... we can dream right?!

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^^I wonder if RMC would be willing to use topper track on a transformation? That way Cedar Point would have a great wooden coaster for the price of a hybrid transformation.

You mean like RMC just did on Timber Wolf?

GCI worked on Timber Wolf, from what I've heard. And they didn't actually change the layout, they are just re-tracking it.

 

I believe that Firechaser meant do an Iron Horse conversion, but instead of using I-box track, use topper track.

 

I'm sure that RMC would do that if a park wanted them to, I just don't think that a park would choose to do that.

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I think i-box transformation is the only logical move for Mean Streak. Topper track might make the ride smoother, but it'll still have that long, drawn-out, boring layout. With i-box they could steepen the drop to about 80 degrees, shorten the track length about 1,000-1,400 feet, and chop down the height of the structure after the first drop about 30%-50%.

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^ I wouldn't want to see them ditch height or length. Think of how much better they've gotten at conversions since The New Texas Giant! I bet they could add some crazy inversions and stalls onto the Mean Streak Layout!

 

Yeah, but if you take away some length and height after the first drop...you get more airrtime and a more intense ride overall. If the ride is too long, then it'll will start to meander due to loss of momentum.

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^ I wouldn't want to see them ditch height or length. Think of how much better they've gotten at conversions since The New Texas Giant! I bet they could add some crazy inversions and stalls onto the Mean Streak Layout!

 

Yeah, but if you take away some length and height after the first drop...you get more airrtime and a more intense ride overall. If the ride is too long, then it'll will start to meander due to loss of momentum.

 

I have never heard of an RMC coaster meandering due to loss of momentum. Texas Giant was pretty similar to Mean Streak before its makeover, and it doesn't meander through the course due to loss of momentum now. You get plenty of airtime, and the ride is over all pretty intense.

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^ I wouldn't want to see them ditch height or length. Think of how much better they've gotten at conversions since The New Texas Giant! I bet they could add some crazy inversions and stalls onto the Mean Streak Layout!

 

Yeah, but if you take away some length and height after the first drop...you get more airrtime and a more intense ride overall. If the ride is too long, then it'll will start to meander due to loss of momentum.

 

I have never heard of an RMC coaster meandering due to loss of momentum. Texas Giant was pretty similar to Mean Streak before its makeover, and it doesn't meander through the course due to loss of momentum now. You get plenty of airtime, and the ride is over all pretty intense.

 

Wicked Cyclone definitely looses momentum and speed probably the last third of the ride. Never the less, it is still insane. The ride isn't as tall as Mean Streak, so it won't loose momentum, but I was just pointing out a ride I knew fit the bill.

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^ I wouldn't want to see them ditch height or length. Think of how much better they've gotten at conversions since The New Texas Giant! I bet they could add some crazy inversions and stalls onto the Mean Streak Layout!

 

Yeah, but if you take away some length and height after the first drop...you get more airrtime and a more intense ride overall. If the ride is too long, then it'll will start to meander due to loss of momentum.

 

I have never heard of an RMC coaster meandering due to loss of momentum. Texas Giant was pretty similar to Mean Streak before its makeover, and it doesn't meander through the course due to loss of momentum now. You get plenty of airtime, and the ride is over all pretty intense.

 

And you do realize that almost 1,000ft of track length was removed from Texas Giant right?

 

To add, many of the rides hills after the first drop were lowered about 20-30% if you look at before and after pictures.

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^^I wonder if RMC would be willing to use topper track on a transformation? That way Cedar Point would have a great wooden coaster for the price of a hybrid transformation.

You mean like RMC just did on Timber Wolf?

GCI worked on Timber Wolf, from what I've heard. And they didn't actually change the layout, they are just re-tracking it.

 

I believe that Firechaser meant do an Iron Horse conversion, but instead of using I-box track, use topper track.

 

I'm sure that RMC would do that if a park wanted them to, I just don't think that a park would choose to do that.

I remember hearing that RMC completely overhauled TW with topper track, but without changing the layout whatsoever.

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