blk_mamba Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Just from an visual standpoint having that vertical drop and most likely a large immelmann loop to follow will look great in the pictures and add to feeling that you are driving up to an island full of roller coasters! I still HOPE it is going to a record breaking 500ft tall coaster but I doubt they will want to drawf MF. Either way what ever they are building is going to require a lot of space! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkFunk Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The advantages dive machines have over the competition is obvious; capacity, reliability, safety record. I think the arguments being put forth about them being rendered obsolete are applicable to Oblivion (which is, frankly, not that good a ride) but much less applicable to all the recent-ish installs in Italy, Germany, and the US. For what they're looking to build (full circuit multi inversion vertical drop coaster) this is an exceptionally solid, if not straight up best choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil009 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) The advantages dive machines have over the competition is obvious; capacity, reliability, safety record. Couldn't this be said of all of B&M's coasters/ride styles? I think it's clear B&M is going to be their choice of manufacturer regardless of what the ride ends up being, I'm just slightly disappointed B&M hasn't come up with any other new and exciting concepts for one of their biggest clients since the wing coasters. "OK B&M, it's time for a new ride. What else ya got?" "Well, these dive coasters used to be a big deal." "Sure, I'll take it, just make sure it's the tallest one you've built so far." Edited June 22, 2015 by neil009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_mamba Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The advantages dive machines have over the competition is obvious; capacity, reliability, safety record. I think the arguments being put forth about them being rendered obsolete are applicable to Oblivion (which is, frankly, not that good a ride) but much less applicable to all the recent-ish installs in Italy, Germany, and the US. For what they're looking to build (full circuit multi inversion vertical drop coaster) this is an exceptionally solid, if not straight up best choice. I think you are right and given they have such a strong and diverse collection at some point you hit the "what do we add next" wall. What are the parks true deficiencies coaster wise (deficient not meaning you don't like it like just that they don't have it). One thing they don't have is a RMC hybrid even though some would argue Gemini is the original hybrid! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grsupercity Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The advantages dive machines have over the competition is obvious; capacity, reliability, safety record. I think the arguments being put forth about them being rendered obsolete are applicable to Oblivion (which is, frankly, not that good a ride) but much less applicable to all the recent-ish installs in Italy, Germany, and the US. For what they're looking to build (full circuit multi inversion vertical drop coaster) this is an exceptionally solid, if not straight up best choice. I think you are right and given they have such a strong and diverse collection at some point you hit the "what do we add next" wall. What are the parks true deficiencies coaster wise (deficient not meaning you don't like it like just that they don't have it). One thing they don't have is a RMC hybrid even though some would argue Gemini is the original hybrid! lol Flyer and 4th dem. Those would make 100% rounded (with a proper woodie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Flyer and 4th dem. Those would make 100% rounded (with a proper woodie) Having both an Invert & Wing coaster, a flyer would be a bit repetitive. A Dive coaster is the most unique style left in the B&M collection for CP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grsupercity Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Flyer and 4th dem. Those would make 100% rounded (with a proper woodie) Having both an Invert & Wing coaster, a flyer would be a bit repetitive. A Dive coaster is the most unique style left in the B&M collection for CP. I find a dive coaster to be more similar to a wingrider then I do a flyer to an invert. The styles of trains on divers and wingers make for long easy transitions. A flyer would have the most unique layout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbatboy Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 A flyer would definitely be the most unique B&M CP could install. A dive machine is basically another floorless/wing coaster with a vertical drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenbowl Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I have a feeling it won't be anything we are even thinking of. I could see them getting a B&M, but I think it would be a lot more unique than people here are hypothesizing. I could also see them not getting a B&M too, but it is exciting to wait and see! That said, out of B&M's current catalog of coasters, I would 100% prefer a Dive Coaster over everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkFunk Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 For what it is that management seems to desire most, throughput and reliability are very high on that scale. A dive machine gives them something different plus those two things in spades. There's a bunch of rides the park could get - they could get a spinning coaster, for instance - that would be new and different. But being conservative after repeatedly buying clunkers and maintenance nightmares year after year after year is the smartest thing for them to do right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoinItForTheFame Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Wow, that was a lot of dive machine discussion. My opinion on dive machines is that they are great coasters. The holding brake at the top is something the GP loves, and they eat it up. It's a great feature and it is one of those true "Oh Sh!t! Restraint don't fail me now!" Moments. Dive machines have some great airtime on the first drop, (and the second drop on SheiKra, and Griffon) especially in the back row. If Cedar Point does end up getting a dive machine, we all know it will be taller than any other dive machine out there, which would create an amazing first drop in itself. I highly doubt Cedar Point would get a "cookie cutter" dive machine, or any dive machine with a layout similar to what's already out there. That's not Cedar Points style. I like anyone else on here would love to see them get a 500ft i305 style coaster, but regardless of what they build... it is Cedar Point, and it will be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Wow, that was a lot of dive machine discussion. My opinion on dive machines is that they are great coasters. The holding brake at the top is something the GP loves, and they eat it up. It's a great feature and it is one of those true "Oh Sh!t! Restraint don't fail me now!" Moments. Dive machines have some great airtime on the first drop, (and the second drop on SheiKra, and Griffon) especially in the back row. If Cedar Point does end up getting a dive machine, we all know it will be taller than any other dive machine out there, which would create an amazing first drop in itself. I highly doubt Cedar Point would get a "cookie cutter" dive machine, or any dive machine with a layout similar to what's already out there. That's not Cedar Points style. I like anyone else on here would love to see them get a 500ft i305 style coaster, but regardless of what they build... it is Cedar Point, and it will be amazing. Thank you, people are seriously overlooking the "wow" factor of the holding brake... I mean seriously overlooking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The advantages dive machines have over the competition is obvious; capacity, reliability, safety record. Couldn't this be said of all of B&M's coasters/ride styles? I think it's clear B&M is going to be their choice of manufacturer regardless of what the ride ends up being, I'm just slightly disappointed B&M hasn't come up with any other new and exciting concepts for one of their biggest clients since the wing coasters. "OK B&M, it's time for a new ride. What else ya got?" "Well, these dive coasters used to be a big deal." "Sure, I'll take it, just make sure it's the tallest one you've built so far." It still astonishes me that out of the near 100 coasters that B&M has built, not one has closed yet. Even the old stand-ups like Mantis and Vortex were close, but now can become great rides again with the floorless trains. However, B&M does have some limitations. Cost is a big one. Compared to what Intamin can build in a set amount of money, B&M probably would fail to meet a similar design with that amount and not be as forceful either. Plus B&M has always been the second manufacturer to introduce elements (modernly speaking). They were second to agree to build 300+ feet, and took over 20 years to make their first launching coaster. If a park wants something totally new or record breaking, Intamin has usually been called for, even if it involves technical bugs frequently. Look at TTD. Despite it being so inconsistent, over 10 years later it is still in operation and can still do what is required to make it rideable. I'm pretty sure that this project will be a B&M unless it is something truly unique and possibly record breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grsupercity Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 ^ B&M was the third to market giga coasters (after Intamin and Chance morgan) but thats just splitting hairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellynn4 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Flyer and 4th dem. Those would make 100% rounded (with a proper woodie) Having both an Invert & Wing coaster, a flyer would be a bit repetitive. SFGAm has a Flyer, a Wing, and an Invert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CpBluestreakCp Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 While Dive Machines are great coasters, it just wouldn't give me that "WOW" factor. They're fun rides, don't get me wrong but they just don't have that "OMFG" after getting off feeling. An RMC coming to Cedar Point would have that or another Intamin. Of course I'm perfectly okay with a Dive Machine, it'll be a fun ride to have at the park for years to come. But there is always this hidden hope it'll be something more for 2016... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Flyer and 4th dem. Those would make 100% rounded (with a proper woodie) Having both an Invert & Wing coaster, a flyer would be a bit repetitive. SFGAm has a Flyer, a Wing, and an Invert. This is true. The point is, there all advertised as; Nothing above, nothing below.An unprecedented feeling of freedom An unparalleled flying experience with guests in a prone position Dangling feet as well as outside loops and inversions provide a unique ride experience. With Wicked Twister & Iron Dragon, along with the previously mentioned GateKeeper and Raptor, you can only sell the "total freedom/ flight" gimmick so many times. It is true that a flyer provides a unique ride experience, along with the previously mentioned ones. And I also prefer flyers over Dive coasters. However, the Dive coaster would help diversify Cedar Point's lineup further than what a flying coaster could. Which is the argument the quote is based upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Warrior Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Rougarou was advertised as the park's first floor less coaster, even though the park already had 4 coasters without floors. They can find a way possible to market a dive coaster. I find it funny that enthusiasts always complain that parks only build "gimmicky" rides, and then a park finally may be putting in a ride that doesn't focus on breaking height/speed records and everybody complains. Seriously, stop complaining about a new coaster when there are plenty of parks in real need of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Rougarou was advertised as the park's first floor less coaster, even though the park already had 4 coasters without floors. They can find a way possible to market a dive coaster. Well, that is because Rougarou is an official floorless coaster model. The others are a different type of coaster entirely and happen to have no floor. It is possible to market anything with the right people behind it, as anything new to GP would be received positively. The argument is question though, begs the question as to what would be the better choice; Flyer or Dive, when it comes to diversity. And my choice is going to the dive coaster. This is based upon; 1.) The current size of the possible location next to Celebration Plaza, 2.) A Dive coaster, in my personal opinion, would be the best choice from B&M to diversify the park out of all the other offerings from B&M when option #1 is taken into consideration. I find it funny that enthusiasts always complain that parks only build "gimmicky" rides, and then a park finally may be putting in a ride that doesn't focus on breaking height/speed records and everybody complains. Seriously, stop complaining about a new coaster when there are plenty of parks in real need of one. This is a shame. I don't really see why anyone would complain about getting a new coaster, unless it's a Vekoma. Just for the record, I'm not complaining about anything. Edited June 22, 2015 by JonnyRCT3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoinItForTheFame Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Thank you, people are seriously overlooking the "wow" factor of the holding brake... I mean seriously overlooking it. I could not agree more. I have been on SheiKra and Griffon hundreds of times each, and each time I get an "Oh Sh!T" moment as the train just hangs there waiting to drop. The entire point of a dive coaster is the anticipation hanging there waiting to drop. That is what makes the ride what it is. That is what sets the ride apart from all the other coasters out there. It is like taking Falcons Fury, and combining it with a roller coaster. You get a really slow climb up, then you are put in a face first position, and dropped straight down... into a fun coaster layout. Dive coasters are not designed to be killer airtime machines, or mega inversion coasters. They are designed to scare people by playing on their fear of heights, by dangling them over a vertical drop at (for most of the GP) staggering heights. And that is just what they do. While no dive coasters are not the most "extreme, fast paced, airtime filled, inversion filled, forceful, fastest, or longest" coasters out there, they are by far some of the smoothest, most reliable, they are something the GP loves, they are fun, they are VERY re-rideable, and they are just as thrilling every time you ride them. Do I think that Cedar Point could come up with something more "extreme?" Yes. But maybe that is not what they are looking for right now. Maybe they are looking for something that is everything a dive coaster is, then again maybe they are not. Maybe they are not even getting a dive coaster at all. We won't know until they announce it. So what is the point about complaining about what the park may or may NOT be getting? Complaining is not going to change anything. A dive coaster is not like anything else the park has now. It is not like a floorless coaster, it is not like a wing-coaster, it is not like an inverted coaster, it is nothing like Wicked Twister, or Iron Dragon, or Mean Streak, or Magnum, or Maverick, or Top Thrill Dragster, or any other coasters in the park that people are trying to compare them to simply because they think that a dive coaster is to "boring" to "not extreme" to "similar to what they already have" to "not cutting edge enough." As I wrap up this rant I can not help but to find myself wondering how many people complaining about this *could be dive coaster coming to Cedar Point* have actually BEEN ON A DIVE COASTER, because if they had, they should know: Dive Coaster + Cedar Point = No Reason To Complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koasterking48 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Those who have ridden a dive coaster (myself included) are more than likely excited about another being built. They are excellent rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoinItForTheFame Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Those who have ridden a dive coaster (myself included) are more than likely excited about another being built. They are excellent rides. Exactly what I was trying to say. Those who have ridden dive coasters should be excited about another being built, because like you said, "they are excellent rides." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyowl1028 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 While Dive Machines are great coasters, it just wouldn't give me that "WOW" factor. They're fun rides, don't get me wrong but they just don't have that "OMFG" after getting off feeling. An RMC coming to Cedar Point would have that or another Intamin. Of course I'm perfectly okay with a Dive Machine, it'll be a fun ride to have at the park for years to come. But there is always this hidden hope it'll be something more for 2016... A 252 foot record breaking DIVE MACHINE isn't enough for one year??? This is aimed directly at you but this whole discussion is eye rolling because even how is a surely unique and awesome dive machine barely enough or not enough for one year. Especially since you have just gotten 1.5 coasters in the last three years. Not just the GP but i'm sure 99% of coaster enthusiasts would be more than satisfied with this. I know this is CP but this is still pretty ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Password121 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 While Dive Machines are great coasters, it just wouldn't give me that "WOW" factor. They're fun rides, don't get me wrong but they just don't have that "OMFG" after getting off feeling. An RMC coming to Cedar Point would have that or another Intamin. Of course I'm perfectly okay with a Dive Machine, it'll be a fun ride to have at the park for years to come. But there is always this hidden hope it'll be something more for 2016... A 252 foot record breaking DIVE MACHINE isn't enough for one year??? This is aimed directly at you but this whole discussion is eye rolling because even how is a surely unique and awesome dive machine barely enough or not enough for one year. Especially since you have just gotten 1.5 coasters in the last three years. Not just the GP but i'm sure 99% of coaster enthusiasts would be more than satisfied with this. I know this is CP but this is still pretty ridiculous. You're really misunderstanding his post. By "something more," the poster you just tried to bash is intending to say "something greater," or "better," not "in addition to a Dive machine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
certifiedcoastergeek Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Seriously, stop complaining about a new coaster when there are plenty of parks in real need of one. *hate comments incoming in t-minus ten minutes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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