Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[Wes]

This whole "Gatekeeper" thing has me waxing nostalgic about an old hilarious board game called "Nightmare" we used to play.

 

 

You don't know how much I love you right now.

[Skycoastin Steve]

^

 

What an amazing game. YES, MY GATEKEEPA!!!!

[ride6]

From what I could tell on Maxair and Raptor today it appears the old bobsled track is being removed in sections similar to how it was originally assembled. The wreckage is from the building that actually enclosed everything. To some extent I hope the ride itself gets relocated unless it had become a giant maintenance headache. Cedar Fair certainly has some parks that could use a coaster, even if it's something "meh". Similarly I think they should probably start relocating some of crap-show at Canada's Wonderland to Michigan's Adventure (or something) to make way for more growth there too, but that's probably just me.

 

Regardless the site they're working with, including the bit of the parking lot that's closed off, appears to be massive. There's been a lot of talk of them reformatting the whole area, so I think new shops/restaurants/flats/etc are in order over the next couple of years. I would be rather shocked if it's all solidified by this coming season but I could be wrong. It seems like an extensive project and there might even be another coaster planned into it for down the road (5 years or something). Meanwhile there's also construction back in Mean Streak's queue area to facilitate the Halloweekend Haunt(s) that otherwise would've been in DT's old building.

 

And if Cedar Point is truly concerned about improving the overall experience they could take those awful, hard, "visual security" straps off Maverick and put on the fabric "racing harnesses" similar to those found on I-305. It would improve the ride MASSIVELY. I'm seriously thinking about starting a petition about this. On the plus side the ride would be safer (no more minor head/neck/earring injures) and VASTLY more comfortable. The only downside is loading times, but I honestly don't think those would get much worse... I rode I-305 11 times inside of 2 hours... Doing the same on Maverick (not that it's possible with the lines) would probably mean a slipped disk in my neck...

 

They should also run Mean Streak with minimal brakes and just invest heavily in track repairs and structural reinforcements. I got a few rides about two weeks ago with no brakes on the first drop and minimal trims at the mid-course and a strange thing happened: it was smooth. Or about as smooth a huge wooden coasters get anyway. Smoother than American Eagle (which I'd ridden only a week before) and basically in class with where Shivering Timbers was last year. Without those brakes Mean Streak even had some... wait for it... airtime! Often at surprising and unexpected moments at the tops of hills going into turns. I was genuinely quite pleased and since it always has short lines I figured I'd be giving it a go for the rest of the year: WRONG! The ride today was braked absolutely to death... it nearly rolled back and it was brutally, cruelly, astonishingly, and indeed, painfully R-R-R-ROUGH anytime it wasn't almost stalling out. At least I know I wasn't lied to when a ride op told me a couple weeks ago "the faster it runs, the smoother it is. But we're not supposed to do that because it rips it's track up." :-/ The management needs to make their mind up: pony up the cash and keep 'er running right (minimal to no trim brakes) or remove it. With the brakes on it's possibly the worst coastering experiences I've ever come across... with them backed off, it's an above average wooden coaster, that could be exceptional with minor reprofiling (particularly in the 2nd half to reduce laterals and increase airtime) and modifications to the cars (replace the hard plastic/rubber padding with real... PADDING)...

[Intimidator305]

"GateKeeper" makes sense with the whole renovation of the gates, flying over the gates, and being at the front of the park deal. "GateKeeper" is also a good name because it compliments the name of its future neighbor, WindSeeker!

[JamesMC]

A Keyhole is an object that the train flies through in it's course, usually during an inversion. Check out any you tube video for X-Flight at Six Flags Great America (POV- preferred) and you will see what I mean. Here the "keyhole" is where the train is rotating 360 degrees in a slower fashion through a tower whereby you as a rider feel that the train seemingly will not "fit" in the space it has to traverse. In other words, it's a "headchopper" but not in a linear sense where the train is beneath you on a flat surface. It is a spatially rotated headchopper (or in the case of X-Flight, a "bodychopper"). Hope that helps. If not, take two aspirin and call your Dr. in the A.M.

[jwil]

Haven't been to CP since 2008, but before any news had broken out about this new coaster I was already planning a trip for next summer. Guess it is good timing! The whole gargoyle themed-ride is an interesting idea, but I just wonder how well a CF park can pull off the entirety of the theming.

 

Clearly the parking lot leaves the most room for expansion, but I still think they would do well to get rid of Mean Streak as that would free up quite a bit of space as well. At the very least they could put in a more modern wood coaster with some thrills to it. Apologies to fans of the ride, but with all the brakes on it I just never thought it was a worthwhile attraction.

[GayCoasterGuy]

After re-riding X-Flight again yesterday (front and back, it was a walk-on again) I'm just thinking - if this new CP ride is *really* going to be a wing-rider model, it had best be loaded with lots of cool stuff. I'm thinking trenches, tunnels, lights, fog, fly-throughs, whatever... b/c X-Flight just isn't holding much water - even with the "GP."

 

But at the same time I have to remember that anything CP is very well sucked up by the GP there and the hordes of CP "fanboys." Something in the Kool-Aid I heard. I mean, I just don't get the love for Maverick. It hurts like hell. Would be GREAT with out those stupid shoulder/neck karate-chop noodles. But there you have it. It's at CP so it *MUST* be good.

 

I just wish that would have worked to keep Wildcat (I mean buy a brand new one from Gerstlauer). That was simply the funnest coaster left there...

 

/ducks...

[coasterfreak101]

I'm not a fanboy by any means, but Maverick was pretty much tied for my number one spot (with El Toro) until Skyrush came along. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that the only people that do are the local crazies! Not all of us drank the Kool-Aid - some of us really do like rides for what they are, not the park they're in.

 

I definitely agree with what you said about how this needs to have a whole lot of cool stuff going on. X-Flight does a decent job for being generic, but there's really no competition to what Gardaland did with Raptor. I'm sure Cedar Point will do something much more like X-Flight, but it'd be nice to see this gargoyle theme (though I absolutely hate this Gatekeeper name), if it's going to happen, be carried out to full effect.

[GayCoasterGuy]

I'm not a fanboy by any means, but Maverick was pretty much tied for my number one spot (with El Toro) until Skyrush came along. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that the only people that do are the local crazies! Not all of us drank the Kool-Aid - some of us really do like rides for what they are, not the park they're in.

 

Good point. But the thing about Kool-aid drinkers is they really don't realize they drank it. That's a wholenother topic

 

In my own right, I guess I'm an Anton Kool-aid drinker, and a Holiday World Kool-aid drinker. But heck, the Kool-aid at HW is free! (I mean "included with price.")

 

I'll admit... I think I may just have been snubbing the Point. I was all about CP when I worked there, and a little after... but the way things are - how CP dominates the media and the moment anyone finds out I'm into coasters I have to hear "OMG - have you ever been to Cedar Point!" I guess it's just my own little annoying resentment. I've been busted. Or busted myself. My emotional reaction to the over-hype that CP gets. I'll admit, as of last summer, it's still the best run of all the big thrill parks.

 

I'm off the Great America now; it's Whizzer's "ACE Landmark presentation" day. I glad GAm is my home park

 

/ducks impending ACE bashing

[Geauga Dog]

I glad GAm is my home park

 

I'd gladly trade you CP for GAm as my home park but seeing how you feel about the Point, and I totally understand where you're coming from, that won't happen. I don't get the infatuation that the fanboys have for that place. I'm not a fan but count me in as one who thinks Maverick is the best ride there.

 

I'm not getting my hopes up that Cedar Fair will really "do something" with this new ride. The most that we can look forward to is some newfangled inversion that would be a first on a wing coaster along with a record breaking height for this style of ride.

[prozach626]

Maybe it's because I've been to too many six flags parks, but Cedar Point is still number one for me. A lot of their roller coasters aren't mind blowing, but they all have better than average quality, aside from disaster transport, which is gone. The park in general is well maintained and it has a great atmosphere. It's the only park I've been to where it feels like a vacation in itself, especially if you over pay and stay at one of the "resorts" on the island.

 

Great America is also a great park, which is why it's tied with King's Island for my 2nd favorite park, but I feel like the experience is a lot different from CP. Great America owned by Cedar Fair would probably yield a different outcome.

[ride6]

It's kinda strange having Cedar Point be my "home park" (though it's still a 2-hour drive) considering that going there still can feel like and event; which isn't true of a lot of other parks. I think most of that is thanks to the highly novel location on a peninsula (I believe it connects back to the mainland, even without the causeway, though only barely) and the shear scale of the place. Some parks have skylines, but Cedar Point is probably the only one I've witnessed that really looks like it's own "roller coaster city".

 

I agree that Midwesterners (Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, at least), have a serious bias about the place. Clearly everything they build is the biggest and best of it's type, ever! /s Which, for what it's worth, is often true (at least statistically) at the time of opening. Almost every ride at Cedar Point has been surpassed elsewhere, but since they haven't all been surpassed at the same place the GP still buy into the whole "coaster capital" thing, for better or worse. The only really sad part is that people seem to think wooden coasters are automatically either small (Blue Streak) or so rough that they almost invite class-action lawsuits (Mean Streak, with the brakes on at least).

 

It also seems, statistically speaking, that Cedar Point has reached it's plateau. Regardless of further expansion (or lack thereof) attendance numbers are remaining approximately steady year-to-year. Personally I don't think that's likely to remain true next year. I think a lot of it is the effect of the new additions being perceived as insignificant (Shoot the Rapids, Windseeker) and/or the lack of reliability of Dragster for years sorta spoiling people's drive to go and risk the disappointment of shut downs...

[Tbcoasterfan]

I roll my eyes at these over-generalizations.

Also in my opinion, anyone that complains about Macerick being painful to ride, doesn't know how to ride it properly.

[ECZenith]

CoasterGuy, I can completely see your point and there's no need to duck. I have a feeling this coaster will do at least one unique trick that will make it special. It's almost a given the ride will have keyholes as speculated, it seems to be a major feature for WingRiders.

 

Since everyone else is speculating and wishing as enthusiasts should... I'm hoping this ride has more of a Wild Eagle-esque layout, with the traditional style drop versus the slower, inverting drop, just seems like more fun. I'm also hoping the ride will introduce an inversion new to the wingrider concept, like a batwing or a cobra roll.

 

We know it's going to be at least 145' tall (from the Mantis teaser) and I can't imagine it would be much bigger or the park may have compared its size to Magnum or a larger ride. Wild Eagle stands just over 200' with a 135' drop due to the terrain, a coaster like this with a drop into a trench or tunnel would be amazing with these trains... I can dream.

 

With this project being rumored to fly over the gate, I'm willing to bet it will stand out and be a nice piece of eye-candy as you enter, whether or not they theme it thoroughly will be interesting to see. With all this speculation of names themed to gargoyles, gatekeeper, monsters, etc. I am just as excited to find out the name and story of this ride as I am to see the layout!

[Schrecken]

I roll my eyes at these over-generalizations.

Also in my opinion, anyone that complains about Macerick being painful to ride, doesn't know how to ride it properly.

 

 

I think a huge part of whether or not a ride like Maverick is painful has to do with one's height. Same with Arrow loopers. I'm guessing that many, if not most people, who like the ride are relatively tall. I am able to ride most Arrow loopers defensively enough that I can avoid most, if not all, the head-banging, but it takes a lot of effort and for me it really isn't worth it for multiple rides. However, this past July I rode Maverick in the front seat and sadly it was one ride that I was truly wishing for it to be over - my ears were on fire when I got off. I'm 5'3" so that puts my ears right at the level of the OTSRs, and the transitions were just too quick and too hard for me to avoid being bashed (says something for the slow corkscrew transitions on Arrow loopers, at least you have time to prepare!).

 

That said, if it had restraints like I-305 I think it would be a lot of fun. Otherwise, it's on my "do not ride" list for now, and probably forever if they don't fix the OTSRs.

[CpBluestreakCp]

Maverick doesn't give me head banging...it gives me neck banging since I'm a bit taller than most. It's still a fun ride, nevertheless. At least try to brace yourself on the ride and it will turn out to be much more enjoyable. And there is a reason it's called "Maverick". You just have to know the ride and where it can whip you. First time riders aren't as fortunate when riding since they won't know the exact areas. I ride in preparation of certain elements and love it, I guess it just depends on the rider.

[DougMJr]

5'10" here. And have never had an issue with Maverick. It must be a height thing.

[Tbcoasterfan]

Height I agree can be a factor, but you can over come it. When I was younger I used to not really care for Mantis cause it used to pound my head in the twisty section. Like I do on Maverick, I started moving my head in anticipation of the turn or twist and the problem is gone. I'm 5'10" and my head is well above Mavericks shoulder harness. I still however move my body in anticipation, because if I just sat there like a wet noodle, yeah you could get beat up. Even if you don't want to do what I do you can still brace yourself by holding the top of each harness and brace yourself. I do agree that I-305's re-straints would probably be more comfortable, but I don't think the current ones are bad.

[Skycoastin Steve]

I'm 6'5" and I love Maverick. In fact, it's my #4 steel coaster. Does it make my neck sore sometimes? Sure, but it's really not THAT bad.

[99er]

Also in my opinion, anyone that complains about Macerick being painful to ride, doesn't know how to ride it properly.

The only proper way to ride should be to sit down and enjoy. There shouldn't be any work done to properly ride a coaster just so it can be enjoyable.

[triggernel]

Also in my opinion, anyone that complains about Macerick being painful to ride, doesn't know how to ride it properly.

The only proper way to ride should be to sit down and enjoy. There shouldn't be any work done to properly ride a coaster just so it can be enjoyable.

 

Why though? I think most people would prefer the aggressive forces that force you to ride defensively.

[Fahrenheit1221]

Maverick is unquestionably the roughest ride I've ever ridden. It left my head/neck a lot more sore than Son of Beast beat up my knees/legs. The two Stengel dives are easily the most painful part with the turn after the launch being a close third. Just because it's rough doesn't mean I don't love it because it's in my top 3 as well. It's just extremely intense and forceful and was designed as such.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Fahrenheit1221

[Tbcoasterfan]

Maverick is unquestionably the roughest ride I've ever ridden. It left my head/neck a lot more sore than Son of Beast beat up my knees/legs. The two Stengel dives are easily the most painful part with the turn after the launch being a close third. Just because cause it's rought doesn't mean I don't love it because it's in my top 3 as well. It's just extremely intense and forceful and was designed as such.

 

Son of Beast always got some nerve in my back every time and I just could never enjoy it. Even when they switched to the new trains and took out the loop.

I'd be lying if I said Maverick hasn't bruised me. If I hold my arms up I'll use my inner arms to brace me laterally in the harness and they'll get bruised because of that. I still love it. I still think even of you don't want to lean in anticipation of the turn, as long as you how the top curve of the shoulder harness, you should be able to hold yourself still. If you do the lean thing though, you don't even need to hang on! Now that's fun IMO.

[coasterfreak101]

Since everyone else is speculating and wishing as enthusiasts should... I'm hoping this ride has more of a Wild Eagle-esque layout, with the traditional style drop versus the slower, inverting drop, just seems like more fun. I'm also hoping the ride will introduce an inversion new to the wingrider concept, like a batwing or a cobra roll.

 

We know it's going to be at least 145' tall (from the Mantis teaser) and I can't imagine it would be much bigger or the park may have compared its size to Magnum or a larger ride. Wild Eagle stands just over 200' with a 135' drop due to the terrain, a coaster like this with a drop into a trench or tunnel would be amazing with these trains... I can dream.

 

With this project being rumored to fly over the gate, I'm willing to bet it will stand out and be a nice piece of eye-candy as you enter, whether or not they theme it thoroughly will be interesting to see. With all this speculation of names themed to gargoyles, gatekeeper, monsters, etc. I am just as excited to find out the name and story of this ride as I am to see the layout!

 

Have we decided that this isn't the layout? I was under the impression that this was it. If it is, then it kicks off with a 175-foot dive loop off the lift straight into an immelmann, and most likely will do a roll across the main gate. My best guess off of this would be dive loop, immelmann, zero-G, corkscrew, dive loop, zero-G, zero-G.

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/sandusky/belaboring-point/cedar-point/blog-cedar-points-wing-coaster-answers-enthusiasts-prayer

[coasternut]

Also in my opinion, anyone that complains about Macerick being painful to ride, doesn't know how to ride it properly.

The only proper way to ride should be to sit down and enjoy. There shouldn't be any work done to properly ride a coaster just so it can be enjoyable.

 

I agree, I like to ride with my arms up and not have to think about or anticipate the ride. I like to let the ride "have it's way with me." Maverick was the first ride of this type that has the Intamin "QDC - quick direction changes." I'm not a fan of those at all. Yes, the I305 restraints would be an improvement for Maverick.

 

Can you imagine how painful this ride could've been in it's original configuration? There was some QDC coming right out of the acceleration tunnel that was removed before the ride was opened. Intamin re-profiled that curve so it "wouldn't be too rough on the trains." What would that have done to the riders???

 

I've got high hopes for the new ride being announced at the Point on Monday. I didn't like their last coaster - Maverick soon to be almost 6 years ago...