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Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread


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Someone please tell me the technique for snapping? How do you do it?

 

For Larson flyers, assuming you're right handed grab the sail with your left hand and turn it at a 23 degree angle until the ride really gets going. Then once it does (still using your left hand) jerk the sail all the way to the right and dive down. Simultaneously with your right hand pull out your iphone and open up "maps". Then type in "Knoebels Amusement Resort". Let it get you directions.

 

While it's calculating the directions do whatever with the sail because seriously who cares... once the ride stops use a key to push in the hole in the ridiculously stupid safety seatbelt so you can get out of the ride, go to the car, don't get a hand stamp on the way out and drive to Knoebels.

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With all due respect to those locals complaining about Valleyfair:

 

-You have access to rides all year long. Not just any rides - we're not talking Boa Squeeze/Python Pits - there's full size and rare flat rides, a Eurofighter, a big themed log flume, all that junk, open 365 nearby.

 

-You have possibly the best fair in the US in your city. It has a Intamin/Biro Observation tower, a wacky rafting ride, an Old Mill, and most of the major flat rides, fun houses, and coasters on the road. And incredible food.

 

-Valleyfair has a hyper coaster, two wood coasters (one of which is a solid GCI), a nice attached water park, a funky/rad Arrow Mine Train style coaster, and an Impulse.

 

Yes, I'm sure you'd like to get a Giga Coaster or a B&M Invert or whatever, but be realistic for a moment. You have awesome stuff around you. If you don't like Valleyfair that much and the flyers don't do it for you, you actually have alternatives. Most markets don't! It is OK. Really.

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I still hope to make it to this park next year, flyers or not. I'm thinking of an expansive trip--VF, Nick, Wisconsin Dells, Adventureland, SFStL, and WoF--all of which will be new to me.

Couple of questions...

Is Arnold's worth going out of the way for?

Is Excalibur still being seen as going away sometime soon?

 

I would sit down with Mapquest and do the routing out without Arnold's and do it with. If you're adding 5 hours of driving, maybe it isn't.

 

Of note to you:

 

Near Arnold's is Boji Bay Conference Center, which often allows people to use their giant wooden fun house slide. There's also a bunch of other funhouse stuff there which may or may not be open or might have a special event going on which you can join. When I say "other funhouse stuff" I mean things that are virtually impossible to find anywhere in the world like a human roulette wheel.

 

You might want to schedule around either the Minnesota or Iowa State Fairs. Both have some rides and attractions outside the portable ones that are of interest. Both have permanent Old Mill dark rides that operate only for the fair.

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Yes, I'm sure you'd like to get a Giga Coaster or a B&M Invert or whatever, but be realistic for a moment. You have awesome stuff around you. If you don't like Valleyfair that much and the flyers don't do it for you, you actually have alternatives. Most markets don't! It is OK. Really.

 

"But Mom I want it!"

 

We're the whiny kid in the toy store, just because we have so many options around doesn't mean we don't want more. We want Valleyfair to be awesome, and we want to see them survive.

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Sorry for double post!

We do have some options, yes, but we don't have any options for anything world class, such as B&M or good (Full circuit) intamins within 5 hours of valleyfair. Please don't say anything about 'We have a hyper!' or 'We have an intamin!' unless you compare Wild thing to Diamondback, and Steel venom to Maverick.

 

I feel like cedar fair just steals all of valleyfair's hard earned money, and dumps it at cedar point, or their other beloved parks that they choose because they live closer to them.

 

Another thing that bothers me, why is it that all their good parks are near other good parks? They decide to invest in the parks that have other parks near by, possibly better, sucking some of the customers away. Why be in a battle with the other parks?

The logic that valleyfair has too much competition very unstable because of this. The only competition (besides nick universe) worth worrying about is SFGAM which is 5 hours away! Valleyfair, if they tried, could EASILY beat nick universe!

Simply getting one single flat ride is not going to beat them, and simply getting one new waterslide type is not going to beat waterpark of america.

 

I'm probably wrong about these opinions, so if I need to be corrected, please do, but do so in a kind way. I don't know very much about running theme parks so please have mercy

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Interesting opinion on Waterpark of America. I've been to most of the INDOOR watermarks at Wisconsin Dells, and Waterpark of America is bigger than any single room park in Wisconsin Dells. OK, it's about the same size as Chula Vista. But as for the flyers coming next year in lieu of a coaster, allow me to speak for a family of four that's bought season passes for the last 6 yrs. straight. You know, the "bread & butter" / base market of a theme park. We have been going BECAUSE we have "a hyper coaster, two wood coasters (one of which is a solid GCI), a nice attached water park, a funky/rad Arrow Mine Train style coaster, and an Impulse". And we've rode them each 100 times! For the past 2 seasons we've pretty much just used the watermark and haven't hardly ridden any of the rides at all - WE'RE BORED! The new water slides are just OK, the splash pad is totally stupid (my 8 yr. old used it once), and there's just nothing super exciting to keep us coming back. Major attractions are what other parks add every couple years to keep loyalists, thrill seekers, AND GROWING FAMILIES coming back - and Valleyfair is no different. MOST of Valleyfair's coasters are "walk-on" today. There is never a line at Excalibur, Corkscrew, or High Roller - because other people feel the same as I do - YAWN! That leaves Renegade, Steel Venom (that just goes back & forth, and our flagship coaster (the only full circuit steel coaster we have): Wild Thing which is 20 years old in 2016. Our premier coaster is 20 years old (old news) and nobody even rides the other ones (Renegade being the exception). So some of you can try and put the positive spin on this reality and say that those of us who are mad aren't being fair or have no right to complain. But MY reality is that I've ponied up $1,500 in season passes over 6 years, spent countless amounts of $$ on $10 corn dogs and $15 pops, and are completely bored when we go there. No flat ride is gonna change that, and I don't think it should be unreasonable to expect that Valleyfair is run like other theme parks and has comparable amenities added on a time table consistent with other Cedar Fair parks. We clearly are being overlooked and I cannot make myself or my kids get excited over another ride that spins in a circle. We will be getting season passes to Cascade Bay next summer and making some 3 hr. trips to Adventureland, Arnold's, and the Dells. I'd much rather have had a reason to spend a 7th summer frequenting Valleyfair and still wish there was something exciting and new to look forward to - but Cedar Fair just didn't give it to us

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Sorry for double post!

We do have some options, yes, but we don't have any options for anything world class, such as B&M or good (Full circuit) intamins within 5 hours of valleyfair. Please don't say anything about 'We have a hyper!' or 'We have an intamin!' unless you compare Wild thing to Diamondback, and Steel venom to Maverick.

Yes, most would say that the Diamondback & Maverick would easily beat out any coaster at Valleyfair. However, just because there are better coasters out there DOES NOT mean that the coasters at VF are bad. For everyone within a 2-3 hour drive of the park, Wild Thing is the biggest coaster they'll ever ride, which is roughly 80%+ of VF's customer base.

 

I feel like cedar fair just steals all of valleyfair's hard earned money, and dumps it at cedar point, or their other beloved parks that they choose because they live closer to them.

I doubt the revenue, much less profit, at Valleyfair would generate the needed funds to invest in $20+ million projects nearly every year across the chain. Parks with higher attendance tend to generate more money, so therefore will receive larger investments. Parks will lower attendance tend to generate less money, and therefore will receive smaller investments. Of course everyone would love for their home park to have the latest and greatest rides in the industry, but you need the funds to back it up.

If you want better/more expensive rides, you need to spend more at the park.

 

Another thing that bothers me, why is it that all their good parks are near other good parks? They decide to invest in the parks that have other parks near by, possibly better, sucking some of the customers away. Why be in a battle with the other parks?

The greater LA area has a Six Flags, Knott's, Universal, Disneyland, Pacific Park, and Adventure City, and they all seem to be doing fine. Large population centers are a cash cow for amusement parks. I really don't see an issue with this, at all. Even the twin cities have two amusement parks, Valleyfair and Nick Universe.

 

The logic that valleyfair has too much competition very unstable because of this. The only competition (besides nick universe) worth worrying about is SFGAM which is 5 hours away! Valleyfair, if they tried, could EASILY beat nick universe!

Simply getting one single flat ride is not going to beat them, and simply getting one new waterslide type is not going to beat waterpark of america.

So if Valleyfair doesn't build something better than Nick Universe or Great America their attendance will suffer? Valleyfair offers more family rides, thrill rides, and coasters than NU. VF nearly has 2x the amount of attractions NU has. Plus they have a WATERPARK, that by itself could easily lean someone towards VF. If anything, NU needs to step it up.

 

Also, I don't see how a park 5 hours away would deter the casual park goer (everyone who isn't an enthusiast) to visit a park that offers the same things (rides) they can find within a 45min drive. Most enthusiasts fail to understand this simple concept.

SFGAM has put in multiple B&M's & Intamins, and yet VF still stands. Whoa! Impossible, right?

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simply getting one new waterslide type is not going to beat waterpark of america.

 

The waterpark of america SUCKS, it's small and boring, IMO. The new slide addition makes it ten times better, even though they have a similar slate of attractions.

 

I second this. Also - Our new slide tower is way more fun than the larger, more expensive "snake pit" model that the other parks are getting. The body slides on those run out of speed really fast. Yeah, we're missing the tube slides, but I'm sure that's something that will eventually come to the waterpark, especially if they open up all of that room for expansion.

 

We also have Raging Rapids, which is hard to find anywhere else.

 

 

I'm also cautiously excited about the flyers. The policy on snapping has differed drastically between different parks. I've had them say nothing to me at CGA and CP, but then they're Knottzis out in southern California, who will immediately stop the ride and ask if you are okay. If Valleyfair has a more relaxed policy on it, they could be one of the best flat rides around.

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all im saying is that if we do ever get a invert it seems like the most logical for valleyfair. price wise,popularity, and size would fit in any area of the park. i hope its not like patriot or sliver bullet they are the least popular of inverts they have built .and sorry to say iv'e been on patriot was not pleased one bit.i want something original. packs a punch. force full. but knowing vf they would get something lame,cookie cutter layout.with like 4 inversions bad name and color scheme.

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sorry to say iv'e been on patriot was not pleased one bit.i want something original. packs a punch. force full. but knowing vf they would get something lame,cookie cutter layout.with like 4 inversions bad name and color scheme.

Hmm, sorry about that. I've been on Patriot too, and I had fun, despite that's it's not the biggest, fastest, loopiest, estiest coaster EVAR. Roller coasters are fun. But I guess I'm just weird.

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I feel like cedar fair just steals all of valleyfair's hard earned money, and dumps it at cedar point, or their other beloved parks that they choose because they live closer to them.

I can guarantee that that isn't the reason they invest more heavily in other parks.

 

Another thing that bothers me, why is it that all their good parks are near other good parks?

If they want a park to succeed that is close to another park, they have to remain better than the park that is close, or offer something special to make people want to go there.

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We will be getting season passes to Cascade Bay next summer and making some 3 hr. trips to Adventureland, Arnold's, and the Dells. I'd much rather have had a reason to spend a 7th summer frequenting Valleyfair and still wish there was something exciting and new to look forward to - but Cedar Fair just didn't give it to us

 

Then you're doing the healthy act, which is to stop going somewhere you and your family aren't enjoying. You have alternatives, and it seems you're going to use them. I just think you need to do some personal reassessment here. If the only thing that will make you happy going there is seeing new coasters built with frequency, then maybe you have to accept needing to travel to more parks outside your immediate or even close vicinity to scratch that itch? Adventureland probably isn't going to receive a new coaster for another 10 years. Mount Olympus...it's just gonna fight to stay in business the way things are going. Arnold's hasn't gotten a new-to-them coaster in 17 years, and that was more of a rental/concession situation that lasted one season. You might have those trips next summer, but then what?

 

Alternately, maybe take your kids to the zoo or some museums. Go to Duluth. Take a train trip. But don't get angry at Cedar Fair simply because they don't make your specific park the jewel of the chain.

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We will be getting season passes to Cascade Bay next summer and making some 3 hr. trips to Adventureland, Arnold's, and the Dells. I'd much rather have had a reason to spend a 7th summer frequenting Valleyfair and still wish there was something exciting and new to look forward to - but Cedar Fair just didn't give it to us

 

Then you're doing the healthy act, which is to stop going somewhere you and your family aren't enjoying. You have alternatives, and it seems you're going to use them. I just think you need to do some personal reassessment here. If the only thing that will make you happy going there is seeing new coasters built with frequency, then maybe you have to accept needing to travel to more parks outside your immediate or even close vicinity to scratch that itch? Adventureland probably isn't going to receive a new coaster for another 10 years. Mount Olympus...it's just gonna fight to stay in business the way things are going. Arnold's hasn't gotten a new-to-them coaster in 17 years, and that was more of a rental/concession situation that lasted one season. You might have those trips next summer, but then what?

 

Alternately, maybe take your kids to the zoo or some museums. Go to Duluth. Take a train trip. But don't get angry at Cedar Fair simply because they don't make your specific park the jewel of the chain.

 

OH PLEASE! I'm not asking to have as many big rides as other CF's other parks or requiring "new coasters with frequency"! But there is an All or Nothing problem going on at Cedar Fair. Is there no middle ground here? While other parks get a new steel coaster every couple/few years, We haven't had a full-circuit steel coaster in 20 YEARS AND COUNTING! That's ridiculous. If we go to new parks that we haven't been to hundreds of times and ride rides we're not accustomed to, it'll be a new and different experience that we'll enjoy. The coatses, the flat rides, everything. But At Valleyfair, we've done everything hundreds of times. And VF (like any other park) has to add new, exciting attractions to keep regulars like me enticed - or lose our business.

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We will be getting season passes to Cascade Bay next summer and making some 3 hr. trips to Adventureland, Arnold's, and the Dells. I'd much rather have had a reason to spend a 7th summer frequenting Valleyfair and still wish there was something exciting and new to look forward to - but Cedar Fair just didn't give it to us

 

Then you're doing the healthy act, which is to stop going somewhere you and your family aren't enjoying. You have alternatives, and it seems you're going to use them. I just think you need to do some personal reassessment here. If the only thing that will make you happy going there is seeing new coasters built with frequency, then maybe you have to accept needing to travel to more parks outside your immediate or even close vicinity to scratch that itch? Adventureland probably isn't going to receive a new coaster for another 10 years. Mount Olympus...it's just gonna fight to stay in business the way things are going. Arnold's hasn't gotten a new-to-them coaster in 17 years, and that was more of a rental/concession situation that lasted one season. You might have those trips next summer, but then what?

 

Alternately, maybe take your kids to the zoo or some museums. Go to Duluth. Take a train trip. But don't get angry at Cedar Fair simply because they don't make your specific park the jewel of the chain.

 

OH PLEASE! I'm not asking to have as many big rides as other CF's other parks or requiring "new coasters with frequency"! But there is an All or Nothing problem going on at Cedar Fair. Is there no middle ground here? While other parks get a new steel coaster every couple/few years, We haven't had a full-circuit steel coaster in 20 YEARS AND COUNTING! That's ridiculous. If we go to new parks that we haven't been to hundreds of times and ride rides we're not accustomed to, it'll be a new and different experience that we'll enjoy. The coatses, the flat rides, everything. But At Valleyfair, we've done everything hundreds of times. And VF (like any other park) has to add new, exciting attractions to keep regulars like me enticed - or lose our business.

 

They have added stuff though. You seem to forget that. It may not be your cup of tea, but they have added some large additions. They have added a large slide complex, dinos, a huge camp snoopy expansion and now flyers and a new show.

 

Ill take it u dont have young kids. If you did, you would very much enjoy the new additions over the years

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^Plus reworked the entire wasteland that was the path to Steel Venom. They've dropped a lot of money doing these things. All of the other little improvements like replacing concrete and blacktop with pavers to make things look more appealing. I have no idea, but I think dumping even more money into the waterpark is a better investment for the park than a mediocre B&M invert.

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I'm glad they haven't received a B&M yet. Now when we finally get one in 2021 we can have the new, improved B&M restraints!

 

I too think that a huge water park renovation would be a better investment suited for the park in 2017/2018 than a new coaster. I think prior company management let certain parts (Kidworks/Bear County, Challenge Park, Water Park) of the park get way too outdated and new management views getting those areas updated as a high priority. I love that they are taking this approach as the park is looking great! When we finally do get a coaster, people that may have not visited the park in awhile will see how much more the park has to offer, which in return will hopefully make them revisit the park on a more regular basis.

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Yes, most would say that the Diamondback & Maverick would easily beat out any coaster at Valleyfair. However, just because there are better coasters out there DOES NOT mean that the coasters at VF are bad. For everyone within a 2-3 hour drive of the park, Wild Thing is the biggest coaster they'll ever ride, which is roughly 80%+ of VF's customer base.

 

Just because 80% of VF's customer base is 2-3 hours away and the biggest coaster they may ever ride is at the park DOES NOT mean Wild Thing is a good coaster either. Compared to all of the other Hypers out there Wild Thing is weak. Maybe if VF had a better coaster line up more customers within the 2-3 drive would visit more often causing greater attendance and revenue.

 

If you want better/more expensive rides, you need to spend more at the park.

 

Unfortunately that is not how it works. VF is a business and a business needs to give the customer a reason to spend their money there. Now, VF is doing what they need to do per their business model and investment strategy to be successful and they know much better how to do that than me. But I have been buying $5 Cokes and $6 Corn Dogs (sometimes more) every time I visit (8-12 times a year) for the last 10 years. How much more do I have to spend and how long until I see a return? Just tell me and I'll do it.

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Alternately, maybe take your kids to the zoo or some museums. Go to Duluth. Take a train trip. But don't get angry at Cedar Fair simply because they don't make your specific park the jewel of the chain.

 

I am not angry at CF for not making VF their jewel park of the chain. But is it too much to ask for one new coaster once every 10 years for a park with VF's volume? I don't think so. And we are not talking about a TOP 25 coaster, just a good one to provide some thrills. Just for the record I am not angry at CF. Just a little disappointed but I do understand until the additional parking lot and moving the service road project gets a decision one way or the other the park will not be making any major investments until they know what options lie ahead for them to invest in. In the meantime Flyers are a nice addition to the park and will fit perfectly in Route 76.

 

We want Valleyfair to be awesome, and we want to see them survive.

 

I don't think VF can be awesome but it could be a good park instead of an average one with the right additions.

 

I too think that a huge water park renovation would be a better investment suited for the park in 2017/2018 than a new coaster. ... When we finally do get a coaster, people that may have not visited the park in awhile will see how much more the park has to offer, which in return will hopefully make them revisit the park on a more regular basis.

 

Agreed.

 

I'm glad they haven't received a B&M yet. Now when we finally get one in 2021 we can have the new, improved B&M restraints!

 

If VF is lucky by that time CF may not be as attached to B&M coasters as they have been over the last 5 years and would be willing to add another Intamin or other coaster manufacturer to the park. If it has to be a B&M then I would like it to be an invert. Unless of course they want to replace WT with a B&M Hyper, then I am on board with that too.

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Just because 80% of VF's customer base is 2-3 hours away and the biggest coaster they may ever ride is at the park DOES NOT mean Wild Thing is a good coaster either. Compared to all of the other Hypers out there Wild Thing is weak.

Everyone who isn't an enthusiast (anyone who doesn't post on this forum & 99% of park goers) will find WT a fairly fun ride. Not the BEST, but it is still FUN (which is the purpose people ride these things anyways). The only people who care about driving a 8 hours to ride slightly better rides that will do the same thing (thrill people) as the rides 20 minutes away are people like us. Or people that have already planned an out-of-town trip.

 

Maybe if VF had a better coaster line up more customers within the 2-3 drive would visit more often causing greater attendance and revenue.

You conveniently forgot the last 5+ years worth of additions. Valleyfair isn't a coaster-mecha in any sense of the word. So why people believe that the park "needs" world class coasters to stay afloat is beyond me.

 

Valleyfair as always focused on a mix of mostly flats, family rides, water additions. And the occasional thrill ride. 96-07 has been the only time period this park has ever tried to push thrill rides with such consistency and scale. And it seems they've reconsidered, and are going for the tried-and-true approach that has made the park into what it is today.

Unfortunately that is not how it works. VF is a business and a business needs to give the customer a reason to spend their money there. Now, VF is doing what they need to do per their business model and investment strategy to be successful and they know much better how to do that than me. But I have been buying $5 Cokes and $6 Corn Dogs (sometimes more) every time I visit (8-12 times a year) for the last 10 years. How much more do I have to spend and how long until I see a return? Just tell me and I'll do it.

 

You're reading too far into it. If you want that $25 million dollar inverted-giga-rmc, you're going to need to spend $25 million more dollars.

Edited by JonnyRCT3
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