Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

[yogibrain]

A couple things I found out today:

*Excalibur has no second train due to operating system issues dating back to last season. The second train is in storage.

*There are no plans to renew the Dinos Alive contract.

 

Does anybody remember how lame Kidworks and Berenstain Bear Country was?

 

DON'T YOU DARE CALL BERENSTEIN BEAR COUNTRY LAME! KidWorks, fine--but leave BBC alone! Do you remember how creepy that Spooky Old Tree slide was?! That thing could have easily been in Haunt and I loved it and was pissed when I outgrew it.

No plans to renew Dinos Alive?

Who is your source on this?

If it's true when would they be removing it?

[thecoasterlead]

Dino's Lease ends in 2019! Will tomorrow be busy at the park? Thanks

[jmillzy]

Friday's in July from 11:45-5:45 are as bad as Saturday's but after and before that you should get automatic rides.

[ACES]

One spot for the first new inverted coaster should be in the back of the park with the removal of Excalibur and the new soak city parking lot second spot for a coaster put one in the old pinic cove maybe a Rocky Mountain coaster could fit in there there's nothing but storage there third spot were the dinasours alive sits maybe a gate keeper one more area use the open land by the wave and relocate the Ferris wheel and have a coaster rap around Corkscrew and go over the Power Tower que line there are four areas of the park to build room for expansion and you could build s coaster right on the dike by High Roller.

 

My thought I think it will be emberassing if Valleyfair doesn't add a new thrill ride and a roller coaster by 2018. My hunch Six Flags Great America will get another new coaster in two years and I have a feeling Mt Olympus might get a B&M what if they get a new B&M before Valleyfair gets one? Dollywood is getting a Rocky Mountain launch in 2016 there rumored also to get a hyper steel coaster to I'm saying Valleyfair needs to start waking up here.

 

What's getting some people upset I think that Adventureland is getting a new steel coaster with five inversions before Valleyfair got one.

Edited July 10, 2015 by ACES

[PhantomPoster32]

Did I miss where Cedar Fair said that Valleyfair was going to get a coaster in the near future? The only thing I've seen is an expanding of the borders and a parking lot. I guess one could say that the park will eventually get a dark ride (as Ouimet said that he wanted to expand them to all of the parks in the chain) but I have yet to see anything that would make me think a coaster is coming any time soon - let alone a B&M.

 

So, is this just wishful thinking or is there a legitimate reason why we are foaming over where an inverted should go?

[Mossed]

Valleyfair has been targeted as a growth park. B&M and Cedar Fair have worked together extensively over the last few years.

 

Nothing has been said specifically, but it's safe to say that Valleyfair will see a pretty large investment, and that usually comes in the form of a roller coaster.

[GCI Wooden]

Have any of you guys noticed how popular this thread is? We are in the 500 of pages, while other parks like WoF that are considered "larger" parks only have around 150 pages.

Well the park has been making lots of good improvements, the amount of pages in a discussion thread does not reflect the quality of the park. I mean, Six Flags Magic Mountain has the biggest thread on this site.

[PhantomPoster32]

Valleyfair has been targeted as a growth park. B&M and Cedar Fair have worked together extensively over the last few years.

 

Nothing has been said specifically, but it's safe to say that Valleyfair will see a pretty large investment, and that usually comes in the form of a roller coaster.

 

So in other words we have posters putting the cart before the horse and working themselves up into a frantic over something that may not come in the first place. Got it.

 

You know they said "growth park" but failed to say how much growth. For all we know you guys already had it this year with the waterpark addition. They never guaranteed a Carowinds sized growth.

[madsencarson]

^ No, they didn't guarantee anything. But they still granted Valleyfair as a growth park, which gives us the right to believe something is coming in the near future. There is no need for you to be a debby downer here. No, nothing is set in stone. But we have the right to think we are getting a coaster soon, and a B&M is most likely.

[ACES]

KINGS DOMINION

They are removing The Shockwave stand up Togo coaster last rides in August.

 

Valleyfair

Are we going to see any type of annoucement for the removal of Excalibur or just a rumor?

 

Cedar Fair

Is this the year for ride removals?

Thunder Road at Carowinds in July.

Shockwave at Kings Dominion Farewell.

Excalibur at Valleyfair August? For soak city?

Dive machine annoucement Cedar Point in August?

[C.P.A.Guy]

^ No, they didn't guarantee anything. But they still granted Valleyfair as a growth park, which gives us the right to believe something is coming in the near future. There is no need for you to be a debby downer here. No, nothing is set in stone. But we have the right to think we are getting a coaster soon, and a B&M is most likely.

 

I don't think Phantom is being a debby downer. I think Phantom is just being realistic and this thread needs more of that. Reading some of these posts you would swear that B&M track is on its way to the park and footers are poured already. People probably think all Minnesotans are nut jobs looking at our home park's thread. There are no signs of any addition yet for next year and if you don't see some sort of markings by the end of the month into early August, then don't plan on a large scale coaster coming next year.

 

I think we are overdue for a coaster as well, but if management has identified the water park as the number one priority in the future I would bet that that is where the major investment dollars will go and not towards a new coaster. If that realistic point of view is being a debby downer, then so be it.

 

All our coaster additions in the past have been mid-level investments in the $7-9 million dollar range (Steel Venom and Renegade). If a new water park would push our revenue high enough to get Cedar Fair to invest in a $12-15 million dollar coaster like a B&M, wouldn't you want the water park to get the attention first for a few years? Or would you want to keep settling for above average coasters instead of possibly getting a great one? I think that is exactly what a water park would do as I know everyone in my family, except me, prefers to go to water parks versus amusement parks.

[Mdcastle]

Did I miss where Cedar Fair said that Valleyfair was going to get a coaster in the near future? The only thing I've seen is an expanding of the borders and a parking lot. I guess one could say that the park will eventually get a dark ride (as Ouimet said that he wanted to expand them to all of the parks in the chain) but I have yet to see anything that would make me think a coaster is coming any time soon - let alone a B&M.

 

So, is this just wishful thinking or is there a legitimate reason why we are foaming over where an inverted should go?

 

They've said nothing. Cedar Fair stating Valleyfair is a "Growth Park" + Years since last coaster + Wishfull thinking is leading to people already picking out potential locations. The scope of the parking lot is not going to be cheap. It cost over $100,000 just for my church to have some dirt moved for 30 parking spaces and used to flatten out a field in back. Just the wetland credits Valleyfair has to buy could equal this.

 

I'd also say there's probably a 100% chance when we get one that it's going to either be out front or in the new space in back. There's no reason for them to spend money to move the Ferris Wheel or anything else around when there's going to be space once the dino's leave and the new parking lot is built.

[C.P.A.Guy]

They've said nothing. Cedar Fair stating Valleyfair is a "Growth Park" + Years since last coaster + Wishfull thinking is leading to people already picking out potential locations. The scope of the parking lot is not going to be cheap. It cost over $100,000 just for my church to have some dirt moved for 30 parking spaces and used to flatten out a field in back. Just the wetland credits Valleyfair has to buy could equal this.

 

Is there any proof of anybody at Cedar Fair actually stating this or is it just a myth? I agree, the new access road and parking lot could get very expensive and take up a few years of investment dollars alone. Makes a guy wonder if that is why Valleyfair has more "off" years and mid-level investments than a normal Cedar Fair park knowing that one day in the future this would need to be done in order to keep growing.

[RCjunkie]

That's exactly what is was...a made up number. The point was I'd bet they pull in a hell of a lot more income than Valleyfair just based on the traffic that gets pumped through that place. Yeah, it probably was high I'll admit it, but out of all the ridiculous things people have posted lately in this thread I find it odd this is what you decided to jump on. Would 10x be a better estimate for you? I won't go below 5x.. .

 

Valleyfair had 1,250,000 and some change for visitors in 2006 (that was the last time I saw CF publish attendance in their year end report. Now they just use pie chart graphs but they do group the park in the 1 to 1.5 million yearly attendance category still for 2014). So let's just use the average of that range at 1.25 million visitors (not unrealistic since they park hit 1 million in attendance after Wild Thing in 1996).

 

Then you have Nickelodeon Universe which has a lower daily admission fee than VF, the option to just choose to ride 1 ride at a time at even a lower cost if you only want one or two rides, no unsupervised teenagers are allowed in the park after 6:00 pm plus all the food sales competition from the 4th floor at MOA which VF does not have and you 'estimate' they have 5x profit as VF?

 

That means they would need at LEAST 5 times the people to get to your 5x profit margin estimate and that would be 6 million visitors. (So 5 x 1.25 million = 6 million). That would put the park ahead of Sea World Orlando (5,090,000 attendance in 2014) and make it the 10th largest park in the U.S.. The 20th biggest park in the U.S. for attendance in 2014 is Busch Gardens Virginia at 2.726 million. Funny, I don't see NU in any attendance listing anywhere even being in the top 50 parks in the U.S. for attendance.

 

So at a 5x profit margin your still way over inflated on your estimate and you even admit to making that number up. Trying to prove points with made up numbers invalidate your point. And your the one calling for people on this thread to be 'more realistic'?

 

http://www.mynews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2015/6/Theme%20Index_2014_v1_1a.PDF

[Fingers]

 

Valleyfair had 1,250,000 and some change for visitors in 2006 (that was the last time I saw CF publish attendance in their year end report. Now they just use pie chart graphs but they do group the park in the 1 to 1.5 million yearly attendance category still for 2014). So let's just use the average of that range at 1.25 million visitors (not unrealistic since they park hit 1 million in attendance after Wild Thing in 1996).

 

Then you have Nickelodeon Universe which has a lower daily admission fee than VF, the option to just choose to ride 1 ride at a time at even a lower cost if you only want one or two rides, no unsupervised teenagers are allowed in the park after 6:00 pm plus all the food sales competition from the 4th floor at MOA which VF does not have and you 'estimate' they have 5x profit as VF?

 

That means they would need at LEAST 5 times the people to get to your 5x profit margin estimate and that would be 6 million visitors. (So 5 x 1.25 million = 6 million). That would put the park ahead of Sea World Orlando (5,090,000 attendance in 2014) and make it the 10th largest park in the U.S.. The 20th biggest park in the U.S. for attendance in 2014 is Busch Gardens Virginia at 2.726 million. Funny, I don't see NU in any attendance listing anywhere even being in the top 50 parks in the U.S. for attendance.

 

So at a 5x profit margin your still way over inflated on your estimate and you even admit to making that number up. Trying to prove points with made up numbers invalidate your point. And your the one calling for people on this thread to be 'more realistic'?

 

http://www.mynews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2015/6/Theme%20Index_2014_v1_1a.PDF

How would you track attendance at NU? Do you only count attendance based on number of wrist band sales? Amount of tickets sold? Number of Transactions? That right there is why you don't see attendance figures for NU because they are nearly impossible to measure.

These two places are extremely different and there is almost no way to compare them. NU is open year round and isn't going to see an attendance drop because of a rainy day. NU has less staff than valleyfair, their rides should hold up better being in a climate controlled area, they are getting money from people who wouldn't normally plan a day around an amusement park or drop $40-$50 to go to one, and most importantly they are located in a national shopping destination which sees 40+ million people a year. Also don't forget all of the general upkeep that Valleyfair has had to do the last few years to get the place looking nice. So considering all of that information it is no mystery as to why NU would be putting in more thrilling attractions than Valleyfair. One last thing, where NU is located they need to have attention grabbing rides to pull in the tourists that are at the mall. In summary these parks have a very different mark and that is no reason to compare them

[C.P.A.Guy]

That's exactly what is was...a made up number. The point was I'd bet they pull in a hell of a lot more income than Valleyfair just based on the traffic that gets pumped through that place. Yeah, it probably was high I'll admit it, but out of all the ridiculous things people have posted lately in this thread I find it odd this is what you decided to jump on. Would 10x be a better estimate for you? I won't go below 5x.. .

 

Valleyfair had 1,250,000 and some change for visitors in 2006 (that was the last time I saw CF publish attendance in their year end report. Now they just use pie chart graphs but they do group the park in the 1 to 1.5 million yearly attendance category still for 2014). So let's just use the average of that range at 1.25 million visitors (not unrealistic since they park hit 1 million in attendance after Wild Thing in 1996).

 

Then you have Nickelodeon Universe which has a lower daily admission fee than VF, the option to just choose to ride 1 ride at a time at even a lower cost if you only want one or two rides, no unsupervised teenagers are allowed in the park after 6:00 pm plus all the food sales competition from the 4th floor at MOA which VF does not have and you 'estimate' they have 5x profit as VF?

 

That means they would need at LEAST 5 times the people to get to your 5x profit margin estimate and that would be 6 million visitors. (So 5 x 1.25 million = 6 million). That would put the park ahead of Sea World Orlando (5,090,000 attendance in 2014) and make it the 10th largest park in the U.S.. The 20th biggest park in the U.S. for attendance in 2014 is Busch Gardens Virginia at 2.726 million. Funny, I don't see NU in any attendance listing anywhere even being in the top 50 parks in the U.S. for attendance.

 

So at a 5x profit margin your still way over inflated on your estimate and you even admit to making that number up. Trying to prove points with made up numbers invalidate your point. And your the one calling for people on this thread to be 'more realistic'?

 

http://www.mynews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2015/6/Theme%20Index_2014_v1_1a.PDF

 

Jesus H.. There are way too many factors such as season pass repeat visitors, the one time ride tickets like you stated, and countless others to even debate this. I wouldn't say attendance can be a direct correlation to profit when you simply take season passes into account. I'll type a pointless scenario too in order to prove this for you. Two parks each get 1 million visitors. One is more of a destination park and one is more of a local park. Each park charges $80 bucks for a season pass and $40 for a one-day admission ticket. Park 1, the destination park, has 100,000 season pass holders who visit twice each year and 800,000 one-day visitors. Park 2, the local park, also has 100,000 season pass holders who visit the park six times each year and 400,000 one-day visitors.

 

Income:

Park 1 (destination): (100,000x$80)+(800,000x$40)=$40,000,000

Park 2 (local): (100,000x$80)+(400,000x$40)=$24,000,000

 

So I guess I should of said: I am willing to bet that Nick Universe brings in more profit than Valleyfair each year. There, I retract my old statement and remove the estimate, and replace it with this general phrase so RCJunkie can chill.

 

My God, don't attack the guy that thinks he heard a rumor about moving Excalibur to Michigan's Adventure and converting it into a stand-up..let's attack the guy who keeps down to earth, REALISTIC expectations for his home park that doesn't have a track record of huge, major investments..*breath*..who made one over estimate on a subject we have no accurate way of proving..

[ariznglori]

I wonder if rent for that mall space and the power/AC bill eat up a lot of that potential profit. What is the relationship between Nick Universe and the Mall of America? Anybody know? I'm intrigued.

[PhantomPoster32]

^ No, they didn't guarantee anything. But they still granted Valleyfair as a growth park, which gives us the right to believe something is coming in the near future. There is no need for you to be a debby downer here. No, nothing is set in stone. But we have the right to think we are getting a coaster soon, and a B&M is most likely.

 

I don't think Phantom is being a debby downer. I think Phantom is just being realistic and this thread needs more of that. Reading some of these posts you would swear that B&M track is on its way to the park and footers are poured already. People probably think all Minnesotans are nut jobs looking at our home park's thread. There are no signs of any addition yet for next year and if you don't see some sort of markings by the end of the month into early August, then don't plan on a large scale coaster coming next year.

 

I think we are overdue for a coaster as well, but if management has identified the water park as the number one priority in the future I would bet that that is where the major investment dollars will go and not towards a new coaster. If that realistic point of view is being a debby downer, then so be it.

 

All our coaster additions in the past have been mid-level investments in the $7-9 million dollar range (Steel Venom and Renegade). If a new water park would push our revenue high enough to get Cedar Fair to invest in a $12-15 million dollar coaster like a B&M, wouldn't you want the water park to get the attention first for a few years? Or would you want to keep settling for above average coasters instead of possibly getting a great one? I think that is exactly what a water park would do as I know everyone in my family, except me, prefers to go to water parks versus amusement parks.

 

Exactly. I'm just being realistic. Like you stated moving the road and all that will not be cheap. I still stand by not getting worked up about a potential coaster until one is mentioned by the park.

[RCjunkie]

So I guess I should of said: I am willing to bet that Nick Universe brings in more profit than Valleyfair each year. There, I retract my old statement and remove the estimate, and replace it with this general phrase so RCJunkie can chill.

 

My God, don't attack the guy that thinks he heard a rumor about moving Excalibur to Michigan's Adventure and converting it into a stand-up..let's attack the guy who keeps down to earth, REALISTIC expectations for his home park that doesn't have a track record of huge, major investments..*breath*..who made one over estimate on a subject we have no accurate way of proving..

 

About the rumor that Excalibur was being moved to MiA was the dumbest thing I have ever read in this thread (followed by the suggestion to RMC Excalibur. ) but since others had already commented on it and felt the same way there was no reason for me to repeat it and just pile on like you are suggesting.

 

I never attacked you, I just pointed out that you made up number that even you admitted too. I never disagreed that NU made more profit than VF due to their environment and location, I just pointed out your 25 times or even 5 times more estimate is way too high. 2 times, maybe 3 times at best. If you think that is an attack instead of a disagreement you have way too thin of skin to be posting on the internet.

 

Sorry that I disagreed with your made up estimates. Next time I disagree with you about one of your posts I won't respond so you don't feel 'attacked'. And anyone who uses 'My God' or 'Jesus H.' on a message board about theme parks might be the one who needs to chill.

[ACES]

Whats getting people upset here is that Adventureland is getting a new steel coaster with five inversions and they beet us before we got our new inverted coaster which everyone wants and the parks last coaster there was in 1993 believe long time for a new one and now this annoucement from Kings Dominion with the farewell of Shock wave leaving in August last rides and the expected annoucement from Cedar Point for the new dive machine plus the last ride on Thunder Road at Carowinds leaving in July and Sky Rider at Canada's Wonderland leaving to so is this the year for ride removals at Cedar Fair? Where does this leave Valleyfair I sometimes think left out to dry but who knows and it's our 40th anniversary next year so we have hope at least getting something and is this corporates falt not putting more money into Valleyfair or Valleyfair not adding a new attraction every couple of years along with a coaster?

 

I think people are just upset with Adventureland getting a new steel coaster and now Shock wave leaving Kings Dominion where does this leave Valleyfair?

[ariznglori]

There's no reason to be upset that Adventureland is getting a new coaster...we've gotten how many in the time they've gotten nothing? Wild Thing, Steel Venom, and Renegade at least? We're leagues beyond them right now, and we are guaranteed a dark ride at this point, sometime in the next several years.

 

I think that we will wait until Dinos is out for a new invert at the front of the park. In Dinos' last season, we may see the beginnings of footers being poured if they can squeeze them in, but probably not.

 

I think that the amphitheater will go soon, and we will see either the dark ride there or another family-sized coaster. We have plenty of open spots around the park for cool flats in the meantime.

 

No worries about the future here.

[Fingers]

Whats getting people upset here is that Adventureland is getting a new steel coaster with five inversions and they beet us before we got our new inverted coaster which everyone wants and the parks last coaster there was in 1993 believe long time for a new one and now this annoucement from Kings Dominion with the farewell of Shock wave leaving in August last rides and the expected annoucement from Cedar Point for the new dive machine plus the last ride on Thunder Road at Carowinds leaving in July and Sky Rider at Canada's Wonderland leaving to so is this the year for ride removals at Cedar Fair? Where does this leave Valleyfair I sometimes think left out to dry but who knows and it's our 40th anniversary next year so we have hope at least getting something and is this corporates falt not putting more money into Valleyfair or Valleyfair not adding a new attraction every couple of years along with a coaster?

 

I think people are just upset with Adventureland getting a new steel coaster and now Shock wave leaving Kings Dominion where does this leave Valleyfair?

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but those are some really dumb reasons to get upset. A park gets a coaster for the first time in 20+ years and 3 other parks are having a coaster removed. So a small park in Iowa can't get a coaster without Valleyfair fans getting upset instead of being happy for the small park? Also you guys would rather lose a coaster and get nothing than get nothing at all, because that is what you are saying. Just because a coaster is getting removed doesn't mean you will get one in return.

[ACES]

I can say this I live really close by I have a season pass I work nights getting off work I really enjoy coming to the park for a few hours each day till one most of my time is being on Renegade for two hours in the morning till noon and riding with Mike a lot on weekends is fun to lots of re rides early in the morning. I also like the Renegade crew! And I right now I like the early rides on Extreme Swing I was there this morning rode the Extreme Swing 15 times and thanks for the ride operators you can do re rides I stayed on three times. I just want Valleyfair to start adding something new fresh every couple of years let me ask this what if Valleyfair announces a new B&M inverted for next season maybe they will surprise us will that make everyone happy? I'm going to be at soak city Sunday hot humid 92.

[VF15]

^

I just don't think next year is VF's year for a coaster because the proposed plan to remove Excalibur and build the new parking lot is going to cost quite a bit of money. Like some others have said, I would rather wait 2-3 more years and get an awesome new coaster than get a coaster next year that's just average or slightly above average.

[Mdcastle]

Really, Valleyfair is in business to make money. Sometimes that doesn't involve building a new coaster. I'm sure they have a better idea what makes business sense for them than a bunch of random people on the internet. It seems some posters are implying that they don't know what they're doing when they build a parking lot instead of a coaster, or a waterslide instead of a coaster, or even "infrastructure improvements" instead of a coaster.