Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

[budtbum]

They wouldn't want to reuse Excalibur wood substructure for a RMC- or anything really. There are two reasons for it- first it isn't much of a structure- compare it to Renegade. Excalibur has very little to it.

The second reason is far more substantial- there is a design flaw on the footings. Valleyfair is on a floodplain and they used small footings.... I'm not design engineer, and I don't do roller coaster maintenance....but I seriously suspect those small footings has a lot to do with the roughness of the ride. If they sink or shift at different rates, they would have to re-trim. Excalibur can be smooth or rough depending on when you're at the park. Is that because the ground dried up or because they re-trimmed it?

Renegade on the other hand got a great cement pad put in place below it. So all of it's substructure stays nice and straight.

[RollerColester]

I know it will never happen. Just saying the hypothetical layout would be pretty insane.

[RCjunkie]

An RMC Excalibur would be incredible.

 

RMC does not give that treatment to steel coasters, only wooden ones.

 

Guess there would be a first time for everything me boy! Structure is wood

 

It is a wood support for a steel coaster. It is not a wooden coaster. How would they 'RMC' steel track? Please explain.

[RollerColester]

It is a wood support for a steel coaster. It is not a wooden coaster. How would they 'RMC' steel track? Please explain.

 

You would loosen ALL of the bolts that connect the dated Arrow track to the wood supports. Which would all allow you to then remove the steel track all together, leaving just the wood structure to work with. Therefore, taking the steel track out of play all together. The same type of process that RMC would use when renovating 100% wooden coasters. They remove all the wooden track and work with an existing structure to install their track. They install new steel beams for the new RMC track to rest on.

 

Lets just move on if it's that hard to imagine... It will never happen anyway. Again, I was just saying you could create a wicked layout based off of the current layout.

 

So, Grand Carnival. What a nice looking event, huh?!?!?

[garyman6]

I did hear yesterday from a former GM that, as far as he knows, Valleyfair has not gotten funding approval for the new berm work yet! But, as stated, they can extend the permit date. I have not yet been able to find an expiration date to the MWCA permit yet. I'll continue to work on that!

 

I just received my answer to the above question;

 

Hi Gary,

 

There has been revisions to the NOD, the latest dated 3-22-18. I have attached the most recent revised NOD. The NOD is valid for 5 years, so this would expire 3-22-2023.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

Thanks.

 

Kirby Templin, PE

Water Resource – Environmental Engineer, City of Shakopee

485 Gorman St., Shakopee MN 55379

 

As you can see, there has been revisions on dating back to 3-22-18 and this permit is good until 3-22-2023. This is still an active, ongoing pursuit for Valleyfair! We all thought it was dead but it is not dead. Plus we know that this work won't start until funding approval is given for the waterpark/parking lot project. So, Cedar Fair has some real deadlines to work within unless they want to get an extension. I'm just going out on a limb here and I'm going to predict that Cedar Fair will act on these permits and work within the deadlines. They may need an extension for the AC of E permit due to its expiration at the end of 2020. But that work can be completed before that date. So, look for work to begin in the spring as soon as they can get out there!

[garyman6]

1811-660 - NOD - Valleyfair Expansion_rev032218.pdf

Here is the Notice of Decision

[ytterbiumanalyst]

Thanks for all your work on this (and yay for government transparency too!). I'm excited to see what Valleyfair has in mind, whenever it happens.

[Mdcastle]

Went to the haunt last night. Worst year ever. Instead of fog machines and decorations they have portable floodlights everywhere outside the scare zones completely ruining the atmosphere. Blood on the Boundary Waters was fun, but Darkness Awaits seemed to be just a couple of random scareactors in an undecorated area that was pretty well lit from the waterpark lights that were also turned on. I asume this is a reaction to the knife fight last year, but this is why we can't have nice things (and couldn't they just get a few IR cameras?)

[Donomike05]

Went to the haunt last night. Worst year ever. Instead of fog machines and decorations they have portable floodlights everywhere outside the scare zones completely ruining the atmosphere. Blood on the Boundary Waters was fun, but Darkness Awaits seemed to be just a couple of random scareactors in an undecorated area that was pretty well lit from the waterpark lights that were also turned on. I asume this is a reaction to the knife fight last year, but this is why we can't have nice things (and couldn't they just get a few IR cameras?)

No fog this year? If highway 101 isn’t cover with fog by the end of the night than Valleyscare has failed.

[sandiego28]

Went to the haunt last night. Worst year ever. Instead of fog machines and decorations they have portable floodlights everywhere outside the scare zones completely ruining the atmosphere. Blood on the Boundary Waters was fun, but Darkness Awaits seemed to be just a couple of random scareactors in an undecorated area that was pretty well lit from the waterpark lights that were also turned on. I asume this is a reaction to the knife fight last year, but this is why we can't have nice things (and couldn't they just get a few IR cameras?)

 

I second this, Valley Scare was terrible. I don't remember any fog or nearly the amount of monsters on the trails. Zombie High and Berseekers had very long lines; they were only letting in one group per 2 minutes. I believe that Carnevil managed to frighten a 5 year old.

 

They had EXTREMELY BRIGHT lights lighting up portions of the park. Made riding Wild Thing suck as, on top of there being no fog, it was all lit up.

 

They also had closed down the majority of the restaurants to get people to go to the $30 buffet.

 

Does anyone know why they closed off portion of the walkways with orange fencing? Is it to slow people down? I was so confused by that.

[garyman6]

Most of what ValleyScare is doing with lights and the fencing is in reaction to last season's opening night, so yes, you can blame a group of bumbling idiots. There was also a large police contingency present. I can assure you that the Scare-actors, of which i am one, are doing their best! The enthusiasm is there! Valleyfair has to be on top of things to prevent such an event from happening again so be patient but come and have a good time! And come on down to the "swamp" if you don't want much lighting. Berserkers, Dark Harvest and Undertakers are all in the "swamp"!

[RollerColester]

Pretty bummed to hear all the negative comments about opening weekend. I think my wife and I are planning on checking it out Saturday night for a few hours. Hope the experience is better than described!

[garyman6]

Pretty bummed to hear all the negative comments about opening weekend. I think my wife and I are planning on checking it out Saturday night for a few hours. Hope the experience is better than described!

 

Don't get too worked up about previous comments. I believe they are overstated. Part of the fog issue last Saturday was that there was a pretty good breeze that blew the fog away quickly. Just come with a fun attitude and you'll have a blast!

[Coaster Bro]

After what has happened at KD (Volcano) and KI (Vortex and Firehawk) where Cedar Fair has been just deleting the higher maintenance coasters that are ~30 years old, what the future of Corkscrew and especially Excalibur will be as they both fit into that category as Corkscrew is 39 and Excalibur is now 30. What I think is that Corkscrew is likely safe for now as its footprint is very small and not much would fit there, but I feel even though it has been wrongfully predicted for many years, that the next couple years will be Excalibur's last due to age and low popularity (I hope not though).

[RollerColester]

I don't see the smaller Arrow loopers going anywhere (Corkscrew @ VF, MIA, CP). Small footprints like you said and I have to believe there is less wear and tear than on those giant Arrow loopers.

 

Excalibur is on borrowed time. It does seem to survive year after year, so who knows exactly when! The fact that they got rid of a second train all together, it opens late and closes early, and there is known future plans for its location. All signs point to its imminent ending.

Edited October 2, 2019 by RollerColester

[budtbum]

I agree with RollerColester.

 

Though I would miss Excalibur. It's a small roller coaster but it is unique and fun in it's own right. One thing that Valleyfair has by it's lack of being cutting edge, is what it does get tends to be unique or improved versions of the rides.

By that I mean if you ride Corkscrew at Ceder Point, and than at Valleyfair- it's clear that the later version of the ride at Valleyfair has been improved and is better in smoothness etc. That might give it some extra lifespan too.

 

Excalibur does shows what happens with a lack of cohesive management plan though. Back in the 80's they probably had plans to build more in the back area of the park but Thunder Canyon and Excalibur is all that was ever done. Now they are left too far out of the way to draw bigger crowds. You almost have to know they are there to wander down the long path to get to them.

 

Which does leave an interesting question- even if they build the expanded water park or not. If they decide to add a major ride be it a roller coaster or Thunder Canyon size ride- does it make more sense to keep it near the front to replace the dinos, or the back of the park, or revive the games area for larger crowds there?

[valleyfairfanatic]

Very interesting article...

 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2019/10/02/report-valleyfairs-parent-company-might-merge-with.html

[VF15]

^

The offer was turned down.

 

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3504029-cedar-fair-turns-away-six-flags?fbclid=IwAR08m-xqO-UjFKNszfT5goAOJ-wFoVFIAjorZxgE7LUlzgpkMxbMuaXH3Iw

[budtbum]

After the previous posts about Valleyscare being too bright etc. I wasn't sure what to expect when I went last night. But happily it was all good!

 

They made a concerted effort to keep the peace- including no profanity. That can actually help a lot on picking out the "problem" groups long before things escalate and get worse...

I saw no roaming groups that were a concern.

 

There were two areas lit up brightly, but they were near the food areas and didn't really affect the scare zones.

Fog everywhere help create a great atmosphere.

Down by the the Undertakers/Dark Harvest area in particular that had a very well done "spooky" atmosphere.

We went through the mazes. On one, I let a couple of women go first (that the greeter chastised me for - ha ha) but honestly letting a couple scaredy cats jump in front of us in line was well worth the extra entertainment value!

The shows were good too. There's great for breaking up the time, and entertaining. Masque was good. Sinister Circus if anything has only gotten better. That show in particular is definitely worth checking out, especially if you have never seen it! If you like live shows, those two guys are good...

Uncle Muskrat provided great atmosphere music for Blood on the Boundary waters. They had the light, fog, and sound perfect. In fact they sounded good enough that is my only complaint- I could easily listen to them much longer if they were near food area or some other area that you could hang out more in. They provided great atmosphere and it felt like a waste to just walk by. I guess that is the trade off- atmosphere for a scare zone or more of a show.

Being a Friday night in early October the crowds weren't bad and so the lines weren't too long.

I don't know what it was like last weekend, but I'm happy to report this one is fine.

Like Garyman6 said- just come with a fun attitude and a friend or two and you'll have a blast!

[Coaster Bro]

I definitely agree that the complaints are not much and they don't ruin the experience. The way I see it is that it is better this year safety wise because even though there are more lights there is less of a chance of another large fight, closing the whole park. The only downside I see this year is the new scare zone "Into the Darkness" feels very disappointing because while the scare actors are good, there is nothing else that goes with the area such as theming. Other than that the shows are pretty good, especially if you get a friend to get hypnotized at the hypnosis show (or you be part of the show!). One other thing that I like that they are doing this year is that they are letting fewer people into the mazes at a time (more scares!) such as about four people at a time instead of about 15 people at a time like last year.

[DorneyKid14]

Valleyfair closing because of snow.

[Coaster Bro]

Valleyfair closing because of snow.

 

I was at the park on Saturday and I was very surprised that this did not happen that day. On Saturday about four of the larger rides were open (Renegade, Wild Thing, Delirious, and Looping Starship) other than that all of the other thrill rides were closed. Also for most of the day, there were likely no more than 200 cars in the parking lot at one time. I am also surprised as the weather today was more or less better than yesterday except for a few moments. One more thing that I noticed and made me think they should have had at least Wild Thing and maybe Renegade closed was that they were running extremely slow. On WIld thing on the trip back after the midcourse, I got little to no airtime on the hills (felt like we likely would not make it) and every time I rode Renegade on the hill after going under the lift hill, it felt like the train would barely crest over the hill, even Looping Starship was running fairly slow (in its own way), as it took longer to get up to speed, and would then do only two complete loops while it usually does three, sometimes four.

 

Other than that if I did not have a season pass, yesterday would be disappointing to me, as they did not tell you anything at all until you by your ticket about all of the closures and other things(Rides, Food, Dark Harvest, and all the Scare Zones were closed). At least the sliders were still out and they did not have all of the obnoxiously bright floodlights on.

[Donomike05]

Well waterpark expansion it is

[garyman6]

Well waterpark expansion it is

 

Well, this may be the start of something big. Remember, they didn't announce anything for next year except for Grand Carnivale. They could decide to add something new after all but I really don't think so. Who knows!

[RollerColester]

^I think that only adds fuel to the fire for 2021 being the long rumored water park expansion/new entrance.

 

Makes sense as Cedar Fair has been removing older rides that maintenance costs get high on. Delirious is pretty much the same ride as well, so you can still get the same type of thrill on that.

 

Figured it might be coming, but thought it'd survive another year.