Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

[PKIDelirium]

They probably know exactly what happened and deemed the other rides safe, probably afer a heavy inspection of the other CF Morgans.

[Rastuso]

How can you jump to that conclusion? Why do you automatically believe they have everything figured out when they haven't even touched the coaster?

 

Rastus O'Ginga

[PKIDelirium]

It was probably a known flaw.

[rollermonkey]

OK, I wasn't going to jump in before, but, huh?

 

There was a known flaw, and they allowed it to cause this accident, which could have resulted in serious injury to park guests?

 

Are you insane?

 

Explain yourself, please!

[Thrillrider15]

I have another friend I talked to about this, he said he was there too (I'm left out ). Anyways, he says he knows what went wrong. I'm not sure if I can believe him or not, but he says he talked to some people working in high places at Valleyfair!, and told him. So he doesn't want to tell anybody else because he doesn't want to risk those people losing their jobs.

 

And also, I did see the paper today, exactly what tsmcdon said.

[steel]

High places like the manager of Morgan or high places like the guy who fixed the light at the top of the Lemon Chill stand?

[Carnage]

It was probably a known flaw.

 

A ride would not run with a konwn flaw that would cause a catastrophic failure.

 

That's just stupid.

 

Parks are not going to run a ride that they know is at risk of derailing at any time.

[Thrillrider15]

High places like the manager of Morgan or high places like the guy who fixed the light at the top of the Lemon Chill stand?

 

The second one you said. And might I add if I didn't before, that he will not reveal the story on what happened, until Valleyfair! announces it.

[Warlord694]

Kumba9

 

Here is a shot of Mamba from Saturday.

You can see undercarriage pretty good.

[Jon Sabo]

Thanks to both peeps that posted those recent photos!!!!!

(TDMAMBA & Warlord 694)

I can see two issues that can acutally be a (potential) cause.

 

Look at the previous photo from TDMAMBA (train departing from the station). Notice the guide wheel assembly and the guide pin/spindle that supports it. If you look just above that to where the track rail is, you notice a small "bar" protruding out of the axle (protruding to the left of the pic). You can see that similar "bar" on BOTH sides of the axle on the pic Warload posted.

 

This is part of a back-up system (similar to Arrow chassis). If, by chance, a wheel assembly or spindle failure shears off or a road wheel has a problem (in that the axle will shift and tilt-lower) this rod actually "digs" into the track acting as a braking mechanism to (hopefully) stop the train. If by chance the cotter pin (used to secure the nut on that pin holding the guide wheel) came loose, sheared away, or fatigue, this can cause the whole axle assembly to collapse and actually completely disengage the body bolts and shear the coach off its holding (on the axle). For example, look at the pics of the derailed coach and how the axle assembly is further up along the brake run.

If this scenario happened, the body bolts couldn't handle the stress level of the axle engaging or "digging" into the track rail and guaging by the potential speed, the coach body bolts just sheared off and therefore the coach just came loose off the wheel carrier assembly. ***One note from the first pic-----Look how rusted that bolt/cotter pin/and threading is! At BG (especially Nessie and BBW) we used a small amount of Lithium grease to coat that area to help aid against oxidation/rust; especially during rainy days.

On a personal note, I am quite surprised how small (diameter) those uplift wheels are. Especially for the speeds this thing can encounter. I really thought they would have a larger size/diameter wheel. I can assume they replace those things often..lol

 

I still believe, from looking at the news photos and accident photos others posted on this thread, that a mis-aligned brake/knife blade actually caused the derailment. As I stated on an earlier post, these brake blade can warp (fairly easily) over time and just a small mis-alignment issue out of spec. can cause all of this damage. I'm not saying its a common (everyday) event, but on Arrow inspections I believe it was Mandatory to inspect the guiding/aligment of the brake blade every day/nite. These blades are hardened steel (and quite heavy) and generate ALOT of heat/cool down/heat/cool down on each run. In most cases, the Arrow and Morgan "caliper" brake runs more than likely use Brass for the braking pads (easy to reduce wear/heat/re-use).

 

THanks again for the pics guys! I could be wrong of the whole scenario, and I'm just going off past experiences I seen/witnessed off of Arrow coasters, but the pics are pretty close to damning evidence of possible brake blade issues OR even the brake unit itself.

[jamesdillaman]

I'm shocked no one has realized that maybe this was all to hype up the park. Maybe it was a staged incident, all the people on the train were actors or paid stunt people... Like it's said, bad publicity is still publicity.

James "Sorry for the weird smartass mood" Dillaman

 

 

(Just so you don't think I'm uncaring, I do feel for the people who were on the ride, if that happened to me I'd be really shaken up. I'm glad no one was seriously injured *JD*)

[TDMAMBA]

Actually Mamba used to go through wheels heavily and this was when it was still abeing heavily trimmed. It would do a test run and the acceleration roar of the train was amplified and sounded like a jet engine. Then you could hear a clanky sound when it returned through the plaza area. I hope you scenario was a brake run issue. I hope they also insepct the B-Brake too cause if it happened up there they're a good 70 feet off the ground and that would have been worse.

Mamba used to be hard trimmed. Not Wild THing hard but close but most of last year and pretty much all this year it's been easing up a GOOD amount on the B-Brake. In fact it gets better as the sun sets. When it gets dark there are nights where it barely slows down and it comes rocketing through the bunny hops. Mamba really has improved overall these past 2 seasons. So if anyone here hasn't been on it in the past year or rode during the daytime when it was hot are missing out on this beast's potential.

[Jon Sabo]

Here is a post I found from a local paper:

 

"As the six-car coaster was braking at the end of its run, the last car somehow uncoupled from the car in front of it. To do that, a load-carrying bar that connects the chassis of the two cars had to fail, as did two safety chains that connect the fifth and sixth cars."

 

Credit Link: http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/state/minnesota/14643657.htm

 

The load carrier bar he is referring to is the one as shown in the previous two pictures posted on this thread. Hope this may help in my explanation on previous postings..lol

Ciao

[maeryk]

If anyone knows for sure what's up with the other Morgan coasters...

 

As of five minutes ago, Steel Force is running all three trains. Of course, the park is closed, so they are empty, but I'd say the lift chain is fixed.

 

I would hazard a guess that they are A) breaking in the chain and B) testing it for the same issues that WT encountered.

 

(It's nice to work 8 minutes from the park!)

 

Maeryk

[coaster mad]

Any updates here?

[Bubba Z]

Yes it is testing ! Should be open soon, but what do I know.

[coaster mad]

Thats good news so do you think it will be open by the first?

[GAcoaster]

Should be re-opening this weekend.

[Jon Sabo]

I just noticed an earlier post I have missed.

 

WHY?!!! on earth would a park try to "stage" and event such as this to get hype?

 

Not only is this a rediculous assumption, but if (any) park ever perfomed such an act (regardless of using 'stunt-actors') the CPSC, OSHA, Fed-Regulatory Commerce Commission put such a heavy fine on the park(s), they actually would be forced to close down (for an extended period of time) and I would likely bet that entire operations management would be fire & face criminal acts.

No park would ever stage an act such as this. I cannot even fathom such an act. The general public would take note of this and the participating park would loose a whole lot more than just "gain advertising gimmick".

[maeryk]

Uhh.. what? Why would _any_ of those agencies fine a park for something that was a staged accident?

 

None of them would care, I'd wager.

[CP_RULES]

To do that, a load-carrying bar that connects the chassis of the two cars had to fail, as did two safety chains that connect the fifth and sixth cars."

 

It wouldn't suprise me at all if the "safety chains" broke. When I was at WOF a couple weeks ago, those "safety chains" were tiny chains (about the size of a chain on a swing) that were all rusty. Its kind of ironic because when I rode Mamba I was trying to scare the person I was with by saying the cars would come apart and only those chains could save us....

[steel]

I just noticed an earlier post I have missed.

 

WHY?!!! on earth would a park try to "stage" and event such as this to get hype?

 

Not only is this a rediculous assumption, but if (any) park ever perfomed such an act (regardless of using 'stunt-actors') the CPSC, OSHA, Fed-Regulatory Commerce Commission put such a heavy fine on the park(s), they actually would be forced to close down (for an extended period of time) and I would likely bet that entire operations management would be fire & face criminal acts.

No park would ever stage an act such as this. I cannot even fathom such an act. The general public would take note of this and the participating park would loose a whole lot more than just "gain advertising gimmick".

 

You really can't read at all, can you?

Go back and look at that post carefully. It's really quite obvious.

[Jon Sabo]

^ I certainly have a right to express my opinion here as anyone else does. Perhaps you misread the comments yourself. Let the moderators challenge a comment that may be in question. If you have to make comments like this, then perhaps you should look at your own post and provide a response in a manner that reflects the discussion (even if it is a joke).

[Wes]

^ and ^^, calm down and knock it off.

 

James was obviously making a joke when he posted his original "what if it was fake" comment. You guys are blowing this out of proportion.

[Jon Sabo]

I'm curious if the Morgan engineers will attend the other parks with similar chassis/coaster trains once they find the cause. Someone reported the other ride was closed down, but I think that was due to the lift chain being replaced.

Assuming it is a knife/brake blade misalignment, I think they should just incorporate a new shim-adjustment to the chassis so the blade flexing wouldn't be so close to tolerance levels during the heat/cool-down periods. Also, the trains on Steel Phantom (Kennywood) have the same style axles-anyone know? Or are they still using the Arrow chassis with Morgan coaches?