C.P.A.Guy Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 http://www.mvp.usace.army.mil/Portals/57/docs/regulatory/MN-Standard/2014004059P.pdf If you look at the very last page, the photo with proposed elevation grades. Where it says Wetland B and Wetland D, it looks like there will be two culverts installed to allow water to flow through the new road. If you look at where the culverts would let water flow through, there seems to already be a little valley like stream that would let water through at the Wetland D culvert and flow towards and out the Wetland B culvert. It looks like a dark line that cuts south right after it goes through Wetland culvert D, then cuts west along where it says Wetland A, and then would flow out the Wetland B culvert. Looking further at the plans, it looks like they are willing to let water flow through the back of the park, which in a bad flood year, this probably wouldn't protect much of anything in the back of the park below that 710-715 elevation level which much of Renegade and Thunder Canyon sit. It looks like from judging past flood photos that anything below that elevation 710-715 is probably in danger of flooding. It looks like only the parking lot and access road is being raised above that 710-715 mark and the rest of the new area inside the new access road will remain around that 710 mark. You can see the new elevation of the access road will be at 718.6. Those culverts kind of baffle me. Why would you make a new access road with a main purpose to protect future land from flooding, then have culverts let water in and flow through. This would probably be fine in an average flood year where it would simply just flow through and not back up flooding Renegade and Thunder Canyon. But in any bad flood year, I have a hard time believing those culverts wouldn't back up and flood that area anyway, or at least the north half of the area. Looking at these plans a littler further, it sort of seems like they were drawn up to ensure that water would flow past Renegade, protecting Renegade even if water is let in through the culvert, and to create an additional parking lot/entrance to the water park. Looks like the north half of the area inside the new access road would still be very flood prone. The proposed parking lot seems to end right next to that Wetland B culvert as well which leads me to believe water would flow through right along the end of the new parking lot. It does state in the application that, "These new parking lots would allow for some development of the existing parking lots within the levee." Besides some new water park attractions and a new water park entrance, I don't think the back of the park is going to see much change right away. Not saying that revamping the water park with a few new slide complexes wouldn't be a ton of change, because it would! I'd put money on the next coaster being in the front of the park at the Amphitheater or Dinosaurs Alive location. Unless more elevation grading happens in the following year to raise the land inside the new access road for a new coaster, which is more than likely possible. There would be a lot of head shaking going on if you build a brand new B&M in the back of the park and it's sitting under water on opening day. I think if a new coaster is built in the back, I'd look for it to be wood or have concrete supports up until 715 elevation mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACES Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Are they going to raise the land up in the back of the park like they did with Steel Venom and put higher flood walls up? Look how close the water came to Steel Venom during the flooding. I'm curious is the new access road that's supposed to go around the edge of the park going to be wider for semi trucks and delevery trucks plus is it going to be a bridge higher up from flooding? Valleyfair flooding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboor129 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 If anyone else here goes on Ultimaterollercoaster.com there is a small Valleyfair forum there as well. Just sharing the thoughts of what a user on there posted earlier today. It's interesting to here other people's theories. This is what he/she wrote: Just stumbled across this as I was looking at maps of vallyfair. And I think I figured out where a B&M Invert might go. If you look at a Google Earth of the park, there is a huge overflow car park parallel to steel venom,but back a ways. With my experience at vallyfair, I've never seen a single car in that area, and I've always bean there on busy days. For 2016, I think they should fence off the extra parking lot, make it look nice, and put a brand new B&M Invert there. There would be no need to take down any rollercosters currently in the park, and it would be a great extension to the park. It would be similar to what Six Flags Magic Mountain did with Scream! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleyfairfanatic Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Just rode the white slides in the back of the park today (not the speed slides but the body slides,) and I forgot how fun they were! My favorite slides were #2 because of its insane left/right transitions, and #3 because of the good sized drop mid ride. I wasn't too impressed with the paint job on the inside of the slide, as there was clear reddish brownish discoloring commonly seen in old slides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vette2006c5r Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Heading up to VF for the first time on Sunday. Any need for a fast pass? I am expecting crowds like at DP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACES Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 With the inverted and the lay out of the station and supports couldn't they raise it higher above the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Heading up to VF for the first time on Sunday. Any need for a fast pass? I am expecting crowds like at DP. No, you probably won't need a Fast Lane pass. There may be a few crowds on Sunday, but you will probably be able to ride all of the coasters once in about three hours or so (probably less if you arrive earlier in the day). Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarFair1 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Cedar Point is making annoucement in August, Carowinds announced the closure of Thunder Road in July, CFGA Vortex getting transformed into floorless coaster possibly in 2016 so this kind of makes me wonder about annoucement coming for Excalibur in August maybe it will stay open during the haunt for one last ride. I know the park is working on getting something new for our anniversary in 2016. Valleyfair can do the same thing what Dorney Park did with the removal of Hercules for a new B&M floorless coaster Hydra The Revenge Valleyfair removal of Excalibur for a new B&M inverted coaster not in Excaliburs spot but some we're in the back of the park. Also on that list is the massive construction site at Canada's WOnderland with the removal of Skyrider. We have the most activity and construction so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vette2006c5r Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Heading up to VF for the first time on Sunday. Any need for a fast pass? I am expecting crowds like at DP. No, you probably won't need a Fast Lane pass. There may be a few crowds on Sunday, but you will probably be able to ride all of the coasters once in about three hours or so (probably less if you arrive earlier in the day). Have fun! Thanks for the info. Looks like this will be my first and last time riding Excalibur, I will have to provide a full review, I know everyone can't wait. I think a compact and forcefull B&M Inverted would be perfect for this park. Something like Batman or Talon would be my hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACES Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Is this the year for ride removals for Cedar Fair? 2015 (1) Carowinds: Thunder Road. (July). (2) Canada's Wonderland: Sky Rider. (3) Valleyfair: Rumor Excalibur. (For Water Park Expansion). Maybe one more year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCI Wooden Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hey guys, you know how on the Fun TV they sometimes play POV videos, well, here are the ones that they play from Valleyfair: https://www.valleyfair.com/online-fun/virtual-rides-by-gamefly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariznglori Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hey guys, you know how on the Fun TV they sometimes play POV videos, well, here are the ones that they play from Valleyfair: https://www.valleyfair.com/online-fun/virtual-rides-by-gamefly I've gotta say that Valleyfair's website is getting much better. The only thing they really need to step up is that blog...it hasn't been updated in over a month! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCI Wooden Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hey guys, you know how on the Fun TV they sometimes play POV videos, well, here are the ones that they play from Valleyfair: https://www.valleyfair.com/online-fun/virtual-rides-by-gamefly I've gotta say that Valleyfair's website is getting much better. The only thing they really need to step up is that blog...it hasn't been updated in over a month! You know, I actually forgot they even had a blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hey guys, you know how on the Fun TV they sometimes play POV videos, well, here are the ones that they play from Valleyfair: https://www.valleyfair.com/online-fun/virtual-rides-by-gamefly I've gotta say that Valleyfair's website is getting much better. The only thing they really need to step up is that blog...it hasn't been updated in over a month! They also need to work on updating their attraction lists. Bumper Cars and MRVR are still listed as closed from last fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCI Wooden Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 ^Why is there a picture of Mad Mouse on the MNRV Section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCjunkie Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'd put money on the next coaster being in the front of the park at the Amphitheater or Dinosaurs Alive location. Unless more elevation grading happens in the following year to raise the land inside the new access road for a new coaster, which is more than likely possible. The Dino's are not going anywhere though. They are still at other CF parks like KI and CP which have had them even longer and they are still there. Plus there is no announcement to remove them from any CF park. But if VF gets an additional parking lot in the back they can take out some parking spaces in the front to add a coaster and even redo the entrance if they want so I agree the next coaster will be in the front of the park. And with all CF parks getting a dark ride in the future I see the Amphitheater as the only viable area to build a building of that size without moving or removing other attractions. Anything though is possible if the new parking lot gets approved. That opens up many more options for the park to expand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.P.A.Guy Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The Dino's are not going anywhere though. They are still at other CF parks like KI and CP which have had them even longer and they are still there. Plus there is no announcement to remove them from any CF park. A reason I mentioned that the Dino's location would be an option for a coaster in the near future is because Valleyfair doesn't seem to do very well with additional charge attractions. Skyscraper only lasted a couple seasons, the go karts and mini golf were removed. I don't see any of those attractions being removed if they were making decent money. It wouldn't surprise me if Valleyfair's Dinos were the first to go in the chain despite being one of the later parks to add the attraction. If the Dinos weren't free with a season pass, I can honestly say I'd never pay to go in there. I don't have kids though, so maybe that would make it a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariznglori Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'd put money on the next coaster being in the front of the park at the Amphitheater or Dinosaurs Alive location. Unless more elevation grading happens in the following year to raise the land inside the new access road for a new coaster, which is more than likely possible. The Dino's are not going anywhere though. They are still at other CF parks like KI and CP which have had them even longer and they are still there. Plus there is no announcement to remove them from any CF park. But if VF gets an additional parking lot in the back they can take out some parking spaces in the front to add a coaster and even redo the entrance if they want so I agree the next coaster will be in the front of the park. And with all CF parks getting a dark ride in the future I see the Amphitheater as the only viable area to build a building of that size without moving or removing other attractions. Anything though is possible if the new parking lot gets approved. That opens up many more options for the park to expand. With the quote earlier that we would see footer prep as the mark of being two years from a coaster, it's possible that we might see footers getting poured in Dinos Alive while it's still going in 2018/19, especially if they leave in 2019/20 as forecasted. In the meantime, 2016 could be a new lot/perimeter road and waterpark entrance and expansion 2017 a possible new flat (this may go in 2016 even, idk) and additional waterpark expansion (someone said it might be a 3 phase expansion instead of just 2?) 2018 could be a dark ride on the amphitheater's location 2019 could be the beginning of construction on a new invert on the Dinos spot that utilizees that coned-off section of parking lot as well. I suspect that may be another good reason for a new waterpark lot as they want to develop on the existing parking lot, but they don't specify what exactly that development is in any plans....so it suggests coaster usage to me (as expected? ). Could be a pretty big invert if that much space is used, to be honest. I wouldn't want to see a new coaster pushed that far out, but if there are a lot of good intermediate additions to tide the GP over, it could be worth the wait to have an overall better park. Does this type of plan seem likely given the info we're getting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_mamba Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 With the success of Jurrasic World I think it would not be a sound business decision to get rid of the dinosaurs. I say piggy back off that exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmillzy Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Having a roller coaster pushed out even further than 2017 is ridiculous. There has been some talk about Michigans Adventure being the next park to get a coaster (essentially ahead of us). I think this is nonsense. I believe that Michigans Adventure is going to be sold sometime in the near future, because CF has not spent any money on the place (Thunderhawk is a 18 year old used invert). One possible idea for Michigans Adventure would be to take our Excalibur and make it stand up, even though that would never happen. Michigans Adventure has also not put in a Planet/Camp Snoopy and Dinosaurs Alive like many other parks have. I think they realize that when they sell the park they would just have to take out that stuff or un-license it. I think they will leave it up for the new owners for a new coaster. With that being said, I think VF will get.... 2016: Additional Parking Lot, B&M Invert in the Front as GateKeeper (Too risky in back with floods) 2017: Cedar Creek Flyers ride in Wild Thing Grass, Tube Slide Tower in SoakCity 2018: New Dining Options, Shows 2019: Dinosaurs Removed (We have to have them until end of 2018.) New Dark Ride 2020: New Carousel or New Flume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmillzy Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 With the success of Jurrasic World I think it would not be a sound business decision to get rid of the dinosaurs. I say piggy back off that exposure. Valleyfair doesn't own Jurassic Park rights, and they can't really even mention anything regarding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariznglori Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 ^ But people love dinosaurs, and you gotta admit the fonts used for Dinos Alive are reminescent of the Jurassic Park franchise. They clearly can, have, and will piggyback on its success, which makes a lot of sense. It's a $3 mil upcharge attraction, they need to get every penny out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF15 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Having a roller coaster pushed out even further than 2017 is ridiculous. There has been some talk about Michigans Adventure being the next park to get a coaster (essentially ahead of us). I think this is nonsense. I believe that Michigans Adventure is going to be sold sometime in the near future, because CF has not spent any money on the place (Thunderhawk is a 18 year old used invert). One possible idea for Michigans Adventure would be to take our Excalibur and make it stand up, even though that would never happen. Michigans Adventure has also not put in a Planet/Camp Snoopy and Dinosaurs Alive like many other parks have. I think they realize that when they sell the park they would just have to take out that stuff or un-license it. I think they will leave it up for the new owners for a new coaster. Cedar Fair is not going to sell Michigan's Adventure anytime soon. MiA has one of the largest profit margins in the chain despite its small size, and as long as it's pulling in decent money, there's no need to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grsupercity Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Having a roller coaster pushed out even further than 2017 is ridiculous. There has been some talk about Michigans Adventure being the next park to get a coaster (essentially ahead of us). I think this is nonsense. I believe that Michigans Adventure is going to be sold sometime in the near future, because CF has not spent any money on the place (Thunderhawk is a 18 year old used invert). One possible idea for Michigans Adventure would be to take our Excalibur and make it stand up, even though that would never happen. Michigans Adventure has also not put in a Planet/Camp Snoopy and Dinosaurs Alive like many other parks have. I think they realize that when they sell the park they would just have to take out that stuff or un-license it. I think they will leave it up for the new owners for a new coaster. With that being said, I think VF will get.... 2016: Additional Parking Lot, B&M Invert in the Front as GateKeeper (Too risky in back with floods) 2017: Cedar Creek Flyers ride in Wild Thing Grass, Tube Slide Tower in SoakCity 2018: New Dining Options, Shows 2019: Dinosaurs Removed (We have to have them until end of 2018.) New Dark Ride 2020: New Carousel or New Flume Lol were you dropped on your head? MIA has the highest profit margins in the chain. They literally do nothing to the park and it gets more guest every year and continues to make more profits. Even when they were looking to sell a couple parks in 2008 they didnt put MIA up for sale. Dont be jaded because you dont like the recent additions to VF and you believe VF is due for a coaster. Alot of cedar fair parks are. VF needs a better water park. I bet you anything that is there current focus. .02 p.s MIA hasn't built a new attraction in 2 years, and just some larson flyers before that. With it being there 60th Anniversary this year, I dont think a small coaster is out the question at all. Edited June 17, 2015 by grsupercity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCI Wooden Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) With the success of Jurrasic World I think it would not be a sound business decision to get rid of the dinosaurs. I say piggy back off that exposure. Valleyfair doesn't own Jurassic Park rights, and they can't really even mention anything regarding it. They do own Dinosaurs, though. And is has become incredibly apparent that people love dinosaurs. Edited June 17, 2015 by GCI Wooden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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