New shuttle coaster for Conny Land for 2007

[themeparkologist]

Someone will DIE on this i just know it

 

Someone will shoot me down but it looks like a kiddie coaster on steriods! Does PAX even think about comfort? Afer the bunny hill, the loop looks way too tight and the high forces continue through the fishook and then you hang there and get launched Backward UPSIDE DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gutterflower]

* In the off ride pov, they never show the breaks at either end? Why not? If the breaks are working fine then why have they bothered not showing them?

* 1:15 theres a sudden camera cut

* At 1:21 look at the clouds. They suddenly jolt, it looks more like they edited it together 5minutes later and the clouds moved.

* 1:25 obvious camera change. I don't think they suddenly decelerated and accelerated in the opposite direction that fast, there's clearly some editing going on. I really have to wonder how they got such un-natural motions to happen without some camera magic there.

* at 1:30 Theres another camera cut where it seems to skip a second of the ride in the loop.

* The most obvious and important one of them all. Probably some problems with the breaks? At 1:44 look at the clouds again. They skip forwards about 20minutes, why?

 

Im not so sure on this. For example check the final one when the ride brakes on the entrance to the station. yes the camera skips slightly but the clouds dont move more than a few seconds rather than a whole 20mins. You can clearly see the clouds moving at quite a speed on the video afterwards.

 

The same with the Camera on the end spike. Look closely and the clouds dont change. The camera reacts to the change in light but if you compare the clouds on the entrance and exit to the spike they appear the same. I use a thin dark whip of cloud on the left which is visible as the camera adjusts.

 

The skip in the return loop is obvious but i think its just a few missed frames as the camera again adjusts.

 

I think the answer is probably just a dodgy camera. It dows cut out at times but it doesnt appear to be 2 videos stiched together.

 

Just my 2pence

 

Anyway I like the look of this. Its brilliantly original and really mixes it up.

ive love the look of them since seeing this.

must give some awesome air

[robbalvey]

Obvious Points:

* In the off ride pov, they never show the breaks at either end? Why not? If the breaks are working fine then why have they bothered not showing them?

* 1:15 theres a sudden camera cut

* At 1:21 look at the clouds. They suddenly jolt, it looks more like they edited it together 5minutes later and the clouds moved.

* 1:25 obvious camera change. I don't think they suddenly decelerated and accelerated in the opposite direction that fast, there's clearly some editing going on. I really have to wonder how they got such un-natural motions to happen without some camera magic there.

* at 1:30 Theres another camera cut where it seems to skip a second of the ride in the loop.

* The most obvious and important one of them all. Probably some problems with the breaks? At 1:44 look at the clouds again. They skip forwards about 20minutes, why?

LMAO!!!

 

What exactly are you trying to prove??? That they've covered up a murder or a terrorist attack with this video???

 

So the video may have been edited. Big deal. We edit our POV videos all the time.

 

But then again, we are covering up murders and terrorist attacks!!!

 

--Robb

[B&Mmmmm]

^^

I can totally see where you're coming from there, and I think we can safely say that all the things I pointed out have better explanations. The last skip would also probably just be them editing out a useless few second break in which the train is fully stopped on the breaks.

 

I hope I'm not/wasn't coming across as jumping to a conclusion, though. I don't want to do that, and I'm hoping that the ride runs well and is sucesful. I was just not totally sure whether we could get our hopes up until we've seen a totally unedited clip from start to finish so I can put any doubt to the rides operation to rest (Although, now I think there is very very little room for any doubt.)

 

=====

EDIT:

^ Well I'm facing myself a losing arguement here, even though I was never convinced on anything in the first place. You'd clearly know *MUCH* more about filming and coasters than me and would easily be considered the expert, and me the uninformed fool, and I've got no doubts you'd see if anything really was suspicious before I would. I'm never one for conspiracies and when I think about it it's very unlikely that a park with a reputation to uphold would consider making a fake video.

 

My original post wasn't trying to "Prove" anything. I just made some observations and wasn't sure what to make of them, and threw them out to see if anyone could make some better sense of them. Sorry if I came across wrongly there :l. From other peoples responses I can safely say that all of the things I spotted in the video are far more likely to be caused by other things than some kind of trickery. I take back anything I said and can totally see why you might find it ridiculous! But as I've said, I was only posting what I saw to see if there were any better explanations for it, and now I have a better explanation I can put any of my doubt to rest Much thanks to Gutterflower.

[DenDen]

People are over-analizing this video. You can tell it was shot with one of those cheap pocket video cams you get for $30 at Wal-Mart. Anyone that has one knows they skip frames, and in motion, distort the shape of things. That's why the track doesn't look smooth. Heck, they probably used some cheap video editor to make it look as good as it does.

 

The coaster looks insanely awesome!

[tanthonyam]

Seriously, stop over-analyzing this! Why would someone say it will kill somebody? Has PAX ever had any fatalities on their rides? Have any of their rides collapsed? NO! Just because it does not look like a Intamin or a B&M don't put it down. I think it's very original, if only for that unique reverse point being inverted.

[coasterdude5]

There's something about this coaster that fascinates me, no matter how bizarre/uncomfortable it might turn out to be! Maybe someone in the US will be brave enough to install it in their park. Ghetto carnival travelling edition maybe?

[snowboard83]

Seriously, stop over-analyzing this! Why would someone say it will kill somebody? Has PAX ever had any fatalities on their rides? Have any of their rides collapsed? NO! Just because it does not look like a Intamin or a B&M don't put it down. I think it's very original, if only for that unique reverse point being inverted.

 

Not to put you down, but there have been at least two fatalities on PAX coasters since 2005. One in this very year in France...check facts before writing!

One of the major things many are ( and rightfully are) concerned about are the brakes. After an epic fail with PAXs braking system on Formule 1 in France shortly after it opened, (with a loss of life I believe) Soquet was hired to fix the brakes And had to scratch PAX's brakes completely, installing their own.

 

Now humor the rest of us on this board, and think of what could go wrong if a tiny thing were to go wrong in the breaking in the reverse spike. The train clearly makes it to the end of the track, even when slowed (maybe with a some help from wheels, that's still up for debate). Now imagine if this 5 ton or so train runs through the brakes and they fail. Do you really think a simple pinball stopper at the end of a very fragile appearing peice of track is going to hold back that inertia? I'm no physicist, but I am leaning toward NO.

 

Don't get me, or any of us wrong here, Connyland is new to the coaster business, and I REALLY hope this ride will work out for them. But i am worried about quality issues with this ride. It will be PAX's most unique and intense coaster to date. If a simple wild mouse built in 2005 from them does not have anywhere close to a perfect safety record (though I hear that ride is awsome!) what makes you so confident this one has no underlying problems.

 

Even with the trackwork not being exactly smooth, you get a bad feeling.

 

DenDen, I know you credited the shoddy camera for "warping" the track, however I do not think this is the case, as nothing else in the scene (clouds, trees, coffins) seem to warp. B&Mmmmm was kind enough to share a link much less edited than the first YouTube video posted here. Going backwards, much more slowly, you can see the track inperfections very clearly (whether they are supposed to be like that or not).

 

As many before me have said, this coaster looks very promising, and could help brew up more shuttle coasters and help us get away from B&m cookie cutters and the current (though hopefully ending) unimaginitivity many designers currently seem to be stuck in. I for one am ready to jump on the first plane out when the ride opens.

 

With the success of this ride, it would be fantastic to see PAX explode onto the scene as a major designer. They definately are imaginitive (if not cracked out)

[SharkTums]

^Like you said Connyland is new to the coaster business...I'd love to find out why they went with a PAX Prototype!?!?

[CorkscrewFoley]

Because they were cracked out too? ^ Who knows, Cobra might be more reliable than the Super Collider they have deep within the Alps...

[SharkTums]

Maybe we should have PAX help with the fixes to the supercollider! That would certainly lead to good things happening!

[Devious]

two fatalities on PAX coasters since 2005. One in this very year in France...check facts before writing!

One of the major things many are ( and rightfully are) concerned about are the brakes. After an epic fail with PAXs braking system on Formule 1 in France shortly after it opened, (with a loss of life I believe) Soquet was hired to fix the brakes And had to scratch PAX's brakes completely, installing their own.

 

Now humor the rest of us on this board, and think of what could go wrong if a tiny thing were to go wrong in the breaking in the reverse spike. The train clearly makes it to the end of the track, even when slowed (maybe with a some help from wheels, that's still up for debate). Now imagine if this 5 ton or so train runs through the brakes and they fail. Do you really think a simple pinball stopper at the end of a very fragile appearing peice of track is going to hold back that inertia? I'm no physicist, but I am leaning toward NO.

 

Top part - True

 

Bottom part - False

 

The end inverted spike after the loop is taller than you think, Just like a vekoma Boomerang, The train is pushed (By wheels in this case) to the end of the spike before they release and it completes the course in reverse, though slower than initially

 

If the wheels on the inverted spike fail, it's far more likely the train would stall between the hills or the base of the loop on one side or the other than it is that the train would slam into and break through that metal stopper

 

Why? the train lacks the speed to do it, the loop and invert into the spike rob it of a LOT of speed (as shown well in the video)

 

Theres your physics

 

I MUST ride this at some point, PAX Coasters are nuts, and this looks REALLY good

-Z

[King of Ka]

Maybe we should have PAX help with the fixes to the supercollider! That would certainly lead to good things happening!

 

Only if Intamin supplies the cables.

[SharkTums]

^This has the making of an awesome SyFy Channel movie! Pax Rides, Super Colliders and Intamin Cables...I love it!

[snowboard83]

^Like you said Connyland is new to the coaster business...I'd love to find out why they went with a PAX Prototype!?!?

 

Hell if I know Elissa! They must have REAAAAAALLY wanted something different. But I am guessing the main player was space inside the park, and money. Though it is humourous with world renouned engineering the Swiss do, they hire...PAX.

 

two fatalities on PAX coasters since 2005. One in this very year in France...check facts before writing!

One of the major things many are ( and rightfully are) concerned about are the brakes. After an epic fail with PAXs braking system on Formule 1 in France shortly after it opened, (with a loss of life I believe) Soquet was hired to fix the brakes And had to scratch PAX's brakes completely, installing their own.

 

Now humor the rest of us on this board, and think of what could go wrong if a tiny thing were to go wrong in the breaking in the reverse spike. The train clearly makes it to the end of the track, even when slowed (maybe with a some help from wheels, that's still up for debate). Now imagine if this 5 ton or so train runs through the brakes and they fail. Do you really think a simple pinball stopper at the end of a very fragile appearing peice of track is going to hold back that inertia? I'm no physicist, but I am leaning toward NO.

 

Top part - True

 

Bottom part - False

 

The end inverted spike after the loop is taller than you think, Just like a vekoma Boomerang, The train is pushed (By wheels in this case) to the end of the spike before they release and it completes the course in reverse, though slower than initially

 

If the wheels on the inverted spike fail, it's far more likely the train would stall between the hills or the base of the loop on one side or the other than it is that the train would slam into and break through that metal stopper

 

Why? the train lacks the speed to do it, the loop and invert into the spike rob it of a LOT of speed (as shown well in the video)

 

One thing about that. While after a long hard look at some of the stills in the video, you can see the spike is a fair distance up. While you are may be right about it not having inertia to get to the end of the spike, that is not certian IMO. Check out the massive speed the train has in the loop on the off ride footage. Then check out the on ride footage again and watch the large decrease in rate of speed as soon as the train experiences the wheel and brake combo more than halfway up said spike. Without those being there, I do believe the train (especially a full one) has a good opportunity to make it to the end. I think the wheels are responsible for ensuring the train's placement on the spike is proper, so the speed does not fall short in the reverse portion of the ride. If the wheels were not there, in an empty train there is no way the ride would make it to the end of the spike, where it seems the train must get to have this speed.

 

I do agree with you in the threat for valleying if these wheels do not get something right as the speed coming down from the spike barely has enough speed to get through the loop of this only semi weighted train (at least I assume there is weight in the seats, you can see something helping test the restraints, maybe sandbags).

[snowboard83]

^This has the making of an awesome SyFy Channel movie! Pax Rides, Super Colliders and Intamin Cables...I love it!

 

ROFLMFAO.

 

Has anyone seen that SyFy MegaFault movie? That movie is the worst thing ever made, and the movie we all got to say goodbye to Brittney Murphy in! THANKS SYFY!

 

No seriously, I wanted to see how bad that movie was...I was curious. Thought it would be humorous to see how bad it could be... I should have listened. I have scars on my wrists from movie night now.

 

SyFy (worst movie maker), Intamin (most unreliable reliable ride company on earth), PAX rides ('nuff said), and a massive science accellerator... Someone call the FBI! I think that qualifies as a terrorist attack!

[Devious]

I do agree with you in the threat for valleying if these wheels do not get something right as the speed coming down from the spike barely has enough speed to get through the loop of this only semi weighted train (at least I assume there is weight in the seats, you can see something helping test the restraints, maybe sandbags).

 

Okay, do this, Open No Limits, and build this layout using the photos provided without the brakes on the second spike

 

Then, Keep in mind the second spike is only ~10' shorter than the first, the train is being dropped by the back end from the top of the first spike, and has 2 bunny hills and a small loop before it

 

the REASON it slows down so much is 2 fold, A. the inverted spike is tall, fairly steep, and has a speed-robbing inversion into it & B. The spike also has friction wheels that the train hits that slow it down

 

Now, if the wheels fail, the train MIGHT make it more than halfway up that second spike, but we live in a world of friction and drag, A fully loaded train on it weighs a lot, and may have more inertia, but its also slowed more by the gravity acting on it + Friction + Drag

 

Trust me on this one, if those wheels fail, it will valley, not derail, and will most likely valley in the curve from loop to inverted spike

[ginzo]

Though it is humourous with world renouned engineering the Swiss do, they hire...PAX.

 

I've always thought it was funny that Switzerland has no Swiss coasters, but it's not like they're lacking in thrills. In the winter they have insane skiing and during the summer the Alpine region becomes one of the leading places for extreme sports in the world.

 

Maybe roller coasters are a bit unnecessary when you've got base jumping, paragliding, white water rafting, bungee jumping from cable cars, bungee jumping from helicopters, ropes courses, etc.

[snowboard83]

I do agree with you in the threat for valleying if these wheels do not get something right as the speed coming down from the spike barely has enough speed to get through the loop of this only semi weighted train (at least I assume there is weight in the seats, you can see something helping test the restraints, maybe sandbags).

 

Okay, do this, Open No Limits, and build this layout using the photos provided without the brakes on the second spike

 

Then, Keep in mind the second spike is only ~10' shorter than the first, the train is being dropped by the back end from the top of the first spike, and has 2 bunny hills and a small loop before it

 

the REASON it slows down so much is 2 fold, A. the inverted spike is tall, fairly steep, and has a speed-robbing inversion into it & B. The spike also has friction wheels that the train hits that slow it down

 

Now, if the wheels fail, the train MIGHT make it more than halfway up that second spike, but we live in a world of friction and drag, A fully loaded train on it weighs a lot, and may have more inertia, but its also slowed more by the gravity acting on it + Friction + Drag

 

Trust me on this one, if those wheels fail, it will valley, not derail, and will most likely valley in the curve from loop to inverted spike

 

A: How do you know the inverted spike is 10 feet lower. I have never found any data on this... Its MUCH lower than that from what I can tell from all angles.

 

B: If the brake wheels are halfway up the spike to begin with...and the (empty) train is already travelling at a high rate AT that area, with little track left between brakes and end of the track..., how do you explain that if it is 10 feet lower.

 

C. Do we know what the elevation is like right there... you are in a hilly-mountainous area at Connyland and the ride could slope somewhat downhill, or uphill.

[Devious]

I do agree with you in the threat for valleying if these wheels do not get something right as the speed coming down from the spike barely has enough speed to get through the loop of this only semi weighted train (at least I assume there is weight in the seats, you can see something helping test the restraints, maybe sandbags).

 

Okay, do this, Open No Limits, and build this layout using the photos provided without the brakes on the second spike

 

Then, Keep in mind the second spike is only ~10' shorter than the first, the train is being dropped by the back end from the top of the first spike, and has 2 bunny hills and a small loop before it

 

the REASON it slows down so much is 2 fold, A. the inverted spike is tall, fairly steep, and has a speed-robbing inversion into it & B. The spike also has friction wheels that the train hits that slow it down

 

Now, if the wheels fail, the train MIGHT make it more than halfway up that second spike, but we live in a world of friction and drag, A fully loaded train on it weighs a lot, and may have more inertia, but its also slowed more by the gravity acting on it + Friction + Drag

 

Trust me on this one, if those wheels fail, it will valley, not derail, and will most likely valley in the curve from loop to inverted spike

 

A: How do you know the inverted spike is 10 feet lower. I have never found any data on this... Its MUCH lower than that from what I can tell from all angles.

 

B: If the brake wheels are halfway up the spike to begin with...and the (empty) train is already travelling at a high rate AT that area, with little track left between brakes and end of the track..., how do you explain that if it is 10 feet lower.

 

C. Do we know what the elevation is like right there... you are in a hilly-mountainous area at Connyland and the ride could slope somewhat downhill, or uphill.

 

A. By design, Do NOT take it at purely vertical elevation, it is a combination of Distance AND height, The back spike is roughly 90 feet tall (36m by spec sheet W/cobra head on)

 

the second spike is Roughly 12-16 feet shorter in height (Based on length and specs + Pictures), but the same length if not LONGER travel wise (train appears to take the same amount of track estate on both spikes, if not less on the second)

 

Now, the track is also roughly 130m (390ft-ish) in length, 300 or so not counting the back spike, thats a lot of track for the train to slow down on before even reaching the "block" at the end of the second spike

 

B. The train appears to travel very rapidly into the wheels from the half-loop into the spike, due to the spikes inverted nature, travel distance into it is lesser than if it was not inverted - even though the actual travel distance through the spike is roughly equal to the reverse lift, which also seems to be partially inverted

 

C. The ride was probably engineered with this in mind, as its raised quite high off the ground at the loop end in pictures, this is a non-issue

 

Fairly sure the cracked-out engineers know what they are doing here, and the "Dangerous" appearence of the ride makes me want to ride it even more

[snowboard83]

Fairly sure the cracked-out engineers know what they are doing here, and the "Dangerous" appearence of the ride makes me want to ride it even more

 

while we will have to wait and see on some things we may disagree on, I can definately say that last paragraph was right on in how I feel about it.

 

I can see reliability being a potential killer for the ride, at least it's first few seasons. Connyland needs to have their "big" attraction open more often than not. These concerns were raised when SFGAm's Deja Vu went to Silverwood as well. Good luck to the park and coaster lovers who want to ride this everywhere!

 

Now comes the question.... Will it be more reliable than the Deja Vus were?(besides California's). Ha ha

[thrillrideseeker]

... OMG... Someone is going to end up dying on this coaster... It seems so... What's the word I am looking for??? Oh I know UNSAFE. Now don't get me wrong I am sure PAX knows what its doing ... But come on Blue Flash looks to be more safe. I give this coaster a very short operating life!

~Matthew

[snowboard83]

^ I hope it lasts til I can get there and ride it at least!

 

Now what should PAX do???? OH here we are....

http://www.pax.ru/en/attraction/KatalnieGori.php#paxscreem

[thrillrideseeker]

Hold the fu*k up! Not to change the topic but what the hell is THIS?

~Matthew

[themeparkologist]

^The answer is simple, a PAX rollercoaster. And a pretty messed up one at that.

 

Conversions:

Schwarzkopf Shuttle loop=PAX Cobra=pretty normal for PAX

SLC=PAX suspended coaster(maybe)=HOLY SH!T!!! A SLC from the depths of hell!!!!!