Anybody care about the current steroid issues?

[Jon Sabo]

Curious topic discussion.

*Post your views on steriods.

*And, do current safegards help police the major sports: NBA/NFL/MLB...etc?

*Should the government be involved?

*Should it just be the owners/union of each sport (to police themselves and their policies/standards)?

 

 

 

Recent post from FOXSPORTS:

 

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - The federal investigation of Barry Bonds approaches a key juncture Thursday, with the grand jury probing the baseball star for perjury and tax evasion set to expire and a possible indictment of Bonds looming.

 

Rest of story..

Credit Link: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5785754

[goleafsgo]

i think steroids are just gnna be part of the game nowadays. I think that the amount of players using steroids in baseball however will go down quite alot, because it is pretty easy to tell when a guy starts using 'roids. (hits 5 HRs one season, and 30 the next...)

 

However, i think that in the other major league sports (NBA, NFL, NHL), steroid use will only increase, due to the fact that there is no real drug testing policy in any of those leagues. also, it is hard to tell when a hockey player is using steroids, because all that it would really do for a player is decrease rehab times.

 

Dick Pound (hahaha, what a dumb name) has been saying for a while that 1/3 of hockey players use steroids. All of the hockey community in Canada thinks hes an idiot and whatnot, just because they dont want to believe it is true. However, the NHL hasnt even got a drig testing policy, and i think they are afraid to immpliment a 'real' one, because they are worried about the possible consiquences(sp?)...

Nobody in Canada (and some big hockey towns in the US) wants to believe that steroids are being used in 'their' sport, and think its only for a few baseball players or whatever.

 

I think the best idea for all major league sports is to impliment a drug testing policy that tests as many players as possible as much as possible, with very severe penalties (ex// 1 offense = 1 year ban, 2 offenses = lifetime ban). That will scare most, if not all, players from using mainstream performance enhancing drugs...

 

 

 

BUT! the real problem, is that there are new drugs being developed much faster than there are tests for them, so the use of steroids in sports may be a never ending story, with athaletes just using newer and newer drugs while the league tries to find tests for alll of them...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ANYHOOOO, that was a long-ass post, i hope it kinda makes sense...

[ParkTrips]

*Post your views on steriods.

I blame it on Charley Finley. If not for Free Agency, the pressure to perform wouldn't be so great.

 

*And, do current safegards help police the major sports: NBA/NFL/MLB...etc?

I think MLB is doing an ok job, the others are doing great.

 

*Should the government be involved?

No.

 

*Should it just be the owners/union of each sport (to police themselves and their policies/standards)?

Yes.

 

All I have left to say is that if any record is revoked or asterix'd, I'll be pissed.

 

- Joe

 

oh, wait, did I just post about baseball? I forgot something... the Yankees suck

[okinawaboy11]

I didn't bother reading that. But to answer your question, no I don't care. Sowwie.

 

 

As long as my team is winning, I don't care what steroids are used. The entire team could use them and could care less.

[DejaVu4Life]

The old Home Run record of 61 by Roger Maris should be restored. Sammy Sosa used his corked bat. Mark McGwire out steroided everyone, and then Barry Bonds out steroided him.

[goleafsgo]

its funny that barry bonds actually never tested positive for roids.

[ParkTrips]

... and the pitchers those guys faced were also on the juice ... therefore I say its fair game!

[CoasterFanatic]

I think if anything was "juiced" to help contribute to the HR records, it was the balls!

 

Post-strike baseball needed something quick to pull it out of it's slump ... hence ... the long ball was born.

[Jon Sabo]

Some good viewpoints.

 

Let's turn the tables somewhat. Based on an earlier post, Barry was tested and the legality (or legitimacy) of that test never resulted a "positive" indication (to date). In baseball alone, many (many, many) people hate BB for how he is, acts, and plays the game. Is there a conspiracy theory here?

 

Because, if some of us out there listen to sports radio (specifically Dan Patrick-ESPN) there are some profound statements that could lead towards the theory (although not actually proven-yet). There has been no "official" release of any proof in the matter, but Jose Conseco, and a couple of other news-related issues have come up as of late which can provide some damning evidence against BB. I don't recal the name, but one of the baseball members name listed 12 other players who were on the juice and the government is now in legal proceeding to take further action. And how about the intriguing issue with Conte (Barry's former trainer and friend)? Hmm.

 

What does the government have on Bonds if they are extending the current investigation? Some analysts believe with the events as of today really make the general public and media believe the gov't has found something and Bonds legal team is in the process of "negotiating" some plea-bargain.

 

*Assuming if BB is found guilty of steriods, how will that change his status for the HOF? And, what will baseball do with his current HR streak? Should the records be thrown out? What about past members (McGwire/Sosa)?

 

A discussion (on ESPN) was also brought about in comparison of Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds. Some sports reports (namely LA-Times article as of yesterday), are stating that Lance is the "good" boy because of his cancer-research/charity, his overall image in the public eye, and in most-cases-viewed as a hero (cancer survivor). Mind-you that Lance is, still to this very day, tested for steriods and have yet to test positive for ANY of them.

 

Barry is considered the "bad" boy and his demeanor towards the game of baseball, his action towards his fans (and especially team members) really puts him against the wall. While the testing procedures (for steriod use) is a vague policy at best, does it truly represent who Barry is? Because of his attitude (in general) people appear to already put a "guilty" tag on him (no matter the consequences or how the legal system is supposed to work).

 

Unfortunately, it appears to boil down to the "black and white" issue. Race shouldn't be even an issue (in my opinion) and based on our legal system and so forth, comparing these two individuals shouldn't even be associated in the media. Cycling and baseball are 2 entirely different sports and the way they function. Although I am an avid cyclist and enthusiast of the sport, MLB has much more to loose in terms of fan-base, revenue, and its "image" of the sport as a whole. I really don't care for baseball that much (except playoffs), but I really believe this steriod issue won't go away for a long time (even under the assumption Barry is found guilty or innocent); because it just opens more doors and pressure for Bud Selig to "act" in a manner to help protect his image and the image of baseball. After the fiasco of the strike awhile back, I'm not sure how fans will react with this fiasco.

 

Comments?

[goleafsgo]

good post. although i do think Barry Bonds has admitted to taking steroids, and he is not denying it at all.

 

I dont think you can really throw lance armstrong into this, because his situation is completly different. the French are just pissed that no French people can win the Tour, so theyre just throwing out BS accusations...

 

anyhoo, i actually feel kinda sorry for Barry Bond , i completly agree with you when you say everyone is trying to make him seem like the bad guy, even though hundreds of other players have also taken steroids, although i dont think it has anything to do with race...

[CaseyFish]

Apparently Bonds is quilty until proven innocent....that is a load of crap. Let him play baseball, and until Barry is arrested, kicked out of baseball or fined for steroid use, I don't want to hear anything else. He is still playing ball, his records still stands and that is that.

 

People may say Oh he was in trouble with roids and he just got out of it. Leave the man alone. If he did roids, how come he is passing the tests. Oh he is using someone elses p#ss. I am just tired of all the fans against him. Let him play ball and if it comes up that he did do roids then hey he should be punished.

 

And as for the fan that threw the sirenge on the field a couple of months ago that just shows that our society judges before anything was really found.

 

So what he did roids....fine that get him out of baseball, why is he still there? I am just tired of hearing about this....we just have the metality quilty till proven innocent.

 

Okay I am sure you will all read this on comment on it or whatever...but you know what...I DO NOT CARE!! chop it up all you want call me whatever....Gawd I need another drink....where the hell are the aussies when ya need em!

 

Casey"the weekends here, grab a can o'beer"Childers

 

and yes I stole that from Joe Ardinger:)

[goleafsgo]

i think guilty doesnt have a 'q' in it

[Jon Sabo]

^Only reason why I brought up Lance was because it was a hot topic on the ESPN radio this morning and the LA-Times posted an article, comparing the race card (black vs. white).

 

I personally do not like Barry Bonds (mostly for a lack of being a 'team member'), but I feel the legal system and general public should remember:

Innocent. Until Proven guilty-in the court of law.

[ParkTrips]

Unfortunately, it appears to boil down to the "black and white" issue.

I stopped reading your post once you went 'there'

 

 

i think guilty doesnt have a 'q' in it

I think that was a useless post.

 

Amen Casey!!

[BeemerBoy]

i think steroids are just gnna be part of the game nowadays.

 

Okay, so if that's the case, then why not take the rule book completely out of play? This is completely the wrong mindset to have. What you're saying is that we should just get used to the fact that batters are cheating by juicing up? By that rationale, pitchers should then be allowed to doctor the ball, grounds crews should be allowed to grow the infield grass 6 inches high, surveilance cameras should be positioned on the outfield wall to steal signs, and whatever other method of cheating should just be considered part of the game, huh?

 

Try teaching that to kids. These issues, and the penalizing of the guilty parties is completely warranted to ensure the integrity of the sports we love. Why play any game if the field is allowed to be tilted in someone's favor. Personally, I don't care if it's a witchhunt or not. I wouldn't care if 50% of the current records are wiped out if it serves to put future generations of players on notice.

 

To me, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Bonds juiced at some point in his career. Stevie Wonder could see it!! What I also know is that anything is possible in the world of professional and collegiate athletics. Everything is bottom line motivated, and that's why roids were allowed to spark a dying sport. But nothing lasts forever, and it wouldn't hurt me in the least to see the entire league shut down if everyone was found to have used something at some point in time. Use blue collared beer league replacement players if necessary. Just clean up the sport.

[TheArchfiend]

I just found a transcript between two major league players from the Cleveland Indians regarding steroids:

 

Cerano: "Steroids... I like them very much... But they no help hit curve ball"

 

Harris: "Are you trying to say that steroids can't hit a curveball?"

 

Dorn: "Geez, Harris! Don't start a steroid war!"

 

Harris: "Wouldn't leave them steroids just sitting around with a group like this!" (Ha ha ha)

 

Cerano: "Is very bad to steal Jobu's steroids. Very bad."

 

Harris: "Si si Peed-ro"

 

 

Now I think that transcript speaks volumes about just how much of a joke the steroid policy is in MLB.

 

I think all of Pedro Cerano's home run records should be wiped out of the record books because of the above locker room discussion.

[CaseyFish]

guilty does have a Q in it, esspecially when your drunk don't have your glasses on and can't see the difference or just don't care:)

 

Thanks for reading:)

Casey"Quilty is the way I spell it, yeah baby" Childers

[Jon Sabo]

Unfortunately, it appears to boil down to the "black and white" issue.

I stopped reading your post once you went 'there'

 

 

i think guilty doesnt have a 'q' in it

I think that was a useless post.

 

Amen Casey!!

 

I was not stating that "I" believe it is an issue on black vs. white. I am stating the reports in reference towards (ESPN and the LA-TIMES) articles/discussions that were presented on the 19th and 20th-airings of the show. It has (unfortunately) been 'boiled down to this' as a quote from Keith Oberman and another guest on the show.

[goleafsgo]

i think steroids are just gnna be part of the game nowadays.

 

Okay, so if that's the case, then why not take the rule book completely out of play? This is completely the wrong mindset to have. What you're saying is that we should just get used to the fact that batters are cheating by juicing up? By that rationale, pitchers should then be allowed to doctor the ball, grounds crews should be allowed to grow the infield grass 6 inches high, surveilance cameras should be positioned on the outfield wall to steal signs, and whatever other method of cheating should just be considered part of the game, huh?

 

Try teaching that to kids. These issues, and the penalizing of the guilty parties is completely warranted to ensure the integrity of the sports we love. Why play any game if the field is allowed to be tilted in someone's favor. Personally, I don't care if it's a witchhunt or not. I wouldn't care if 50% of the current records are wiped out if it serves to put future generations of players on notice.

 

To me, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Bonds juiced at some point in his career. Stevie Wonder could see it!! What I also know is that anything is possible in the world of professional and collegiate athletics. Everything is bottom line motivated, and that's why roids were allowed to spark a dying sport. But nothing lasts forever, and it wouldn't hurt me in the least to see the entire league shut down if everyone was found to have used something at some point in time. Use blue collared beer league replacement players if necessary. Just clean up the sport.

 

i think you are taking my post out of context a bit there. i said steroids are going to part of the game because new types of 'roids are being invented before the MLB has a test for the old type.

 

Also, everyone knows that Barry Bonds juiced, but so did hundereds of other players at the same time. Nobody gave a crap about them because they didnt hit 70 HRs or whatever. Half the pitchers Barry faced probably juiced too.

[BeemerBoy]

^ No, I got what you were saying regarding newer and more undetectable drugs being developed. It was the "aw shucks" tone implied that I was trying to point out was the unfortunate approach that too many people take towards the issue. That's why I'd like to see everyone go down alongside Bonds to make a point to future generations. I could care less who is guilty. But if there are, then erase them completely out of the record books.....like they never even stepped foot on the diamond.

 

If the public continues to just shrug their shoulders at cheating, then that's why I said just do away with the rule book altogether, and just encourage an "anything goes" policy.

[ParkTrips]

I was not stating that "I" believe it is an issue on black vs. white. I am stating the reports in reference towards (ESPN and the LA-TIMES) articles/discussions ...

And those ideas were conjured up to capitvate audiences. Controvery sells, by restating it, IMO, that means you at least buy into it somewhat. Therefore I had nothing else left to take from your post and I stopped, sorry if you don't like that. (for the record, I dont read at least half the posts on this site )

 

To me, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Bonds juiced at some point in his career.

yea, but can that rocket scientist prove it? How do you know it isn't just the aftermath of an intense weight regimine?

 

Bonds is a product of himself - not liked by many before any thought of steroid abuse came to the light.

 

Also, keep in mind that even if he DID juice in the mid-90s as he went from speedy to beefy (a transition that could, again, have taken place in the gym), steroids were not illegal then. Why punish him for something that he may not have even done, he will never be proven of, and wasn't even illegal had he done it? Why? 'Cause the media hates Bonds and has been on a witch hunt. What happened to Sosa after his bat incident and McGwire after his Congressional debacle? Nothing, they lost popularity, but they didn't have the media on their cases for years because they were personable dudes that livened baseball.

 

 

As for the "half the pitchers" comment, I'd say thats a more than fair assessment. 52% of players suspended have been pithcers, and with pitchers only comprising 40-45% of a roster, I think its fair to say there is a little bit of a lopsided ratio there. There is a school of thought that the pitchers are more likely to juice because the pressure to perform is greater, the call-up is harder to attain, and that a juiced pitcher still holds an advantage over a juiced batter (remember 73% of the time, the pitcher wins out)

 

So I'm with Ted, y'all should be b***ing about the balls more than anything...

[BeemerBoy]

Also, keep in mind that even if he DID juice in the mid-90s as he went from speedy to beefy (a transition that could, again, have taken place in the gym)

 

C'mon Joe, it's ok to just say he juiced. You may have a valid point about the non-punishment due to lack of a policy against it (even though I could care less if there was or wasn't), but seriously, there's no reason to beat around the bush. Humans simply don't develop like that without "supplements."

 

[ParkTrips]

I just think its unfair to the dude to be guilty without anything other than a reasonable doubt

[goleafsgo]

you shouldnt questio weather or not he juiced. he has admitted it, and everyone know he juiced...

[ParkTrips]

When did he admit it? Give me an article.

 

.. and if you're thinking about the testimony leak in December of 2004, that was never proven to be true (or false, for that matter, as far as I know)