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The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

Page 2218 - Wonder Woman Roller Coaster for 2022!

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60,000 homes? That's insane!

 

I just don't understand this. They spent all that money, what, six years ago, to get that ride re-opened only to have it now sitting there again. Did they just stop maintaining it for the last couple of years and gave it zero attention? I'm guessing the answer is yes.

 

Makes no sense to me. That tower is the icon of the entire Santa Clarita Valley. When you see the Sky Tower off I-5 that's when you you're in the "SCV" and to have it just sitting there rotting, once again, is a real shame.

 

Has Kings Island or Kings Dominion ever gone years without their towers open? What about Elitch's or SFOT? I'm curious. Really, what's SFMM's excuse?

 

Their excuse is that it's too much of a monetary investment repair the elevators and bring them up to newer codes to make any sort of return.

 

Should it have gotten to this state in the first place? No. It's sad actually. It's one of those things that IMO should warrant the investment no matter what.

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Magic mountain really doesnt have an excuse on getting it running again, there is no reason why intamin would stop supporting their product and couldnt repair the elevators and bring them up to code. If anyone they would be the most qualified in my imagination to fix the elevators

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60,000 homes? That's insane!

 

I just don't understand this. They spent all that money, what, six years ago, to get that ride re-opened only to have it now sitting there again. Did they just stop maintaining it for the last couple of years and gave it zero attention? I'm guessing the answer is yes.

 

Makes no sense to me. That tower is the icon of the entire Santa Clarita Valley. When you see the Sky Tower off I-5 that's when you you're in the "SCV" and to have it just sitting there rotting, once again, is a real shame.

 

Has Kings Island or Kings Dominion ever gone years without their towers open? What about Elitch's or SFOT? I'm curious. Really, what's SFMM's excuse?

 

Their excuse is that it's too much of a monetary investment repair the elevators and bring them up to newer codes to make any sort of return.

 

Should it have gotten to this state in the first place? No. It's sad actually. It's one of those things that IMO should warrant the investment no matter what.

 

"Code" doesn't magically change for existing structures. Existing structures are grandfathered in.

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Has Kings Island or Kings Dominion ever gone years without their towers open? What about Elitch's or SFOT? I'm curious. Really, what's SFMM's excuse?

 

The problem with SFMM is that' they're too worried about maintaining the "Roller Coaster Capital of the World" title that they really don't give a crap about anything else. SFMM has settled and apparently is quite satisfied with being mediocre in every aspect with the exception of maintaining their coaster count. Until that changes, that tower is just going to continue to rot away.

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60,000 homes? That's insane!

 

I just don't understand this. They spent all that money, what, six years ago, to get that ride re-opened only to have it now sitting there again. Did they just stop maintaining it for the last couple of years and gave it zero attention? I'm guessing the answer is yes.

 

Makes no sense to me. That tower is the icon of the entire Santa Clarita Valley. When you see the Sky Tower off I-5 that's when you you're in the "SCV" and to have it just sitting there rotting, once again, is a real shame.

 

Has Kings Island or Kings Dominion ever gone years without their towers open? What about Elitch's or SFOT? I'm curious. Really, what's SFMM's excuse?

 

Their excuse is that it's too much of a monetary investment repair the elevators and bring them up to newer codes to make any sort of return.

 

Should it have gotten to this state in the first place? No. It's sad actually. It's one of those things that IMO should warrant the investment no matter what.

 

"Code" doesn't magically change for existing structures. Existing structures are grandfathered in.

 

That's what I thought as well. However I was told that due to it being inoperable for so long as well as it needing a complete overhaul of the elevator system, the elevators would in fact no longer be grandfathered in and would need to meet today's standards. Which ties in to why it could be cost prohibitive to repair.

 

Personally I don't really buy whatever the park's excuse may be. I would love to see it reopened sooner rather than later.

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Hey can someone clarify this for me, when did the sky tower close again? Is this new or have I not noticed? Can someone explain, thanks!!!

It's been several months at least. The elevators are in a state of disrepair (and reportedly not up to code) and the park has been so far unable to find anyone either willing or qualified to fix them due to their unique nature. As far as I know there has been no decision made to close it permanently, but there's also no estimate for if or when they might reopen. Basically SBNO.

I just don't understand this. They spent all that money, what, six years ago, to get that ride re-opened only to have it now sitting there again. Did they just stop maintaining it for the last couple of years and gave it zero attention? I'm guessing the answer is yes.

 

Makes no sense to me. That tower is the icon of the entire Santa Clarita Valley. When you see the Sky Tower off I-5 that's when you you're in the "SCV" and to have it just sitting there rotting, once again, is a real shame.

 

Has Kings Island or Kings Dominion ever gone years without their towers open? What about Elitch's or SFOT? I'm curious. Really, what's SFMM's excuse?

 

Back when I was covering the park in the mid 2000's the tower, much as it does now, would go down for years at a time. I was told by several people that the cost of maintenance and operation made it a difficult ride to keep open. Not really sure why the ride is so difficult to keep open, it's not like an elevator is the most sophisticated piece of equipment in the park. Also I had heard that the park didn't like making three employees available to run the ride, especially considering that the park often has staffing issues.

 

Honestly I never understood the extreme difficulty the park had keeping the tower open. I'm guessing it will reopen in 2016, stay open until part way through the 2018 season, and then be closed into the early part of the next decade, and we will have this discussion all over again.

 

EDIT: A few other notes I'll throw out there. In terms of the tower elevator needing a complete overhaul, I've always been at least somewhat dubious about that. While I'm sure there is work that needs to be done on it, the fact remains that this isn't the first time the tower has gone down for an extended time. I know it was down for a long time back in the late 90's early 2000's. Back at that point I recall the rumor floating out there that removal was possible. It went through another extended closure a few years ago before reopening with the museum up there. My guess is that this isn't an overhaul we're talking about, rather the park simply doesn't want to pay basic maintenance costs, or there is another issue that we're not aware of.

 

As far as the new development behind the park, that has been in the work for a LONG time. That was an issue back in the early 2000's (though now it appears substantially further along). I always assumed it would eventually happen. That being said, I also assumed that the SFMM "citywalk" style project and hotel would eventually happen, so it shows what I know.

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The biggest problem with Sky Tower is that it's not a coaster, or anything else that could be marketable. About 15ish years ago, that park completely lost track of how people came there for more than just coasters. There used to be numerous local families that saw the park as a very good local alternative to a place like Disneyland 60ish miles away. The longer that went on, the less those families and anyone else came to see anything but coasters until that's all anybody went for. It's become a vicious cycle that has lasted since the "Xtreme Park" days.

 

Back in 2006, there was a small effort made to break through that ice and remake Sky Tower as an attraction in the form of a museum. But there were problems that emerged and eventually the efforts to keep that idea going stopped being made. So now, the Sky Tower is basically back to where it was before all that happened. It's back to SBNO, and who knows if any efforts to restore it will go through again after the perceived "failure" of the museum.

 

One of the biggest problems Sky Tower will always have is its location in the park. Given how it's not marketable, people basically have to stumble across it on their own. Sky Tower is at the very top of the steepest hill in the park. There's no way to get up there besides people's own effort, and the funicular. It's not on the way to/from any big draw attractions. Some people might make the effort to go up there, and did, but not the majority. So that lack of foot traffic and lack of marketability are two big hurdles in front of any project to restore/reopen Sky Tower.

 

Makes no sense to me. That tower is the icon of the entire Santa Clarita Valley. When you see the Sky Tower off I-5 that's when you you're in the "SCV" and to have it just sitting there rotting, once again, is a real shame.

 

Oh I have to believe the city council here absolutely hates that. How could they not? But since the park is outside the city limits, and they previously sold the entire park including the Sky Tower to Six Flags, there isn't a darn thing they can do about it. Previously the City has offered to annex the land the park sits on and extend various tax breaks and whatever to help the park have a chance to do things like restore the Sky Tower, but it hasn't happened. Unfortunately those kinds of decisions are not up to the park. It has more to do with laws and procedures involving annexing unincorporated LA County land. So it is what it is, and you're 100% right about it being a real shame. Probably back in the early 80s when Santa Clarita first became a city, nobody saw such neglect as a possibility. It's sad because a lot things could have been done differently to prevent it.

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However I was told that due to it being inoperable for so long as well as it needing a complete overhaul of the elevator system

This photo was taken in March 2013 during YOLO's construction. It hasn't been inoperable THAT long!

I'm curious to know when exactly the tower actually stopped operating. None of the stories we keep hearing seem to add up.

 

Back in 2006, there was a small effort made to break through that ice and remake Sky Tower as an attraction in the form of a museum.

FYI - it was 2008. The park debuted it for us during the 2008 West Coast Bash. (Photos in the park index!)

Edited by robbalvey
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I'm by no means an expert on outdoor elevators, especially in California, but I do know how much Otis used to cost us each month for maintenance on indoor elevators that reached 9 stories. It was just around 8k a month. They would come out, and PM the elevators at regular intervals and whenever needed to fix buttons, lights, etc. And as it often happens a generator blew up which resulted in the need for replacement, all covered under the service contract.

 

So the big question that comes to my mind is: Does the state consider those elevators an amusement attraction or do they fall under the purview of California Department of Industrial Relations (according to the regulation link below, in theory it should be the CDIR) If the later, I wouldn't think it would be that hard to get and keep a maintenance contract with someone like OTIS. In many states you are not allowed to perform the maintenance yourself and it must be done by a certified party.

 

The Law

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The biggest problem with Sky Tower is that it's not a coaster, or anything else that could be marketable. About 15ish years ago, that park completely lost track of how people came there for more than just coasters. There used to be numerous local families that saw the park as a very good local alternative to a place like Disneyland 60ish miles away. The longer that went on, the less those families and anyone else came to see anything but coasters until that's all anybody went for. It's become a vicious cycle that has lasted since the "Xtreme Park" days.

 

Back in 2006, there was a small effort made to break through that ice and remake Sky Tower as an attraction in the form of a museum. But there were problems that emerged and eventually the efforts to keep that idea going stopped being made. So now, the Sky Tower is basically back to where it was before all that happened. It's back to SBNO, and who knows if any efforts to restore it will go through again after the perceived "failure" of the museum.

 

One of the biggest problems Sky Tower will always have is its location in the park. Given how it's not marketable, people basically have to stumble across it on their own. Sky Tower is at the very top of the steepest hill in the park. There's no way to get up there besides people's own effort, and the funicular. It's not on the way to/from any big draw attractions. Some people might make the effort to go up there, and did, but not the majority. So that lack of foot traffic and lack of marketability are two big hurdles in front of any project to restore/reopen Sky Tower.

 

Makes no sense to me. That tower is the icon of the entire Santa Clarita Valley. When you see the Sky Tower off I-5 that's when you you're in the "SCV" and to have it just sitting there rotting, once again, is a real shame.

 

Oh I have to believe the city council here absolutely hates that. How could they not? But since the park is outside the city limits, and they previously sold the entire park including the Sky Tower to Six Flags, there isn't a darn thing they can do about it. Previously the City has offered to annex the land the park sits on and extend various tax breaks and whatever to help the park have a chance to do things like restore the Sky Tower, but it hasn't happened. Unfortunately those kinds of decisions are not up to the park. It has more to do with laws and procedures involving annexing unincorporated LA County land. So it is what it is, and you're 100% right about it being a real shame. Probably back in the early 80s when Santa Clarita first became a city, nobody saw such neglect as a possibility. It's sad because a lot things could have been done differently to prevent it.

 

So if SFMM and S&S-Sansei were able to find an innovative way to incorporate the existing sky tower structure into an awesome version of a SkyPlex Coaster perhaps it will draw folks to the location and permit/make investing money into the tower more realistic while granting an opportunity for a record breaking attraction at the same time.

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So if SFMM and S&S-Sansei were able to find an innovative way to incorporate the existing sky tower structure into an awesome version of a SkyPlex Coaster perhaps it will draw folks to the location and permit/make investing money into the tower more realistic while granting an opportunity for a record breaking attraction at the same time.

 

Turning the Sky Tower into a poler coaster is a fantastic idea! That would really be awesome to see.

Edited by PeoplemoverMatt
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I'm by no means an expert on outdoor elevators, especially in California, but I do know how much Otis used to cost us each month for maintenance on indoor elevators that reached 9 stories. It was just around 8k a month. They would come out, and PM the elevators at regular intervals and whenever needed to fix buttons, lights, etc. And as it often happens a generator blew up which resulted in the need for replacement, all covered under the service contract.

 

So the big question that comes to my mind is: Does the state consider those elevators an amusement attraction or do they fall under the purview of California Department of Industrial Relations (according to the regulation link below, in theory it should be the CDIR) If the later, I wouldn't think it would be that hard to get and keep a maintenance contract with someone like OTIS. In many states you are not allowed to perform the maintenance yourself and it must be done by a certified party.

 

The Law

 

Problem is, Otis doesn't work for free. SFMM probably doesn't have OR want to spend the money required to update permits and maintain a service contract. Seems to me that the park is just taking the "easy way out" and just pretending the Sky Tower is not there.

Edited by DJeXeL
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So if SFMM and S&S-Sansei were able to find an innovative way to incorporate the existing sky tower structure into an awesome version of a SkyPlex Coaster perhaps it will draw folks to the location and permit/make investing money into the tower more realistic while granting an opportunity for a record breaking attraction at the same time.

 

Turning the Sky Tower into a polar coaster is a fantastic idea! That would really be awesome to see.

Uhh, I'm not sure how I'd feel about that.

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LOL, that tower was not designed to do anything other then its currently doing. Given its age as well, they'd have to tear it down and rebuild it to add a pole coaster. Which isn't a bad idea. At least then, the tower would be open again and have two attractions on it instead of just one. But i'm sure it'd be fairly difficult to do such a thing. Being on a mountain and all, in earthquake country, and having a SIGNIFICANTLY wider footprint then the current tower.

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Problem is, Otis doesn't work for free. SFMM probably doesn't have OR want to spend the money required to update permits and maintain a service contract. Seems to me that the park is just taking the "easy way out" and just pretending the Sky Tower is not there.
That's exactly what I was wondering. It was originally built by Intamin and I'm told that Intamin "can't" fix it (that could mean they decline to, or MM wont pay for it, etc) and I immediately thought of OTIS. I know they didn't build it, but there's no more expert on elevators of any kind in the world than they, and surely they would be able to figure out a way to fix it if MM wanted to pay for it, and I suspect that they don't.

 

This got brought up several pages back and at that time I was also discussing the polar coaster idea. Obviously thats a hell of a lot more expensive, but also a lot more marketable. It's possible they're already considering it, and it does kind of fit their M.O. if you think about it. The left side of Colossus sat absolutely neglected for at least 2 years before it closed and we all speculated about an RMC makeover. It probably just wasnt used for a while and at some point they started talking in earnest about the RMC makeover and decided it to just leave the left side be. If MM was considering a Polar Coaster or a new tower of any kind, it would make sense that they would close it now and not want to spend the money to overhaul it. I don't think they would ever get rid of the tower altogether without replacing it.

 

Of course they might just be cheap, too

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Robb. I was up in the tower during WCB 2013, early September, but when I went back in January 2014 it was closed, and has been closed ever since....

Interesting...

 

Let me clarify. Lol. Been there 8 times since then last time was thanksgiving weekend

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This got brought up several pages back and at that time I was also discussing the polar coaster idea. Obviously thats a hell of a lot more expensive, but also a lot more marketable. It's possible they're already considering it, and it does kind of fit their M.O. if you think about it. The left side of Colossus sat absolutely neglected for at least 2 years before it closed and we all speculated about an RMC makeover. It probably just wasnt used for a while and at some point they started talking in earnest about the RMC makeover and decided it to just leave the left side be. If MM was considering a Polar Coaster or a new tower of any kind, it would make sense that they would close it now and not want to spend the money to overhaul it. I don't think they would ever get rid of the tower altogether without replacing it.

 

Of course they might just be cheap, too

 

As with any business, capital budgeting is more a function of proper timing rather than simple wants and needs. There's a huge decision-making process behind that timing, all during which plans can/will be changed.

 

The poler coaster idea is a neat idea, but more wishful thinking than anything. There would have to be a ton of structural modification done that could send the idea into cost-prohibitive land real quick. At this point it would probably take an outside company agreeing to sponsor the Sky Tower and cover the costs of restoring & maintaining it for it to be open regularly.

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It was just an idea... but I don't think it is as farfetched as some are quick to jump too. I don't see a reason to think they tower its somehow structurally inadequate... A few years ago people thought adding a drop tower onto the existing Superman Ride was impossible or somehow structurally impossible yet it was done... we also have seen a situation where Kingda Ka had structural mods done to the existing tower. I'd feel like there is a way to make it happen if the park wanted to. I also think S&S could figure it out.

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I feel like mm always does this. They close a ride for a while then reopen- close again and then removes it or changes it in some form or another. They don't like to spend too much money on an older ride if they are planning to change it. It kind of sucks, I enjoy observation towers with great views for pictures

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